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The only part I hate about the Sisters fluff is the Martyrdom aspect. I don't really hate it so much as I hate the fact that it's so damn overblown to the point of stupidity.

I know every living thing in the imperium is loyal to the Emperor and all that Jazz. What I mean is the people within the army can have a certain looseness. For example Space Wolves because they don't follow the code that other SM follow and instead follow their own belief system. Some armies in the Imperium are way more compansionate towards life. Sisters and the Inqusition on the other hand will just kill you if they feel for any reason you have done something wrong. They will hunt their own kind need be.

sabastian thor has his own cult if i remember correctly

Actually Sebastian Thor's cult (in the sense of the one he started, which later declared him a Living Saint) IS the modern Ecclesiarchy. The old Imperial Cult, referred to now as "Temple Tendency", is illegal and heretical, and still believe Vandire was the last true Ecclesiarch... and they absolutely despise the Sisters.

Shabutie wrote:Everyone keeps saying the Sisters shouldn't be included in a combined 'dex and I don't understand why. If they weren't working closely with the Witch Hunters to find heresy, what would they do to justify them fighting all the other armies?

I mean, Grey Knights technically aren't Inquisition, they just have the same goals so they work hand-in-hand with each other, much like SoB and WH. I hope that they are in the same codex, so that I can make use of my mixed Sisters/GK force.

There is a very huge difference between the relationship of Grey Knights and Ordo Malleus and that of the Sororitas and Ordo Hereticus. The Grey Knights are the EXCLUSIVE militant arm of the Malleus, both have their home bases on Saturn's moons, and at least one if not several Grand Masters are members of the highest level of the Ordo Malleus. The only reason there is any separation between the two organizations is because as Space Marines, Grey Knights have the Emperor's mandate of autonomy (but seeing as the word of the Ordo is the word of the Emperor, the distinction is largely symbolic).

The Sororitas, on the other hand, have absolutely no official ties to the Ordo Hereticus. They are the militant arm of the Ministorum (who also happen to have their own witch hunters, completely unrelated to the Ordos). The Ordo Hereticus frequently uses them only because of the subject matter of the crimes and heresies they investigate (just like they do Arbites), and because the Ministorum is one of the organizations they specifically keep tabs on (they were created for that express purpose).

To put it in other words, whereas Malleus/Grey Knights are like Police/SWAT, Hereticus/Sororitas are like Police/Highway Patrol. The first pairing are part of the same department, while the second are two completely different organizations that may collaborate when their jurisdictions overlaps.

Melissia wrote:Actually Sebastian Thor's cult (in the sense of the one he started, which later declared him a Living Saint) IS the modern Ecclesiarchy. The old Imperial Cult, referred to now as "Temple Tendency", is illegal and heretical, and still believe Vandire was the last true Ecclesiarch... and they absolutely despise the Sisters.

this i didn't know, seriously thank you for this bit of infomation

Terminus wrote:
The Sororitas, on the other hand, have absolutely no official ties to the Ordo Hereticus. They are the militant arm of the Ministorum (who also happen to have their own witch hunters, completely unrelated to the Ordos). The Ordo Hereticus frequently uses them only because of the subject matter of the crimes and heresies they investigate (just like they do Arbites), and because the Ministorum is one of the organizations they specifically keep tabs on (they were created for that express purpose).
snip

Obviously you are blatantly ignorant of the actual fluff. I feel sorry for your parents' disappointment in their idiot child. Pass along my condolences.

Amusingly enough, you're also not 100% on the fluff. The Ordo doesn't just use them because of the subject matter. As part of the Decree Passive that removed all 'Men at Arms' after the Reign of Blood, the Sisters only were allowed to continue existing for two reasons:

1) They aren't technically 'men' at arms
2) They agreed to work for the Ordo H in the future in exchange for the Inquisitorial Rep on the High Lords not stirring up crap over it. (Mmm. Blackmail)

So, it was about 8k years ago (I think M32) that the sisters were strong armed into being with the Ordo H. (Source: Old arse SOB Codex, 2nd Edition)

No, you're quite wrong.

The Convocation of Nephilim wasn't blackmail. It was merely an agreement for two organizations with similar goals to help eachother out. The Sisters are, and have always been the army of the Ecclesiarchy first and foremost.

pretre wrote:Amusingly enough, you're also not 100% on the fluff. The Ordo doesn't just use them because of the subject matter. As part of the Decree Passive that removed all 'Men at Arms' after the Reign of Blood, the Sisters only were allowed to continue existing for two reasons:

1) They aren't technically 'men' at arms
2) They agreed to work for the Ordo H in the future in exchange for the Inquisitorial Rep on the High Lords not stirring up crap over it. (Mmm. Blackmail)

So, it was about 8k years ago (I think M32) that the sisters were strong armed into being with the Ordo H. (Source: Old arse SOB Codex, 2nd Edition)

That WOULD be amusing, if it was true. No such "strong arming" or "blackmail" is necessary for the Inquisition. Their authority is limitless, stretching all the way to the High Lords of Terra.

Since the Ordo Hereticus was newly created specifically after these events to curtail future abuses by the Ministorum, the Convocation of Nephilim was primarily a symbolic document to underline that this new organization is indeed an extention of the Holy Orders of the Emperor's Inquisition, that the Sororitas are answerable not only to the Ministorum, and that the new Ordo will be keeping an extra close eye on them for any shenanigans.

edit: gah, ninja'd by Melissia. Do you have a chip implanted in your head that goes off whenever anyone anywhere mentions the Sororitas?

Melissia wrote:No, you're quite wrong.

The Convocation of Nephilim wasn't blackmail. It was merely an agreement for two organizations with similar goals to help eachother out. The Sisters are, and have always been the army of the Ecclesiarchy first and foremost.

lol, so you're the one people keep talking in reference to BOLS and SOB. welcome to dakka! @134 posts in the less than 24 hours since signing up, you might actually give gwar a run for his money in the most posts this week tally!

Yeah. I've had a lot of time on my hands recently, babysitting this brat while I wait for classes to start in august. Put out a bunch of job applications, but I doubt any of them will respond. The job market is flooded with "unskilled" labor here.

Terminus wrote:gah, ninja'd by Melissia. Do you have a chip implanted in your head that goes off whenever anyone anywhere mentions the Sororitas?

I might as well...

Did you remember to put down the Ordo Hereticus as a reference?

The Ordo Hereticus doesn't like me because I told them they suck in battle.

And then proved it by whipping their asses time and time again.

Terminus wrote:

pretre wrote:
1) They aren't technically 'men' at arms
2) They agreed to work for the Ordo H in the future in exchange for the Inquisitorial Rep on the High Lords not stirring up crap over it. (Mmm. Blackmail)

So, it was about 8k years ago (I think M32) that the sisters were strong armed into being with the Ordo H. (Source: Old arse SOB Codex, 2nd Edition)

That WOULD be amusing, if it was true. No such "strong arming" or "blackmail" is necessary for the Inquisition. Their authority is limitless, stretching all the way to the High Lords of Terra.

Prepare to be amused... (I was wrong about the book, btw)

3rd Ed Witch Hunters Codex wrote:
The Convocation stated that the Orders Militatnt of the Adepta Sororitas would place themselves at the disposal of the Ordo Hereticus whenever called to do so by a duly appointed Inquisitor, forming the Chamber Militant of the Witch Hunters. The Sisterhood would remain under the auspices of the Ecclesiarchy on a day-to-day basis and retain the rights and responsbilities granted to them by Sebastian Thor.

It is postulated by some that this move came about because the High Lords of Terra, in particular The Inquisitorial Representative to the Senatorum Imperialis, would not simply stand by and allow the Ecclesiarchy to flout the spirit, if not the letter, of the Decree Passive. Under the terms of the Con of Neph, the E would retain the SoB as a fighting force, and the newly formed Ordo Hereticus would acquire an unswervingly loyal Chamber Militant.

Speculation by paranoid politicians isn't exactly my idea of fact.

Right, so like I said before, it's a pure formality. The entire Imperium is "at the disposal [of] a duly appointed Inquisitor".

If they have so much power and think that the Blood Angels are slightly chaotic due to Sanguinius and his wings, what stops them from calling them or any other Imperial force heritics and killing them?

Terminus wrote:The entire Imperium is "at the disposal [of] a duly appointed Inquisitor".

Exactly.

Nobzey wrote:If they have so much power and think that the Blood Angels are slightly chaotic due to Sanguinius and his wings, what stops them from calling them or any other Imperial force heritics and killing them?

Because of the repercussions for doing so?

It's the same reason why they got on Kryptman's case when he was destroying whole worlds to "lead" the Tyranids.

Just because you have the power, doesn't mean using it is the best idea at the time. I would imagine it is better for the Blood Angels to be fighting for the imperium, not against it.

Nobzey wrote:If they have so much power and think that the Blood Angels are slightly chaotic due to Sanguinius and his wings, what stops them from calling them or any other Imperial force heritics and killing them?

Because for the most part the Blood Angels do what they are told, and it would take a whole lot of resources to marshal a large enough Imperial Navy and Astartes force to breach their planetary defenses. You don't put down a good guard-dog just because it's occasionally unruly.

And the Inquisition is quite divided on the nature of Sanguinius' wings, not to mention they aren't fully aware of all the shenanigans going on on Baal.

Nobzey wrote:If they have so much power and think that the Blood Angels are slightly chaotic due to Sanguinius and his wings, what stops them from calling them or any other Imperial force heritics and killing them?

The power of the Inquisition varies from Inquisitor to Inquisitor-- similarly, so does the PHILOSOPHY of the Inquisition.

Also, Blood Angels are quite celebrated. After all, theirs is the only primarch to be declared a Saint of the Imperium. So it's in the Inquisition's best interest to work with them as long as their heresy doesn't get too out of hand.

Every single thread which mentions SOB will now turn into this.. Was easier to ignore BOLS :(

Pssst----
(what does BOLS stand for)

Bell of Lost Souls.

Bell of Lost Souls?

Another forum/WH site I believe

Edit: Ninja-ed. Dang Melissa, do you just hit the refresh button on this thread?

Ahh.
What really? Pure WH?

Melissia wrote:

Nobzey wrote:If they have so much power and think that the Blood Angels are slightly chaotic due to Sanguinius and his wings, what stops them from calling them or any other Imperial force heritics and killing them?

The power of the Inquisition varies from Inquisitor to Inquisitor-- similarly, so does the PHILOSOPHY of the Inquisition.

Also, Blood Angels are quite celebrated. After all, theirs is the only primarch to be declared a Saint of the Imperium. So it's in the Inquisition's best interest to work with them as long as their heresy doesn't get too out of hand.

not to mention that a half dozen chapters would probably revolt if they went against the BA (i.e. their successors). i'm sure the prideful successors would take a personal offense at an =I= on their ancestor chapter.

VikingScott wrote:Ahh.
What really? Pure WH?

It's not pure WH (not even close). It just happens to have lots of sister players.
But it talks about all armies and posts lots of articles.

Sorry for the confusion, by WH, meant Warhammer, not Witch Hunter.

Ah ok.
Im staying in safe dakka!