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the rout wrote:LOL i said none of them have turned chaos not not none of them have turned renegade. Several wolves have turned their back on the imperium but their just rebels not chaos marines, and before you say it yes their is a huuuuuuge difference between the two.

I hate to break it to you, but when you roll with Huron Blackheart... you're a Chaos Space marine. Not that there is anything wrong with that, Blackheart is one of the most badass charachters in 40k, but to say he isn't chaos is just foolish.

has anyone read the story in tales of heresy? the one with the wolves and the dark eldar? I think that was the only story involving the space wolves I ever enjoyed.

The one that was a Space Wolf version of Thirteenth Warrior which is a version of Beowulf?

akaean wrote:I hate to break it to you, but when you roll with Huron Blackheart... you're a Chaos Space marine. Not that there is anything wrong with that, Blackheart is one of the most badass charachters in 40k, but to say he isn't chaos is just foolish.

True, these renegade SW can pretty much be described as chaos marines by now. They're not just renegades, they're probably chaos worshipers.

But since we are comparing SW and TS, well let's just remember that the SW only had a few battle brothers turning renegade, whereas the entire TS legion now consists of chaotic minions. So we can't really point out the "wolf of fenris incident" to say that the SW are rubbish.

Laodamia wrote:

akaean wrote:I hate to break it to you, but when you roll with Huron Blackheart... you're a Chaos Space marine. Not that there is anything wrong with that, Blackheart is one of the most badass charachters in 40k, but to say he isn't chaos is just foolish.

True, these renegade SW can pretty much be described as chaos marines by now. They're not just renegades, they're probably chaos worshipers.

But since we are comparing SW and TS, well let's just remember that the SW only had a few battle brothers turning renegade, whereas the entire TS legion now consists of chaotic minions. So we can't really point out the "wolf of fenris incident" to say that the SW are rubbish.

To be fair, in the case of the TS, it wasn't really their choice to turn to Chaos. For the most part they were all very loyal to the Imperium. Even after the Imperium had basically turned their back on the TS after the edict of Nikea. Whereas all the other Traitor Legions willingly turned to Chaos and killed off any loyalists in their midst. Magnus only turned to the Chaos Gods when there was no other way to save his legion. Then there was Arhiman's boneheaded attempt to save them without doing enough research and ended up turning the lot of them into soulless suits of armor.

On the topic of the Russ/Lion-fistfight:
They fought for days like equals, but when Russ realized how silly the fight was in the first place, he broke out in laughter. This REALLY made el'Johnson pissed, and thus he KO-ed Russ when he didn't even consider landing another blow.

PS: If i sound too much like a fanboy, it's probably some kind of nationalism.

Khisanth Magus wrote:

Laodamia wrote:

akaean wrote:I hate to break it to you, but when you roll with Huron Blackheart... you're a Chaos Space marine. Not that there is anything wrong with that, Blackheart is one of the most badass charachters in 40k, but to say he isn't chaos is just foolish.

True, these renegade SW can pretty much be described as chaos marines by now. They're not just renegades, they're probably chaos worshipers.

But since we are comparing SW and TS, well let's just remember that the SW only had a few battle brothers turning renegade, whereas the entire TS legion now consists of chaotic minions. So we can't really point out the "wolf of fenris incident" to say that the SW are rubbish.

To be fair, in the case of the TS, it wasn't really their choice to turn to Chaos. For the most part they were all very loyal to the Imperium. Even after the Imperium had basically turned their back on the TS after the edict of Nikea. Whereas all the other Traitor Legions willingly turned to Chaos and killed off any loyalists in their midst. Magnus only turned to the Chaos Gods when there was no other way to save his legion. Then there was Arhiman's boneheaded attempt to save them without doing enough research and ended up turning the lot of them into soulless suits of armor.

The SW on the Wolf of Fenrs didn't really have a choice...
They could die or join Chaos, some chose Chaos, most chose to die.

But they dont neccasarily worship chaos your just guessing and since no other SW has ever fallen to chaos even the 13th who have been in the warp for ten thousand years i think its highly unlikely, especially since they already praise many gods of fenris. Renegade is against imperial agenda, chaos is a different religion, those on the wolf of fenris changed political views and nothing anywhere says they chose new gods.

Anyhow this is neither here nor there this thread is about the SW intelligence which in my opinion is moot point, they are by no measure stupid and regardless of whether you like their fluff or not they are arguably the most intelligent and able legion if not the most.

I am bias but trying not to be but nobody else in this thread even seems to be trying to be objective.

the rout wrote: no other SW has ever fallen to chaos

Skyrar's Dark Wolves beg to differ.

Khisanth Magus wrote:To be fair, in the case of the TS, it wasn't really their choice to turn to Chaos. For the most part they were all very loyal to the Imperium. Even after the Imperium had basically turned their back on the TS after the edict of Nikea. Whereas all the other Traitor Legions willingly turned to Chaos and killed off any loyalists in their midst. Magnus only turned to the Chaos Gods when there was no other way to save his legion. Then there was Arhiman's boneheaded attempt to save them without doing enough research and ended up turning the lot of them into soulless suits of armor.

True, the TS were loyal to the emperor when they were banned from Imperial Law, and it is a recurrent argument to say they are fundamentally some good guys. But since then, they all willingly turned to chaos (at least the ones that didn't end up being sealed in their armour, but even these marines would have signed in if they had been capable of it).

So, the SW probably look a bit "renegade" and suspicious with their long hair and their bad manners, but the TS are definitely a lot worse.

i think that dropping armies on fluff is quite dumb and would not do it besides space woves are the victor therefore they right history so read a book on space wolves as the whining losing chaos lost and then cried to GW

The thing that kinda got me when i read Prospero Burns was that yes the TS used their powers,
they were ignorant and believed what they were doing was for the "greater good" but the Space wolves have wulfen,
they are mutations which they use as a weapon, not only this but they have rune priests, who also use powers of the warp,
after they are banned, yes not to the same degree but are still used. Why were they allowed to? Why show compasion for one and not the other?
But then again, why have the SW in the first place unless He knew that the Heresy would happen? In which case why let it happen?
Ah the many questions of the fluff.
But saying that, its only one side to it, the SW were also probably "tricked" into doing what they did,
either that or the emperor really does have no idea and deserved everything he got.. my two cents

Mit Gas wrote:Whereas the amazing Thousand Sons are unique and interesting. Their story is a tragic one and they didn't join Chaos just to become evil, they were forced to. That puts them into the tragic category, something that few villains in 40k can claim. My (40k) heart belongs to them and I feel justified, God-approven HATE hate HATE for Wolves.

So yes, if you can play any chapter but them. Wolf Wolfgar Mc Wolfson, drinking out of his gigantic Wolf-horn, while sitting on his gigantic wolf, Wolfy, with his Wolfcoat, Wolfshield and Wolfhammer is not who you want to associate with. there are cooler legions.

Uhm......fanboy much?

Seriously, another topic about bashin the SWs? No offense but haven't we been through this already?

I never really understood WHY space wolves weren't chaos. I'm not saying that they shouldn't get their own dex (thats a different debate) but rather why their different dex wasn't chaos instead of imperial.

They were inspired by VIKINGS in space. Vikings weren't exactly a group of people known for not raiding, pillaging, raping, and general ruthlessness.

The entire Space Wolf codex would be much more compelling if they actually acted like space vikings, a band of renegades operating in the "north" of the galaxy, launching devastating raids against imperial worlds.

That is what Vikings do. They weren't "Defenders of the Peace" they were the entire reason peasants cowered to the nobles for protection, great warriors praying on the weak is what vikings were.

Honestly, Huron Blackheart and the Red Corsairs are more akin to Space Vikings then the Space Wolves ever were or will be. I'm glad he took the Wolf of Fenris from those hypocrites.

You see, you have given voice to the not all true stereotype about vikings. Yes the Space Wolves are based on Viking culture, anyone with two eyes could see that BUT Viking culture isn't exactly what you say. Yes they were raiders, pillagers, and at most times ruthless but the most gruesome acts Vikings preformed were usually the raids. Put it simple, they ran in scared the crap out of everyone, killed anyone who tried to stop them and took everything of value. The horror stories about them being demonized bloodthirsty pagans intent on slaughter is nothing more than crock cooked up by those who were scared of them or ploy stories used by the vikings to scare people into giving up without a fight.

The Scandinavian area in that time was barren so the people became raiders and hard fighters, much like the Space Wolves themselves.

So my question is: Why is it so wrong for the 40k version of the vikings to be Imperial? The Space wolves use similar tactics to the vikings, have the same sort of world/culture/way of life. The SWs are BASED on vikings, not entirely like them.

Methinks a certain Chaos player has a little Wulfen envy

Almost ;-) I'm really a dirty eldar player who is starting csm because I think tradgedy is more compelling then mary sue wolf mcwolfenson and his wolf claws...

To be honest I actually do respect the imperial fists, I think dorn was a first rate primarch, and if I had to paint sm, they'd be yellow.

SgtSixkilla wrote:And even a dog or a wolf will give up when the situation changes "beyond the initial parameters".

A dog trained to track/drive prey without LOS to the hunter doesn't give up easily. Elk season here sees hunters giving up in the evening when it gets dark. Dogs don't care about light quite as much as people with rifles do so the dog keepers will then spend quite a lot of time on recovering their dogs. I caught one last autumn (well, he gave up and sought out people for a warm place to rest actually) and called the number on his collar - that was 0300 in the morning and something like 20 kilometers from where they had been hunting. Dogs don't care that their owners are on foot and can't catch the elk they're barking at. They started barking and goddamn they'll keep barking until someone shoots the stupid elk, it gets run over by a truck or swims over such a large body of water that the dog doesn't want to follow.

Space Wolves do the same, but wouldn't be as cool if they were called Space Dogs.

WARORK93 wrote:

Mit Gas wrote:Whereas the amazing Thousand Sons are unique and interesting. Their story is a tragic one and they didn't join Chaos just to become evil, they were forced to. That puts them into the tragic category, something that few villains in 40k can claim. My (40k) heart belongs to them and I feel justified, God-approven HATE hate HATE for Wolves.

So yes, if you can play any chapter but them. Wolf Wolfgar Mc Wolfson, drinking out of his gigantic Wolf-horn, while sitting on his gigantic wolf, Wolfy, with his Wolfcoat, Wolfshield and Wolfhammer is not who you want to associate with. there are cooler legions.

Uhm......fanboy much?

Seriously, another topic about bashin the SWs? No offense but haven't we been through this already?

I never really understood WHY space wolves weren't chaos. I'm not saying that they shouldn't get their own dex (thats a different debate) but rather why their different dex wasn't chaos instead of imperial.

They were inspired by VIKINGS in space. Vikings weren't exactly a group of people known for not raiding, pillaging, raping, and general ruthlessness.

The entire Space Wolf codex would be much more compelling if they actually acted like space vikings, a band of renegades operating in the "north" of the galaxy, launching devastating raids against imperial worlds.

That is what Vikings do. They weren't "Defenders of the Peace" they were the entire reason peasants cowered to the nobles for protection, great warriors praying on the weak is what vikings were.

Honestly, Huron Blackheart and the Red Corsairs are more akin to Space Vikings then the Space Wolves ever were or will be. I'm glad he took the Wolf of Fenris from those hypocrites.

You see, you have given voice to the not all true stereotype about vikings. Yes the Space Wolves are based on Viking culture, anyone with two eyes could see that BUT Viking culture isn't exactly what you say. Yes they were raiders, pillagers, and at most times ruthless but the most gruesome acts Vikings preformed were usually the raids. Put it simple, they ran in scared the crap out of everyone, killed anyone who tried to stop them and took everything of value. The horror stories about them being demonized bloodthirsty pagans intent on slaughter is nothing more than crock cooked up by those who were scared of them or ploy stories used by the vikings to scare people into giving up without a fight.

The Scandinavian area in that time was barren so the people became raiders and hard fighters, much like the Space Wolves themselves.

So my question is: Why is it so wrong for the 40k version of the vikings to be Imperial? The Space wolves use similar tactics to the vikings, have the same sort of world/culture/way of life. The SWs are BASED on vikings, not entirely like them.

Methinks a certain Chaos player has a little Wulfen envy

Space Wolves aren't based on the history major's understanding of vikings but their image in popular culture. When you say viking to the average person they think horns on helmets, pillaging , and raping.

I think SW might be my least favorite army in all of 40k. Thousand Sons on the other hand are pretty awesome.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

Mit Gas wrote:I love dogs, I think wolves are cool and vikings are as well, my last name is even Thor, but the Space Wolves are a bunch of wasted ingrates, completely slowed and right behind the Ultramarines in their pimp-position. They are the chapter I dislike most, mainly due to being slowed, aggressive morons. Yeah, they drink. Awesome. They are made to appeal kiddies and all the guys I know who are Wolves-players have more than 1 negative trait in common and I see not the brightest bulbs siding with them either.


Whereas the amazing Thousand Sons are unique and interesting. Their story is a tragic one and they didn't join Chaos just to become evil, they were forced to. That puts them into the tragic category, something that few villains in 40k can claim. My (40k) heart belongs to them and I feel justified, God-approven HATE hate HATE for Wolves.

So yes, if you can play any chapter but them. Wolf Wolfgar Mc Wolfson, drinking out of his gigantic Wolf-horn, while sitting on his gigantic wolf, Wolfy, with his Wolfcoat, Wolfshield and Wolfhammer is not who you want to associate with. there are cooler legions.

Really?
I chose SW's because I like Nordic myth and not because I am a juvenile.
I chose to get SW's when new to the hobby and before knowing they were a newly refurbished army with shiney stuff and the bandwagon to despise.
I would be very grateful for you to point out this negative flaw that I have in common with all other SW collectors.
Being slowed I have absolutely no clue what it might be.

But if you hate fictional soldiers so much you have have a few issues to deal with before lambasting others.

Sadly, the irony is lost in translation. I'm making fun of SW players who happen to post with such fervor all the time (some even in this thread), albeit using simpler sentence structure and no punctuation to tell us about how awesome their wolves are. And cause it's fun to rub SW players as they're intense personalities (at least the ones I know) that mostly just reek of nerdiness. While I think the SW are lame in some ways (like being über-stylized and pimped but that is the fault of unfit fluff-writers), I'm not really hating them. I guess someone with half a brain would realize that when someones rants and puts in stupid stuff like "justifed, god-approven hate HATE hate" that they're not entirely serious but I take it that this excludes you. I just hate them when I think as a 1k Son and it's fun to write hogwash. You should just flame back as a SW, would've been much more fun than you crying a river and being all hurt. A true, magnificent Space Wolf would just punch back but I see that you're part of the whiny company. Uwehehehe.

-Throws an axe at Mit Gas-

That's a better reaction? xD

Mit Gas wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

Mit Gas wrote:I love dogs, I think wolves are cool and vikings are as well, my last name is even Thor, but the Space Wolves are a bunch of wasted ingrates, completely slowed and right behind the Ultramarines in their pimp-position. They are the chapter I dislike most, mainly due to being slowed, aggressive morons. Yeah, they drink. Awesome. They are made to appeal kiddies and all the guys I know who are Wolves-players have more than 1 negative trait in common and I see not the brightest bulbs siding with them either.


Whereas the amazing Thousand Sons are unique and interesting. Their story is a tragic one and they didn't join Chaos just to become evil, they were forced to. That puts them into the tragic category, something that few villains in 40k can claim. My (40k) heart belongs to them and I feel justified, God-approven HATE hate HATE for Wolves.

So yes, if you can play any chapter but them. Wolf Wolfgar Mc Wolfson, drinking out of his gigantic Wolf-horn, while sitting on his gigantic wolf, Wolfy, with his Wolfcoat, Wolfshield and Wolfhammer is not who you want to associate with. there are cooler legions.

Really?
I chose SW's because I like Nordic myth and not because I am a juvenile.
I chose to get SW's when new to the hobby and before knowing they were a newly refurbished army with shiney stuff and the bandwagon to despise.
I would be very grateful for you to point out this negative flaw that I have in common with all other SW collectors.
Being slowed I have absolutely no clue what it might be.

But if you hate fictional soldiers so much you have have a few issues to deal with before lambasting others.

Sadly, the irony is lost in translation. I'm making fun of SW players who happen to post with such fervor all the time (some even in this thread), albeit using simpler sentence structure and no punctuation to tell us about how awesome their wolves are. And cause it's fun to rub SW players as they're intense personalities (at least the ones I know) that mostly just reek of nerdiness. While I think the SW are lame in some ways (like being über-stylized and pimped but that is the fault of unfit fluff-writers), I'm not really hating them. I guess someone with half a brain would realize that when someones rants and puts in stupid stuff like "justifed, god-approven hate HATE hate" that they're not entirely serious but I take it that this excludes you. I just hate them when I think as a 1k Son and it's fun to write hogwash. You should just flame back as a SW, would've been much more fun than you crying a river and being all hurt. A true, magnificent Space Wolf would just punch back but I see that you're part of the whiny company. Uwehehehe.

Here's me biting back.

Reported for purposely trying to start a flame war.

This topic seems to be getting more and more flammable...

Mit Gas wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

Mit Gas wrote:I love dogs, I think wolves are cool and vikings are as well, my last name is even Thor, but the Space Wolves are a bunch of wasted ingrates, completely slowed and right behind the Ultramarines in their pimp-position. They are the chapter I dislike most, mainly due to being slowed, aggressive morons. Yeah, they drink. Awesome. They are made to appeal kiddies and all the guys I know who are Wolves-players have more than 1 negative trait in common and I see not the brightest bulbs siding with them either.


Whereas the amazing Thousand Sons are unique and interesting. Their story is a tragic one and they didn't join Chaos just to become evil, they were forced to. That puts them into the tragic category, something that few villains in 40k can claim. My (40k) heart belongs to them and I feel justified, God-approven HATE hate HATE for Wolves.

So yes, if you can play any chapter but them. Wolf Wolfgar Mc Wolfson, drinking out of his gigantic Wolf-horn, while sitting on his gigantic wolf, Wolfy, with his Wolfcoat, Wolfshield and Wolfhammer is not who you want to associate with. there are cooler legions.

Really?
I chose SW's because I like Nordic myth and not because I am a juvenile.
I chose to get SW's when new to the hobby and before knowing they were a newly refurbished army with shiney stuff and the bandwagon to despise.
I would be very grateful for you to point out this negative flaw that I have in common with all other SW collectors.
Being slowed I have absolutely no clue what it might be.

But if you hate fictional soldiers so much you have have a few issues to deal with before lambasting others.

Sadly, the irony is lost in translation. I'm making fun of SW players who happen to post with such fervor all the time (some even in this thread), albeit using simpler sentence structure and no punctuation to tell us about how awesome their wolves are. And cause it's fun to rub SW players as they're intense personalities (at least the ones I know) that mostly just reek of nerdiness. While I think the SW are lame in some ways (like being über-stylized and pimped but that is the fault of unfit fluff-writers), I'm not really hating them. I guess someone with half a brain would realize that when someones rants and puts in stupid stuff like "justifed, god-approven hate HATE hate" that they're not entirely serious but I take it that this excludes you. I just hate them when I think as a 1k Son and it's fun to write hogwash. You should just flame back as a SW, would've been much more fun than you crying a river and being all hurt. A true, magnificent Space Wolf would just punch back but I see that you're part of the whiny company. Uwehehehe.

This is ridiculously OTT and rude to other posters. If you continue to post in such a rude and unpleasent style then your account on this site will be suspended. Cracks about other users having "half a brain" and the like are neither wanted or welcome here.

Do better, or don't bother.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Pilau - no, they really are the Executioners. That is their role - to "do the unthinkable"

And what is the MOST unthinkable thing to a standard SM? Hint: it's repeated a million times throughout the Heresy.

Yeah, marine vs marine, I know I know, but until there is a definite concrete 'Leman killed Primarch 2' then i'm reserving the right to disagree.

I would say the most unthinkable thing for a standard Space Marine would be to betray the Emperor

Not met Russ yet in Prospero Burns, just up to the part where Hawser is collecting the tales of Longfang.

Actually Nos - I have been thinking on this and maybe would kind of agree, it would be one of the reasons that the Space Wolves seem such a dour lot and keep themselves to themselves. You don't really want to be making friends and then one day maybe having to go kill them.

I've read further and am torn between my original standing on the matter - that they aren't necessarily the slayers of Legions but some of Russ speech does nearly convince me otherwise. But he's a Primarch and it possibly could be bravado. Who's going to tell him he's lying?

the rout wrote:Rune Priest arent librarians and therefore not banned by the edicts of nikea. They do use the warp tis true but not to the extent librarians do, they dont even need nor use psychic hoods.

Not to mention their power come from psychically imbued runes so their not really librarians.

They might not be Librarians as such but they are one and the same, sorcerers with a different name.

the rout wrote:And why are fenrisian gods false gods btw? belief makes it real in the warp therfore the fenrisians have created their own mini gods which must go part way to explaining no wolves falling to chaos as far as i can tell. The 13th live in the warp and the RP are unprotected and still no chaos wolves.

What other Fenrisian Gods are there? I thought they only worshiped the Emperor as the Allfather?

biccat wrote:
Given that the Emperor bargained with the Chaos Gods to create the Primarchs

Daemon lies and half truths - Daemons cannot be trusted! For Shame biccat

akaean wrote:

the rout wrote:LOL i said none of them have turned chaos not not none of them have turned renegade. Several wolves have turned their back on the imperium but their just rebels not chaos marines, and before you say it yes their is a huuuuuuge difference between the two.

I hate to break it to you, but when you roll with Huron Blackheart... you're a Chaos Space marine. Not that there is anything wrong with that, Blackheart is one of the most badass charachters in 40k, but to say he isn't chaos is just foolish.

BrotherStynier wrote:

the rout wrote: no other SW has ever fallen to chaos

Skyrar's Dark Wolves beg to differ.

As soon as you turn your back on the Emperor you are a traitor and renegade and joining the Blackheart you are a Chaos follower by default. Honsou of the Iron Warriors had a Space Wolf in his warband.

Chaos follower mean follwing chaos gofs not chaos dudes.

And their are lts of gods on fenris, morkai for one and the god of iron for another.

Anyhoo that aside where does all the SW hate come from? is it the fluff or the characters? is it the codex or the models? If people dont like them thats fine but the amount of hate i see in this community just makes me wanna leave, not because i wouldnt happily bitch slap most SW haters in a match or a manly arm wrestle but because i think this amount of hate is irrational and yes im going to say it STUPID.

I mean i hate the smurfs but i dont reant half as much as SW haters.

Not to get all flamey but i think its just jealousy of cool models, cooler rules and even cooler characters that the other blander legions cant equal but hey if there a logical explanation besides "they call everything wolf and drink loads and they kill people we think are cool" then id love to hear it. Otherwise id politely suggest you grow up

Having read some more of A Thousand Sons, and reading all the posts being made here about the Space Wolves, I got REALLY excited.

Excited that I didn't WASTE my money starting a Space Wolves army.

What a bunch of hypocritical, devious, bastard idiots they are (yes I said idiots). They're like a bunch of whining little babies, crying to the Emperor about every little thing they don't like. All the while they are doing almost exactly the same stuff. In fact, it doesn't appear that the Emperor even wanted the council of Nikaea, but that Russ and Mortarion cried their eyes out, and that the Emperor's hand was forced if he wanted to keep the cry-babies happy. If he hadn't, Russ and Mortarion both would have turned on him. Becoming traitors. I haven't heard of a bigger bunch of losers. It's like when I was bullied in school, the second I fought back, the bullies ran crying to the teachers getting me expelled. And if all that wasn't enough, they behave JUST like the mean girl in some high school drama movie, pretending to be the unpopular girl's friend, just to get some dirt on her, only to use that dirt to publicly humiliate her. Bunch of drama queens, the lot of them.

Someone said the SW powers doesn't come from the warp, which is silly, because it's CLEAR that ALL supernatural powers in 40K come from the warp. Psykers, sorcerers, priests, navigators, chaplains, librarians, runes, primarchs and even the emperor's own powers ALL comes from the warp. Not only that but the Emperor is the epitome of secular (non-religious) thought, and then the wolves are using PRIESTS???? What the hell? The SW should have been evicted from the Imperium of Man for that alone. The SW are like the US, saying "Ooooh, noooo. YOU can't have nukes. YOU can't handle that power. YOU must get rid of your nukes OR ELSE! What? These old things? Well. They're OURS. We MUST be allowed to have them. Why? Oh. Uhm. Weeeell. To PROTECT you guys. Yes, that's it. To protect YOU. YOU can't take OUR toys, or we'll start throwing them around." What a bunch of morons. I'm glad I didn't waste my money on Space Wolves, because I really can't stand that kind of hypocrisy, fiction or not. I've thrown books in the trash for less.

Oh, and just so it's clear. I DO NOT COLLECT THOUSAND SONS. I collect Imperial Guard and Orks, and have very recently made my own Chaos Legion.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

the rout wrote:Chaos follower mean follwing chaos gofs not chaos dudes.

Without the (warp derived) protection of the Emperor, no one could stand against the creeping corruption of chaos for long. The long life-span of an Astartes warrior means it's guaranteed to happen sooner or later.

Lol the 13th company live in the warp dude so yeh they kinda could survive and half for the last 10k years.

Sorcery isnt the same as psykers, SW RPs use their own power as do all librarian and sanctioned psykers but sorcerers use sources hence the name to perform rituals, read the rest of thousand sons youll know what i mean, it isnt the same hence why wizards and magicians and sorcerers are all different things.

And did you just call the SW cry babies? are you kidding me? they reported the TS to the emperor its true but that is their duty and yes they double crossed the unlawful TS but so what? the guy deserved it, their the friggin whiney ones, the SW just did what they thought the emperor would want but did the TS:? noooo They are as much in the wrong as even horus dont let the book confuse you and when you read prospero burns Russ is actually trying to save Magnus but hey youve made up your mind right? thrown the book away in anger? you sound like what your trying to say the wolves are genius.

SgtSixkilla wrote:Having read some more of A Thousand Sons, and reading all the posts being made here about the Space Wolves, I got REALLY excited.

Excited that I didn't WASTE my money starting a Space Wolves army.

What a bunch of hypocritical, devious, bastard idiots they are (yes I said idiots). They're like a bunch of whining little babies, crying to the Emperor about every little thing they don't like. All the while they are doing almost exactly the same stuff. In fact, it doesn't appear that the Emperor even wanted the council of Nikaea, but that Russ and Mortarion cried their eyes out, and that the Emperor's hand was forced if he wanted to keep the cry-babies happy. If he hadn't, Russ and Mortarion both would have turned on him. Becoming traitors. I haven't heard of a bigger bunch of losers. It's like when I was bullied in school, the second I fought back, the bullies ran crying to the teachers getting me expelled. And if all that wasn't enough, they behave JUST like the mean girl in some high school drama movie, pretending to be the unpopular girl's friend, just to get some dirt on her, only to use that dirt to publicly humiliate her. Bunch of drama queens, the lot of them.

Someone said the SW powers doesn't come from the warp, which is silly, because it's CLEAR that ALL supernatural powers in 40K come from the warp. Psykers, sorcerers, priests, navigators, chaplains, librarians, runes, primarchs and even the emperor's own powers ALL comes from the warp. Not only that but the Emperor is the epitome of secular (non-religious) thought, and then the wolves are using PRIESTS???? What the hell? The SW should have been evicted from the Imperium of Man for that alone. The SW are like the US, saying "Ooooh, noooo. YOU can't have nukes. YOU can't handle that power. YOU must get rid of your nukes OR ELSE! What? These old things? Well. They're OURS. We MUST be allowed to have them. Why? Oh. Uhm. Weeeell. To PROTECT you guys. Yes, that's it. To protect YOU. YOU can't take OUR toys, or we'll start throwing them around." What a bunch of morons. I'm glad I didn't waste my money on Space Wolves, because I really can't stand that kind of hypocrisy, fiction or not. I've thrown books in the trash for less.

Oh, and just so it's clear. I DO NOT COLLECT THOUSAND SONS. I collect Imperial Guard and Orks, and have very recently made my own Chaos Legion.

While the Emperor didn't truly want the Council to occur, he was very emphatic in his censureship of Magnus, citing that he was playing with powers beyond his control. The Council itself was to appease those who were against the use of Librarians in the Astartes (Russ, Mortarion, the Sisters of Silence etc.), but the final decision was his and his alone. If he had gone the other way, the others would not have been happy, but they'd have accepted it. Mortarion seemed to be rather vindictive, but how hate-filled Russ truly was is debateable. From another point of view, on an issue as divided as the Librarius issue, were the Wolves truly wrong in questioning something that the Emperor had made no true decision on, or being on the other side of the table, if they thought it was wrong?

Priest is a title, not an indication of religion, but I don't truly understand it either. The Wolves believe that their power is different, although how they can do that when they can clearly send themselves into the aethyr, I do not know. I do dislike Wyrdmake as well, despite being a fan of the Space Wolves. The subterfuge is beneath the Sons of Russ.

I would recommend you continue reading. I found myself very much on the side of the Thousand Sons until towards the end of the book, then it began to fade as I realised exactly what was going on. You may be the same.

Without the (warp derived) protection of the Emperor, no one could stand against the creeping corruption of chaos for long. The long life-span of an Astartes warrior means it's guaranteed to happen sooner or later.

Actually, it's less the protection of the Emperor, and more the fact that the only place a renegade Astartes is likely to be able to escape the Imperium is the Maelstrom or the great Eye, both of which involve heavy exposure to the forces of the Chaos Gods.

--

Oh, and the US reference is likely to just inspire flaming, so it's probably a bad idea.

Purplefood, et al:

I'm not sure that it really is a "change" to Nikaea in the books.

Thnk about it - the HH books are the first "as it happened" accounts, with no historical changes over 10k years. All other accounts of Nikaea are post Heresy - when the IoM would need to justify the continued use of Libbies, but without seeming to contradict the Emperors divine word.

So they changed it: no Sorcery, but psychics are allowed.

It's an interesting idea....

the rout wrote:Lol the 13th company live in the warp dude so yeh they kinda could survive and half for the last 10k years.

But as long as their Geller field, psychic choir, and their dedication to the emperor remains, they're still protected. And it's mentioned, in more places than I can remember, that time in the warp doesn't flow in the same way as time in real space.

the rout wrote:Sorcery isnt the same as psykers, SW RPs use their own power as do all librarian and sanctioned psykers but sorcerers use sources hence the name to perform rituals, read the rest of thousand sons youll know what i mean, it isnt the same hence why wizards and magicians and sorcerers are all different things.

Bold emphasis: No. Their power comes from the warp. They are just able to channel that power through themselves.

Underline emphasis: WHAT? A sorcerer is just a name for someone who uses their powers to cast spells instead of navigating ships or whatever. Sorcerer, psyker, navigator, librarian, chaplain, witch are all just names for the same thing. The singular difference is how they manifest their power.

the rout wrote:
And did you just call the SW cry babies? are you kidding me? they reported the TS to the emperor its true but that is their duty and yes they double crossed the unlawful TS but so what? the guy deserved it, their the friggin whiney ones, the SW just did what they thought the emperor would want but did the TS:? noooo They are as much in the wrong as even horus dont let the book confuse you and when you read prospero burns Russ is actually trying to save Magnus but hey youve made up your mind right? thrown the book away in anger? you sound like what your trying to say the wolves are genius.

The actions of the wolves speak for themselves. Whining little babies who threaten violence if they don't get their way. I'm not defending Magnus the Red. He's a douche just like Russ, but because of arrogance instead of deception and brutality. I've never said Magnus was right, I've said Russ was wrong.


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VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:
Priest is a title, not an indication of religion,

Priest is a religious title. Also, there's instances where entire planet populations have been exterminated because they used non-secular titles and words for things that weren't really.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:
I would recommend you continue reading. I found myself very much on the side of the Thousand Sons until towards the end of the book, then it began to fade as I realised exactly what was going on. You may be the same.

Again. I'm not siding with the Thousand Sons. I'm siding against the Space Wolves. Because of actions they've already perpetrated.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:
Oh, and the US reference is likely to just inspire flaming, so it's probably a bad idea.

But it's true. If someone can't handle it, it's their problem.

the rout wrote:Chaos follower mean follwing chaos gofs not chaos dudes.

It's one and the same thing really.

the rout wrote:And their are lts of gods on fenris, morkai for one and the god of iron for another.

Ok cool, I never knew that.

the rout wrote:Anyhoo that aside where does all the SW hate come from? is it the fluff or the characters? is it the codex or the models? If people dont like them thats fine but the amount of hate i see in this community just makes me wanna leave, not because i wouldnt happily bitch slap most SW haters in a match or a manly arm wrestle but because i think this amount of hate is irrational and yes im going to say it STUPID.

No hate from here, I like the Space Wolves from Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns and even the lone wolf from Furious Abyss. But if there's a discussion to be had about events and something that I can comment on then I will.

the rout wrote:Not to get all flamey but i think its just jealousy of cool models, cooler rules and even cooler characters that the other blander legions cant equal but hey if there a logical explanation besides "they call everything wolf and drink loads and they kill people we think are cool" then id love to hear it. Otherwise id politely suggest you grow up

This is quite simply, is your opinion on the Space Wolves, we're expressing ours.

the rout wrote:
Sorcery isnt the same as psykers, SW RPs use their own power as do all librarian and sanctioned psykers but sorcerers use sources hence the name to perform rituals, read the rest of thousand sons youll know what i mean, it isnt the same hence why wizards and magicians and sorcerers are all different things.

It is the same, just a different way in which the are used, all psychic powers come from the same place. The different between the Thousand Sons and Space Wolves is minimal. The Thousand Sons had the Tutelaries the Space Wolves have their runes and their Gods.

LOL you think sorcerors are the same as psykers? lol your bright and the 13 th company have no geller field or ships and they went into the warp before the SW began to praise the emperor as a god so go figure? They survive how? oh yeah by force of wolfy will thats how.

Sorcerors perform ritual and use sacrifice, psykers and RPs dont, thats the difference. Other wise why would the BL make the distinction?

Priest can also be litterally translated as man of truth so yeah not religious and the reporting of the TS isnt douchey, leaving them to run amok would be douchey reporting them was what russ thought was best for them and the imperium.

And Chaplains arent psykers man, WOW for someone with such an attitude you sure are uninformed. Read a bit more fluff and get back to me.