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Go to the last 2 pages before The Account in Prospero Burns. It is the end of Chapter 12: Thardia.

The account starts on page 393. I found the conversation you speak of on pages 387-389.

Just saw your edit. Same thing though, that conversation shows what I'm talking about.

Thanks Pretre, so I ask again Brother... cant be bothered scrolling up to find out the rest of your name, what information should Russ have observed that would warrant him ceasing in his destruction? as far as i can tell he was justified in his attack and the big E agreed, He may have been still using RPs but that didnt ruin a century long plan now did it? nor did it incriminate the Warmaster who at the time was thought to be incorruptable, i know you dont like the wolves but is that really a justification for ignoring the existing canon?

Ok.

But just so I'm clear on what we were going on about, we were basically arguing the same point and got confused over why?

lol. Yes, BrotherS, we're on the 'same page'. We just got wrapped up in quotes. lol

I didn't say anything about him needing to cease. I feel Russ was correct in his actions, you should speak to PurpleFoods and should you wish to adress me again I suggest you bother scrolling to learn the rest of the name. It's polite to do so after all The Rout.


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pretre wrote:lol. Yes, BrotherS, we're on the 'same page'. We just got wrapped up in quotes. lol

That's what I thought lol.

Sorry for not scrolling dude its just im using my phone to view this page and its painfully slow, the perspective of my page is also really close so i didnt realise that part of your post was a quote of sixkillas (the bit about tiny little brains flamed me somewhat)

Glad you agree they were justified, not to mention im glad they did it, not because I dislike the TS because I dont but because the battle was pretty epic from both perspectives, I think we all love a good and the Prospero one is one of my favourites. And though im a devout SW lover (as my name would suggest) I think wyrdmake totally deserved what happened to him, the guy was a douche.

My apologies Brotherstynier, I really need a PC lol i keep flaming because i cant read properly on this damn tiny screen.

No worries, The Rout. I understand.

Wyrdmake was indeed a douche, there were ways that he could have handled things better. The Legion as a whole however, they did what they needed to do and the tragedy of this isn't that the Thousand Sons were wrongfully punished (not that I think that, they were arrogant and their Captain's did go against Magnus' order to not attack), but that this whole battle between brothers could have been avoided if things had just happened differently between them.

The most awesome and messed up thing is that they were both in the right and both in the wrong at the same time, really compelling stuff. The TS were arrogant in the extreme its true but all astartes are to a degree.

I really dislike Magus though, he thinks hes even above Emperor and that is the worst thing any of the Primarchs can do.

I don't know if he thinks he's better, more that he thinks he knows more than the Emperor and that is why he should be able to do what it is he does.

I suppose but since Magnus values knowledge above all thing i think him believing he knows more than the E and thinking hes better are probably the same thing to him.

Seems odd to me that Magnus is the only uber psyker primarch, theres at least two of everything else, siege craft is dorn and perturabo, theres plenty of psychos, and plenty of close in fight specialist and plenty of awesome leaders but i digress (as usual)

I wander why everyone assumed Kasper was Magnus's spy, he could have been anyones, why assume Magnus?

Im asking you brotherS, you seem pretty damn knowledgeable.

It is strongly indicated that it wasn't Magnus, or so I guessed from passages.


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Remember that Sanguinius as well was a Psyker, albiet not to the level that Magnus was. In spite of this I would be willing to believe that maybe one of the two Unknown Primarchs was a Psyker.


Perhaps because they figured Magnus had the resources to groom a spy for such a long period of time, after all being Astartes they would have access to most Astartes battle records up to that time, and Hawser did have previous interactions with the Thousand Sons. The Wolves in researching him after his odd request to be allowed to study them, which I would assume his higher ups would report as his is terribly afraid of Wolves, would have discovered his encounter with them.

Logic could dictate it be the Thousand Sons that plant the Spy, after all they seem to trust the Wolves the least, and they are knowledge hungry, and not many know the Space Wolves other than their blood thirsty tactics, and they may have wished to know more about their brothers out of curiosity and the desire to have something on them if they needed it.


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I do, how ever believe like pretre has said that

SgtSixkilla wrote:


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VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:
Priest is a title, not an indication of religion,

Priest is a religious title. Also, there's instances where entire planet populations have been exterminated because they used non-secular titles and words for things that weren't really.

While i do agree that rune priests most likely get their powers from the Warp, i do not agree that just because they are called "priests" they are automatically spiritual and religious guides/leaders. We are after all talking about a universe where "librarians" means a 2,5 meter tall genetically engineered killing machine, who in addition to his already considerable bad@$$ery can shoot lightning out of his eyes, and cigarettes are called lho-sticks.(That is by the way a word I dislike strongly. I just feel a bad taste in my mouth after saying it.) So the idea that the title "priest" can mean something else than "religious leaders" isn't too far off. Though the actual religious leaders of the Space Wolves are called Wolf Priests, maybe it's a more flexible term in the 40k universe?

It's possible Horus messed with the communications between the Emperor and Russ without either of them knowing.
And yes although Russ made his own mistakes Magnus equally made his own, he could have simply hailed the fleet and surrendered in which case the Wolves would have brought both him and his legion to Terra possibly in time for the seige and maybe the entire thing would have worked out differently...

the rout wrote: wander why everyone assumed Kasper was Magnus's spy, he could have been anyones, why assume Magnus?

Because it's who the Wolves are most suspicious of I would guess. I thought myself that it was going to be an agent of Erebus, I was kinda close in a way

I didn't think on it until I read the posts since my last one but a good point was raised - What of Horus discussion with Russ? I do hope they cover it and don't forget about it as otherwise it is a bit of a d'oh.

Personally I think Russ chose not to reveal the communication from Horus. He was itching for a 'reconciliation' with Magnus and Horus gave him what he wanted, the chance to take him out. I think this is quite a good reason as their own Skjald was privy to the same knowledge, to ignore it otherwise seems a bit of a risk. Look what happened after they did ignore it. I am pretty sure that Russ would not have told the Emperor about how they came about the information either.

And on giving Magnus a chance, he's his brother, he can't not give him a chance or at least appear too. I imagine he holds his hand out but would pull it away should Magnus go for it, sorry to slow. There is no love loss between those two. It's another one of the Masks that the 'Executioner' wears.

He loved Magnus dude, he didnt like the guy but he loved him, and the big E sent Russ. Im just not sure how Russ went from his speech to Magnus to the mass bombarding but hey each to their own, and Magnus may have bben the only psyker Primarch capable of making a spy but im sure a few libbies from other legions could have managed to make something like hawser, They do refer to "every legion having networks of spies" so why just assume TS? seems odd to me.

And i completely agree with your last point purplefood, if theyd both made it to the siege things would have been differemt, and i personally think if Horus had faced the psychic might of Magnus at the same time as Russ's ferocity that the Emperor wouldnt have even had to bother fighting him, Horus may have been tough, but the power of Russ and Magnus combined would have made him look as weak as Alpharius IMO.

the rout wrote:And i completely agree with your last point purplefood, if theyd both made it to the siege things would have been differemt, and i personally think if Horus had faced the psychic might of Magnus at the same time as Russ's ferocity that the Emperor wouldnt have even had to bother fighting him, Horus may have been tough, but the power of Russ and Magnus combined would have made him look as weak as Alpharius IMO.

Indeed, it is said in "prospero burns" by this daemon in the form of Horus that the main threats to Chaos' great plans are Magnus and Russ. Which explains why Chaos organised the confrontation between the two, to remove these two major threats in a single blow.

isn't this another reason why magnus didn't attack because if he wiped out the wolves neither could save the emporer in the final battle

Such a shame what happened to Magnus, he was an arrogant git but still pretty awesome. And yeah I agree withyou Alpha but you gotta admit the fight between them was pretty epic, especially since neither of them wanted to fight but had to regardless.

the rout wrote:Such a shame what happened to Magnus, he was an arrogant git but still pretty awesome. And yeah I agree withyou Alpha but you gotta admit the fight between them was pretty epic, especially since neither of them wanted to fight but had to regardless.

Maybe they didn't want to fight each other at first, but by the end of the book, when they finally dueled each other, it really looks like the were able to overcome they moral issues. I mean, throwing psychic bolts at the face of your brother doesn't really sound like a loving fraternal act. Neither does stabbing your brother in the eye or breaking his spine on your knee.

Laodamia wrote:

the rout wrote:Such a shame what happened to Magnus, he was an arrogant git but still pretty awesome. And yeah I agree withyou Alpha but you gotta admit the fight between them was pretty epic, especially since neither of them wanted to fight but had to regardless.

Maybe they didn't want to fight each other at first, but by the end of the book, when they finally dueled each other, it really looks like the were able to overcome they moral issues. I mean, throwing psychic bolts at the face of your brother doesn't really sound like a loving fraternal act. Neither does stabbing your brother in the eye or breaking his spine on your knee.

I'm not sure but at that point i think Magnus had fully gone over to Chaos...

Laodamia wrote:Maybe they didn't want to fight each other at first, but by the end of the book, when they finally dueled each other, it really looks like the were able to overcome they moral issues. I mean, throwing psychic bolts at the face of your brother doesn't really sound like a loving fraternal act. Neither does stabbing your brother in the eye or breaking his spine on your knee.

As much as they may have human seeming emotions, Astartes are only barely human. Once they enter a fight, they kill what they are fighting or die trying; primarchs doubly so. That's what they were literally made to do. Did you expect a tearful slap fight or some purple nurples and noogies? Of course not, they used everything in their possession to win and kill their opponent.

i still think magnus didn't fight int he end as he had to lose because the wolves had to survive because (him having the greatest forsight of any living man bar the emperor)they needed to save the imperium and that the sons even being powerful wouldn't be accepted to fight along side their brother son terra he did the ultimate sacrifice to save what he could even if it meant his own damnation and even now i don't think he is completely evil pretty much all he does is sit in his tower with his legions on the planet of sorcerers (it why he got annoyed with ahriman for using the rubic how could they ever be redeemed if the warriors are automotans maybe they deserve the punishment and sacrifice they made) its ahriman who is more chaos as he is leading his thousand sons into combat to gain knowledge

That is one serious sentence.

Alphacerberus wrote:i still think magnus didn't fight int he end as he had to lose because the wolves had to survive because (him having the greatest forsight of any living man bar the emperor)they needed to save the imperium and that the sons even being powerful wouldn't be accepted to fight along side their brother son terra he did the ultimate sacrifice to save what he could even if it meant his own damnation and even now i don't think he is completely evil pretty much all he does is sit in his tower with his legions on the planet of sorcerers (it why he got annoyed with ahriman for using the rubic how could they ever be redeemed if the warriors are automotans maybe they deserve the punishment and sacrifice they made) its ahriman who is more chaos as he is leading his thousand sons into combat to gain knowledge

Apart from every now and again plotting increasingly convoluted plans to destroy the Space Wolves and Fenris.

purplefood wrote:

Alphacerberus wrote:i still think magnus didn't fight int he end as he had to lose because the wolves had to survive because (him having the greatest forsight of any living man bar the emperor)they needed to save the imperium and that the sons even being powerful wouldn't be accepted to fight along side their brother son terra he did the ultimate sacrifice to save what he could even if it meant his own damnation and even now i don't think he is completely evil pretty much all he does is sit in his tower with his legions on the planet of sorcerers (it why he got annoyed with ahriman for using the rubic how could they ever be redeemed if the warriors are automotans maybe they deserve the punishment and sacrifice they made) its ahriman who is more chaos as he is leading his thousand sons into combat to gain knowledge

Apart from every now and again plotting increasingly convoluted plans to destroy the Space Wolves and Fenris.

isn't that just ahriman? and if i am wrong i assume madness xD also i apologize for my lack of grammer it was a rushed mess up of a sentance, i just kept adding to.

In the Space Wolf series of books, Magnus is central to several attempts to destroy the Space Wolves.

Even outside of the SW series he tries to destroy them...
He managed to lay siege to the Fang for 40 days before the rest of the chapter caem back and kicked his arse... although the Great Wolf at the time got toasted by Magus after he smacked him a few times.