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What happen if I have mulitple castings of Cleansing Flame in the same combat? (From different units)


Do they all happen at the same time, or do you remove caualties between each one?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Pyriel - for Summoning the BRB FAQ already answers that I believe - it states you cannot use "start of movement phase / turn" abilities after a unit arrives from reserves

SW FAQed this for Logan's "High King" SR to say "yes, Logan MAY use High King after entering from reserve." The outcome may be the same for GKs.

Deuce11 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Pyriel - for Summoning the BRB FAQ already answers that I believe - it states you cannot use "start of movement phase / turn" abilities after a unit arrives from reserves

SW FAQed this for Logan's "High King" SR to say "yes, Logan MAY use High King after entering from reserve." The outcome may be the same for GKs.

Wow, that's freaking stupid. That's tacit approval to have any "at that the start of the turn" effect actually occur "whenever the hell you feel like it".

DarknessEternal wrote:

Deuce11 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Pyriel - for Summoning the BRB FAQ already answers that I believe - it states you cannot use "start of movement phase / turn" abilities after a unit arrives from reserves

SW FAQed this for Logan's "High King" SR to say "yes, Logan MAY use High King after entering from reserve." The outcome may be the same for GKs.

Wow, that's freaking stupid. That's tacit approval to have any "at that the start of the turn" effect actually occur "whenever the hell you feel like it".

Not necessarily. It just means it is game for an FAQ to change the general rules set forth by the BGB FAQ. Unfortunately this also means this question must now be raised with every single codex release to get the right answer.

Does the Vindicare's Turbo Penetrating round(when not shot at vehicles) cause 2 allocatable wounds to a unit or does it cause 1 wound to a single model or unit that is then doubled. Also does the opponent roll 1 save or 2 against this shot?

Q: How will Shadows in the warp affect strike squads?
The shadows says " Any Pysker within 12"" If the justicar is at 13" away but a strike marine is within 12" what happens?

NecronLord3 wrote:Does the Vindicare's Turbo Penetrating round(when not shot at vehicles) cause 2 allocatable wounds to a unit or does it cause 1 wound to a single model or unit that is then doubled. Also does the opponent roll 1 save or 2 against this shot?

It says in the turbo-pen rule that it inflicts the wounds on a model.
You make one saving throw per wound. PG20 in the rule book. You make a save when you take a wound. You are never given permission to make one roll vs multiple wounds.

Dok wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:Does the Vindicare's Turbo Penetrating round(when not shot at vehicles) cause 2 allocatable wounds to a unit or does it cause 1 wound to a single model or unit that is then doubled. Also does the opponent roll 1 save or 2 against this shot?

It says in the turbo-pen rule that it inflicts the wounds on a model.
You make one saving throw per wound. PG20 in the rule book. You make a save when you take a wound. You are never given permission to make one roll vs multiple wounds.

That works more clearly. Now how about Shield Breaker, does it do any damage or just remove the Inv. save?

NecronLord3 wrote:

Dok wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:Does the Vindicare's Turbo Penetrating round(when not shot at vehicles) cause 2 allocatable wounds to a unit or does it cause 1 wound to a single model or unit that is then doubled. Also does the opponent roll 1 save or 2 against this shot?

It says in the turbo-pen rule that it inflicts the wounds on a model.
You make one saving throw per wound. PG20 in the rule book. You make a save when you take a wound. You are never given permission to make one roll vs multiple wounds.

That works more clearly. Now how about Shield Breaker, does it do any damage or just remove the Inv. save?

Since it clearly states that the victim may take any remaining saves once the invuln is gone, it does damage as normal.

About falchions:

Codex Grey Knights

Nemesis falchions - Page 54
The wielder of a pair of Nemesis falchions has +1 Attack.



5th ed. Rulebook

Fighting with two single-handed weapons - Page 42

Two normal close combat weapon
These models gain one bonus attack...

Two of the same special weapon
These models gain one additional attack


When you read the rules you do realise that the author used two words with different meaning. "has" and "gain" .
A model that wields "a pair of Nemesis falchions" automatically has +1 Attack, because I repeat it wields "a pair of Nemesis falchions". Not because it is a pair of weapons.

When the rules refer to weapons in combat the authors use the word "gain", "bonus attack", "additional attack". They are extra attacks. Attacks that you gain for using X number of the same weapon type. A "pair" means "two". Since nemesis weapons are special and not normal weapons, a "wielder of a pair of Nemesis falchions" means "a wielder of two of the same special weapon". And for this reason you "gain one additional attack".

To conclude, you don't have +2 attacks and you don't get +2 attacks. You have +1 Attack because of the use of the falchions and you gain +1 attack in close combat because of the two same weapons in each hand.

I emphasize the "a" in attack because that's the way they are written in the rules. For falchions is "Attack" and for close combat weapons it's "attack".

If an army contains two units with Grand Strategy how do those effects work together?

NecronLord3 wrote:If an army contains two units with Grand Strategy how do those effects work together?

Exactly as it says in the book? There is no conflict, none.

TL Shaggy wrote:Q: How will Shadows in the warp affect strike squads?
The shadows says " Any Pysker within 12"" If the justicar is at 13" away but a strike marine is within 12" what happens?

The entire unit is the psyker, not just the Justicar. The only thing different with the justicar is that PotW affect him first. So if one model is within 12" then it is affect by shadows in the warp.

Balls

nosferatu1001 wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:If an army contains two units with Grand Strategy how do those effects work together?

Exactly as it says in the book? There is no conflict, none.

Okay so I can nominate D3 units to scout and be scoring.

Yes, why couldn't you? You can even have 2d3 units, they don't have to be the same d3 each time.

NecronLord3 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:If an army contains two units with Grand Strategy how do those effects work together?

Exactly as it says in the book? There is no conflict, none.

Okay so I can nominate D3 units to scout and be scoring.

You could get less scoring units that scout units and vice versa.

yperihitikos wrote:About falchions:

Codex Grey Knights

Nemesis falchions - Page 54
The wielder of a pair of Nemesis falchions has +1 Attack.



5th ed. Rulebook

Fighting with two single-handed weapons - Page 42

Two normal close combat weapon
These models gain one bonus attack...

Two of the same special weapon
These models gain one additional attack


When you read the rules you do realise that the author used two words with different meaning. "has" and "gain" .
A model that wields "a pair of Nemesis falchions" automatically has +1 Attack, because I repeat it wields "a pair of Nemesis falchions". Not because it is a pair of weapons.

When the rules refer to weapons in combat the authors use the word "gain", "bonus attack", "additional attack". They are extra attacks. Attacks that you gain for using X number of the same weapon type. A "pair" means "two". Since nemesis weapons are special and not normal weapons, a "wielder of a pair of Nemesis falchions" means "a wielder of two of the same special weapon". And for this reason you "gain one additional attack".

To conclude, you don't have +2 attacks and you don't get +2 attacks. You have +1 Attack because of the use of the falchions and you gain +1 attack in close combat because of the two same weapons in each hand.

I emphasize the "a" in attack because that's the way they are written in the rules. For falchions is "Attack" and for close combat weapons it's "attack".

Tottaly Agreed!

I think it's slightly silly to think falchion will be allowed to give purifiers 5 attacks charging

not really, look up the YMDC thread to see the arguments as to why it is neither overpowered nor against the rules.

the basic gist was that Falchions are super expensive realtive to the GKs base cost and inherent abilities that only +2As actually justifies their cost.

Disagree , I don't think for a second that GW will allow Purifers have to have 5 attacks with force weapons ( paired up with hammerhand or MoT) .

TL Shaggy wrote:Disagree , I don't think for a second that GW will allow Purifers have to have 5 attacks with force weapons ( paired up with hammerhand or MoT) .

Yet you offer absolutely no rational basis for this.

As was said: reread the thread, notice you are now making ~30ppm PAGK that die as easily as 16ppm Marines. Or making expensive GKTs that dont perform as well as LC armed terminators.

When you have to take a leadership test on 3d6 in order to target a C. assassin during the shooting phase, how does this affect template weapons? In other words, if a large blast template is aimed at a nearby unit and it scatters, does the shooter still have to take the leadership test?

No; you did not target the assassin.

Is cleansing flame always a CC attack for all purposes, or is it a psychic attack that is worded as such to only count towards combat resolution? If so, would cleansing flame deny a squad their invul save that can only be used in CC?
Such as 4+ Witches dodge, or 2+ Nemisis Warding Staves.

ex.

"Unsaved wounds caused by Cleansing Flame are counted as having been caused in close combat for all purposes." pg 31 GK Codex

With the wording above, it states that only when a wound is unsaved (thus having taken an armor save already) then does it become a close combat attack.

Until that point it's a psychic attack that happens before CC happens, only until all saves have been made does it count as a CC attack for purposes of combat resolution. The wording would make the wounds from cleansing flame psychic attacks that happen right before CC but still count for combat resolution.

Thus, denying all CC only invul saves.

Discussion Thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369342.page

The Falchions defiantly is going to need an FAQ/Errata. Before reading through this thread, I had read it as there are two of them in the 'fluff', but you only gain 1 attack, so Purifiers would have 3 attacks. Then reading through this, and looking at point costs, having 4 attacks would make more sense. For terminators, a Daemon hammer is free, where normally a thunder hammer is 30 pts (for other codex's)... and the Falchions is 5 points... So is 1 extra attack (3) worth more than a thunder hammer? Not normally. Then again, why are the Strike Squad Units so cheap. Regular marine, 16 pts, Strike Squad marine, 20 pts. Upgrades:

Storm Bolter - Normally 3 pts
Power Weapon - Normally 15 pts
Force Weapon/Possible instant death - Unknown, but librarians are expensive
Hammerhand - Unknown, but frost blades are normally 25 pts(10 for the +1 strength)..
Warp Quake - Better than Land Speeder Jammer Beacon...

Not overly complaining because at the moment I'm playing the GK, but wow, cheapness. Same with Terms, same price for their upgrades..

Question on Heroic Sacrifice (pg 26) and Gargantuan Creatures in Apocalypse (pg 91).

All gargantuan creates are immune to death, and are not affected by any attack that would normally kill a model automatically (like force weapon, attack that kills on failed characteristic test, etc), but instead cause D3 wounds.

If Heroic Sacrifice hits, both models are removed as casualties.

So it's not an instant death, nor auto kill, it's a 'remove', like remove from play but as a casualty. Also wondering, Super-Heavy vehicles?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kreedos wrote:Is cleansing flame always a CC attack for all purposes, or is it a psychic attack that is worded as such to only count towards combat resolution? If so, would cleansing flame deny a squad their invul save that can only be used in CC?
Such as 4+ Witches dodge, or 2+ Nemisis Warding Staves.

ex.

"Unsaved wounds caused by Cleansing Flame are counted as having been caused in close combat for all purposes." pg 31 GK Codex

With the wording above, it states that only when a wound is unsaved (thus having taken an armor save already) then does it become a close combat attack.

Until that point it's a psychic attack that happens before CC happens, only until all saves have been made does it count as a CC attack for purposes of combat resolution. The wording would make the wounds from cleansing flame psychic attacks that happen right before CC but still count for combat resolution.

Thus, denying all CC only invul saves.

Discussion Thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369342.page

It does say 'Unsaved wounds'.. so before they're unsaved, they aren't caused in close combat. At the same time, the fluff may or may not match. Having the dodge ability won't matter if surrounded by flames of death, but a Stave projects a zone of force around its wielder. Then again, an Assassin has a 4+ invul always due to dodging..

I'm not sure if this has been asked, but what takes precedence? Quiksilver boost to I10, or Daemon Hammer drop to I1

Tylerkabana wrote:I'm not sure if this has been asked, but what takes precedence? Quiksilver boost to I10, or Daemon Hammer drop to I1

Daemon Hammer. It always strikes at I1, regardless of modifiers.

We know that Might of Titan and Hammerhand stack. Does Might of Titan stack with itself? Same with Hammerhand. Page 25.

Watching what happens when a unit of 10 Death Cult accompanied by a GK Librarian that recasts Might of Titan 3 times was silly.

TL Shaggy wrote:Disagree , I don't think for a second that GW will allow Purifers have to have 5 attacks with force weapons ( paired up with hammerhand or MoT) .

For the price at 5 points a model (same as daemonhammer) but only gives 1+ attack? That would never be worth it. Also the fact that the army is an elite army, it's not that unthinkable when you're paying 29 points a model for a Space Marine with a psychic power, power weapons and storm bolter, that they can gain 2+ attacks.

This was answered by a GW rep in a mailed in semi faq already on dakka.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369078.page