Inquisition Changes/Codex Rumors?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Terminus**

Actually, I'm with Vhalyar on this one. As far as GW is concerned, all those armies are NOT Space Marines, but are indeed separate armies. Whatever taxonomic classification you wish to apply to them is largely irrelevant to the topic on hand (that being the spread of releases), otherwise we may as well just lump Craftword and Dark Eldar into one homogenous mass.

So yes, FULLY HALF of the armies are Imperial, so it shouldn't be a huge shocker that half the releases are Imperial. And anyway, 40K is about the Imperium; they are the protagonist.

**Sidstyler**

That's a bit irrelevant though. I don't see why being the protagonist makes it okay for them to focus all of their attention on Imperial releases and throwing xenos players a bone only now and then, my money is just as good as there's, and this is a game after all...the idea is for it to be fair and fun for everyone, not just the "good guys".

**Vhalyar**

Terminus wrote:lump Craftword and Dark Eldar into one homogenous mass.

Well played!

And Sidstyler, this is not just about the Imperium being the protagonists; it's also about the Space Marines armies selling so overwhelmingly more than the others. They don't just have explosive day 1 sales, they have legs and will keep selling well extremely for a long time, unlike non-Marines (with certain exceptions). Like it or not SM are the backbone of 40k and intricately tied with the sales of side products such as books. Honestly I always find it hilarious when people blame GW for this; if you had to blame someone, it would be the fans (are we going to criticize people's tastes now?) and the thousands of kids and their impulse buys. GW is only catering to what the majority wants (and forums most certainly don't represent the majority, don't get fooled).

And let's be frank, these individual SM armies have been around for a while now. They are just as worthy as *Insert Xenos* of having their codex updated. Now someone is going to call me a GW apologist for simply stating the truth, won't I?

Not quite the right topic for this kind of discussion though.

**Deep Throat**

Terminus wrote:Oh me too, but on the plus side, their current list is actually pretty competitive (just boring, much like Dark Angels), and there is nothing stopping you from using the models to represent a Space Marines force (you just can't have terminators).

Good to hear some positive words on Sisters, and didn't know that they could also be reasonably used as Space Marines. I admit I've been worried about the discontinuations though. Can it be assumed that most of the current models (aside from the Repentia and SoB squad boxes) will continue to be available while the army isn't being updated? Only reason I ask is that I've read rumors of more than just these two sets being unavailable.

**Shabutie**

Luke_Prowler wrote:
Archonate wrote:On topic: I agree that GKs are currently one of the most unplayable armies and definitely need an update. Their list, more or less, adds up to over priced marines that die just as easy as cheap marines.

*headdesk* That's why you use Stormtroopers as filler. DH is not an unplayable army, it only becomes a problem when people try to play pure GKs and they expect it to play like normal space marines.

I assure you, DH are close enough to unplayable; the fifth edition negates a number of special rules that make the GK worth having, special equipment is left purposeless against the latest Codices, and the points cost alone makes it so that you will be outnumbered several times over, with a force incapable of facing off with the enemy anyways. Stormtroopers fill the gaps only so far. They don't have the gear or the weapons to contend with the tougher monsters, and really lack the abilities to be any more than bullet stops for the Grey Knights.

I, for one, am more excited about an update to the Grey Knights than am about plastics. I just want to be able to play with my favorite army.

**TheRavenWolf**

I don't know much about releases but I'm guessing Grey Knights would probably be round christmas because then they can sell new grey knight stuff, the storm raven and maybe even stormtroopers or something to appeal to 3 armies. Just my thoughts though

**Bloodhorror**

well seeing as there releasing a load of Chaos Daemon Models in Like August time, there gonna have there hands full with Another wave of models to follow suite aren't they :S?

**Kroothawk**

Harry has spoken:

If pressed I would say GK will be early 2011
I posted this somewhere on here back in March maybe the start of April.
Putting the pieces together I have been increasingly sure about this since then.

But dark Eldar ARE released in the autumn.

All hail the Pie man, most trusted rumour source over at Warseer.

**bhsman**

Kroothawk wrote:Harry has spoken:

If pressed I would say GK will be early 2011
I posted this somewhere on here back in March maybe the start of April.
Putting the pieces together I have been increasingly sure about this since then.

But dark Eldar ARE released in the autumn.

All hail the Pie man, most trusted rumour source over at Warseer.

And I say the Pie Man is wrong.

**Kroothawk**

In what way? DE or GK?

**bhsman**

I don't think we'll have to wait until next year to see the Grey Knights in some form.

EDIT: And I say this not with some GW higher-up whispering in my ear, it's guesswork looking at the recent history of how GW has released army updates and what it looks like now both for Dark Eldar and Grey Knights/Inquisition.

**physcosamatic**

i demand one big huge book of inquisition, BURN THE WITCH, MUTANT AND HERETIC

it would e crazy, you could have greyknights or sob or inq soldiers or even deathwatch!, but gw are not that awesome so expect a cheesy unfluffy sob gk and inq codex releases>.> now thats heresy!!

**Terminus**

Well, GW hasn't done a decent "huge" book since 2nd edition (now THOSE were some codexes!).

With their current business model, I do NOT want a combined Inquisition book, as it means one of two things:

1. The various Ordos are mutually exclusive, so each one is as limited in choice as they are now.
2. The various Ordos can be mixed, and with the usual GW method of having one or two options per FOC slot that just rock out, we'll get terrible amalgam lists of Deathwatch elites and Malleus troops, with Seraphim filling out the fast attack section.

**Archonate**

Vhalyar wrote:And Sidstyler, this is not just about the Imperium being the protagonists; it's also about the Space Marines armies selling so overwhelmingly more than the others. They don't just have explosive day 1 sales, they have legs and will keep selling well extremely for a long time, unlike non-Marines (with certain exceptions).

I think what Sid is saying applies directly to this ^.
How popular an army is should be irrelevant to how much attention from GW that army receives, in a game where balance is so fundamental. Imagine how awesome any given MMORPG would be if one faction was given more than the others, just because it's more popular. There's a reason no other game in existence does this. It is a horrible business model. Game manufacturers strive to give ALL paying customers equal treatment. Except GW. No, for some reason, they are justified and awesome for not doing so...

The question is: Would Space Marine sales really go down if all armies got equal attention?
The answer: SM sales, maybe... 40k sales overall, however, would either remain the same, or go up.

My point: Why try so hard to get SM player money when they could easily have SM and non-SM player money? SMs getting less attention doesn't necessarily mean fewer SM sales... Though I'm sure there are a number of people who might have chosen other armies if SMs weren't so pushed, but that's irrelevant since GW gets their money either way.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Again I read the bs about 'marines are the best selling models cos they are the best, so they deserve the best!'.

Space Marines sell more than anything else because they are a self fulfilling prophecy. GW puts them valiantly murdering everything else on the covers and artwork everywhere. They then produce a comprehensive range for them and maintain such a range with regularly updated codices for not just the vanilla marines, but several variant armies. Whilst all other ranges have suffered from long waits for models for certain choices or vastly overdue updates to old and fugly models or just from a very limited range, Astartes have had a continued heavy investment and therefore enjoy the healthiest returns.

It's. That. Fething. Simple.

GW shrugs and says 'that's where the money is' because that's where they've spent the money in the past. So, books, posters, the big statue outside the GW HQ, now a movie... All about the marines. Not to cater to demand so much as fuel it.

**physcosamatic**

Terminus wrote:Well, GW hasn't done a decent "huge" book since 2nd edition (now THOSE were some codexes!).

With their current business model, I do NOT want a combined Inquisition book, as it means one of two things:

1. The various Ordos are mutually exclusive, so each one is as limited in choice as they are now.
2. The various Ordos can be mixed, and with the usual GW method of having one or two options per FOC slot that just rock out, we'll get terrible amalgam lists of Deathwatch elites and Malleus troops, with Seraphim filling out the fast attack section.

there would be set boundary's, to take sob you have to have a canoness or gk you need daemon hunter inq lord or gk hero or deathwatch require ordo xenos commander ect. but i can see the cheese waves of cheese if they didn't balance it to perfection

**Kroothawk**

Taken from another thread in 40k General http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/quote/0/1585016.page
Form your own opinion on these rumours:

Beerfart wrote:I got this info during a three way discussion with a buddy of mine and a friend of his...who's involved in game design. People will refute these "rumours" and thats cool, take this with a grain of salt if you wish. You Grey Knight fans though, I know you want news and I'm here to tell you that there's hope.

I wasnt really paying attention to the "Inquisition" part. Instead I mainly payed attention to the Grey Knight info. Just a couple of little tidbits though...

-Allies rules are indeed gone. No more mystics for you guard players. In fact...none for anybody.

-Inquisitorial stormtroopers brought in-line with Guard ST's.

-Somehow, assassins cannot be used in Grey Knight armies.

-Inquisitor's psychic powers have been boosted significantly, they're really powerful characters now able to wreak havoc BUT they're pretty easy to kill still...still human w/T3. They're really extreme with the ability to rival some of the Special Characters out there in power but with the survivability of Guardsmen with 4+ invuln's. You can still get terminator armour for them but you TRADE your 4+ invuln for Terminator armour for 2+/5++. Basically, you cannot make a tank out of them. Mystics are GONE BTW. I was surprised at this. Daemonhunter's cannont shoot down any old deepstriking thing anymore.

Now, where I was REALLY interested, and kept the guy talking for a while was with the Grey Knights. I hope I got most of this right, I never wrote any down but the jist of the conversation is here...

-"Shrouding" is now as-per night fighting rules. Infantry only gain effect.

-I wasnt able to get any info on the bonuses against daemons, but the "without number" rules are still there for core units and changed just a little bit. The rule isnt the same but it still represents how Grey Knight daemon/chaos drop sites (yes chaos lesser daemons are included) are normally highly infested and there is indeed a problem that warrents them being there.

-No Changes to Grey Knight Weaponry other than stated below. Incinerators are the same, Psycannons are same except for now they're simply Assault Weapons.

-ALL Grey Knights are able to use their SB's in CC now. They also get their charge bonus.

-Nemesis Weapons on power armoured knights are str 6 still, but now RENDING. Justicar loses his power weapon status and is now just Rending with an add'l attack for his SGT status

-The Generic big commander, Grand Master (but with name change), his Nemesis is not simply a Force Weapon, BUT "Demonic Nemesis" rules state that it can Kill Daemons like a Force Weapon can kill non-EW multi-wound Models.

-Terminator Nemesis weapons are still power weapons, but keep in mind...they can use their stormbolters now in CC.

-Storm Sheilds brought in line with SM codex. Terminators can trade SB's for Sheilds for +5pts. Nemesis' can be traded for T-Hamm for free....wierd.

-Storm Ravens are a Heavy support Choice. StormRavens are able to get Scout somehow, but not in their selection. Maybe another Special Character or some Grand Master skill or peice of Wargear or something allows it. No other Scouting or Infiltration availiable in the army. Deepstriking only.

-Dreadnoughts now an Elite Choice, ONLY elites though. Psychic Upgrade availiable but at two levels, think Epistolary/Codicier. (of course, since every Grey Knight is supposed to be a Psycher)

-LR's, now out of the HS slot, Dedicated only now A-la, blood angels. No rhino's, chimera's or razorbacks for Grey Knights still.

-Terminators are Elite OR HQ Retinue still...same as before. Of course this all enables 3xstormraven/Dreadnought and 2xTermi squads at the same time, but you're paying some steep cost in points.

-In a strange twist, PA Grey Knights in the FA selection slot can now have jump packs. Divine Intervention as well. They can still deepstrike however. Dunno (forgot to ask) if Divine Intervention will apply to deepstriking. It would make sense I suppose...possibly giving you a reason to have a choice between JP's(advantage in Stormraven) or deep strike (advantage to deepstriking below)

-Brother Captain Stern is MUCH like Mephiston. Powerful Psyker, more than normal wounds for a character(either 4or5), Non-IC, T5, 2+/4++, His "RR power" is now a psychic ability turning into a sort of "Warptime" allowing him to RR his hits/wounds/saves/Ld/Ect but with no bonus for the enemy like last time. I suppose thats because it can be nullified now. His price is right around Mephiston level. His "Demonic Nemesis" rules also extend to ANY IC. Basically, his Nemesis can still Slay Eternal Warriors of any type. They're really plugging this Character...he's the "big daddy" in the codex. Sort of a prodigy of Grey Knighthood that even surpasses the Grand Masters in skill.

-"Holocaust". No more "unit" casting for the terminators...only skillful characters can use this one. Can be cast during shooting AND CC if the character is able to throw two powers a turn. Essentially, its an incinerator blast with a 3"+d3 that hits FRIEND AND FOE. AP4, no Cover, No Invuln.

-Sgt Types can be upgraded for psychic abilities too (apparently, they "focus" the squad's psychic abilities like a lens), if they die, no more Phychics for the squad. RR's to hit for unit. This to hit can be for CC OR for shooting. I found out about it when I asked if Purgation squads were still availiable and if they did anything to make them better. He responded with this, five possible weapon upgrades, and the fact that cost went down for the upgrades just a bit to make them more useful. Speaking of that, upgrading incinerators and psycannons sounds like GW realises that you GIVE UP Nemesis weapons for these options...the cost for the weapon trade isnt nearly as much.

-Also, there was something about "Decent of Angels" for deepstriking units. He didnt mention the exact name of the ability, but apparently, Grey Knights are as adept at teleporting as BA's are with Deepstriking JP's.

He talked a little more about how the BA codex was a sort of "test bed" for some abilities that this codex was going to have. They look alot alike but the basic troops here are better...and the point costs reflect it. This army will STILL be very elite and small. But Psychics, characters, and speed with stormravens is "off the chain".

**Ixquic**

Regardless of if those rumors are true I REALLY hope that Inquisitors have EW or aren't IC. I like them being T3 since they are human but really investing a lot of points into something that gets poked by a guard sergeant with a power fist and instakilled is irritating.

**daedalus**

Kroothawk, allow me to fix your link: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/295597.page

**Kirasu**

If any unit needs scout it would be the storm raven.. lol? Usually I can see most rumors being true, but that one is a bit overpowered considering its an assault vehicle

**bhsman**

Interesting if true, though part of me hopes it isn't.

**Just Dave**

So does this mean that Grey Knights are shiny Blood Angels or that Blood Angels are angry Grey Knights?

**JohnHwangDD**

physcosamatic wrote:i demand one big huge book of inquisition, BURN THE WITCH, MUTANT AND HERETIC

Like Chaos used to be in 2E with CSM & Daemons & more?

Best of luck in getting GW to rewind the clock...
____

Terminus wrote:With their current business model, I do NOT want a combined Inquisition book,

I'd be OK with a unit of GKTs alongside a unit of DW both backing a pile of Stormies or generic Guard / generic SM. More than that, I don't want.

Also, Sisters are Ministorum, not Inquisition, so they *require* separation...
____

physcosamatic wrote:there would be set boundary's, to take sob you have to have a canoness or gk you need daemon hunter inq lord or gk hero or deathwatch require ordo xenos commander ect. but i can see the cheese waves of cheese if they didn't balance it to perfection

There won't be cheese, even if they mix them. It'll just be an unfulffy hodgepodge of random stuff that you can field, simply for the sake of fielding a mix of stuff.

**Shabutie**

Everyone keeps saying the Sisters shouldn't be included in a combined 'dex and I don't understand why. If they weren't working closely with the Witch Hunters to find heresy, what would they do to justify them fighting all the other armies?

I mean, Grey Knights technically aren't Inquisition, they just have the same goals so they work hand-in-hand with each other, much like SoB and WH. I hope that they are in the same codex, so that I can make use of my mixed Sisters/GK force.

**warboss**

Shabutie wrote:Everyone keeps saying the Sisters shouldn't be included in a combined 'dex and I don't understand why. If they weren't working closely with the Witch Hunters to find heresy, what would they do to justify them fighting all the other armies?

I mean, Grey Knights technically aren't Inquisition, they just have the same goals so they work hand-in-hand with each other, much like SoB and WH. I hope that they are in the same codex, so that I can make use of my mixed Sisters/GK force.

because people who play SOB want to feel special and wanted/needed by GW and other players and they do so apparently only with a separate codex. personally, i'd prefer a mega-combined inquisition codex bigger than the current marine one that allows you to field all flavors of the inquisition and their lackeys.

**Ixquic**

No because people who play SOB want to play SOB not a hodge podge of different and totally unrelated stuff. A combined codex would lead to a fully Sister force being filled with only a few troop choices, kinda like now. There's no way that GW is going to jam effectively three armies (Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle and Inquisition) into one book and have each one of them full of individuality. We don't tell Marine and Guard players that they should get half of their options and only one "Imperial Armies" book so I don't know why non SOB players are so concerned with what we get.

**Shabutie**

I don't mean any offense; I too like how the Sisters get a large chunk of the Witch Hunters book. But I think a combined Codex makes more sense.

Consider that the Inquisition isn't an army on its own, and neither are the Grey Knights. If you nix all the useless options there would be plenty of room for all in the same Codex.

Penitent Engines and Repentia were always sort of dead weight, so if you cut those, fold all the similar transport options (Rhinos, Land Raiders, Chimeras) into one Dedicated Transport section, get rid of the completely useless orbital bombardment option, and squash down the assassins section into a manageable size (probably by getting rid of the Culexus all together) and toss out the missions and adversaries options (because no one used those) and there you go.

Might have to have smaller fluff sections and gallery pages as a result, but all in all it would make for a good sized Codex with plenty of army options for all the Ordos.

**JohnHwangDD**

Shabutie wrote:Everyone keeps saying the Sisters shouldn't be included in a combined 'dex and I don't understand why.

I mean, Grey Knights technically aren't Inquisition,

Except, Grey Knights actually are under the Ordo Malleus. They're not a separate organization like the Navy, Ministorum, Guard or Knights.

Shabutie wrote:I don't mean any offense; I too like how the Sisters get a large chunk of the Witch Hunters book.

Consider that the Inquisition isn't an army on its own, and neither are the Grey Knights.

The Sisters predate the WH book with standalone 2E and 3E Codices which had no Inquisition elements whatsoever.

The Inquisition has it's own army, built upon Inquisitional Stormtroopers, and typically appropriating whatever local Guard / PDF / Marines they can get their hands on. The Grey Knights are under the Ordo Malleus, and are clearly Inquisition troops.

**Kroothawk**

Necrons, Grey Knights and Sororitas all started as a handfull of fluffy models, who got a small Codex in 3rd edition with only a few options and will be expanded to a full grown Codex in 5th edition. All three have the potential for this. If you read the 2nd edition Sororitas Codex, you will agree that the Ecclesiarchy has too much potential to be squeezed into half a Codex.

**Melissia**

I just hope that, when the Sisters are redone, it's Sisters, not Inquisition.

The Inquisition as done in 3rd edition was a set of crappy rules, with mostly crappy models, and almost no fluff. They're basically worthless as they were put in back then, and GW knows it... Jervis Johnson has admitted that they basically just stuffed the Inquisition into the Sisters codex because they wanted to advertise for the Inquisitor roleplaying game, rather than because of their own merits.