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There's a dozen sources that say a lasgun has 25-60 shots at its 'nominal' power setting--which is a higher than basic power setting.

The 'basic' power setting would be what is used almost exclusively when fighting completely unarmored heretics and insurgents.

halonachos wrote:*Ahem*

Previous IG codex, page 16

codex wrote:
Laser technology is reliable and easy to replicate, and although the weapons are not the most powerful they are certainly the most trustworthy. A laser power pack will last for many shots and can be recharged from a standard power source or by exposing its thermal cells to heat or light. In an emergency a pack can be recharged by placing it in a fire, although such treatment tends to shorten the life of the pack and increase the probability of it failing. Many experienced fighters prefer the lasgun over more powerful weapons for these very reasons.

The issue with the lasgun itself is that it fires lasers and has no kinetic energy. So if a guy was being charged by an Ork and shot the ork in the torso, it would hurt the ork but it wouldn't blow him backwards or anything unless the ork reacted to it of his own accord.

An autogun wouldn't knock the ork back either, or else it would rip the arm off the person firing it...

Kanluwen wrote:There's a dozen sources that say a lasgun has 25-60 shots at its 'nominal' power setting--which is a higher than basic power setting.

The 'basic' power setting would be what is used almost exclusively when fighting completely unarmored heretics and insurgents.

Kriegers are at max power with 25 shots. Elysians are at minimum power with about 55 shots. It's not like we're going to 70 shots here. That I could believe is some sort of rare power setting only available on some patterns but people are throwing down 250-300 rounds based on wait is most likely an error in one book.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:Actually it has hundreds of shots at its basic setting. Which just goes to show how high the highest power setting is I suppose.

Nope. That just shows that the imperial uplifting whatever isn't cannon.

Yes it is. It's not the just the IIUP that says this.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:Actually it has hundreds of shots at its basic setting. Which just goes to show how high the highest power setting is I suppose.

Nope. That just shows that the imperial uplifting whatever isn't cannon.

Yes it is. It's not the just the IIUP that says this.

Go on.

In the Cain novels, it is apparent that on normal settings, one goes through quite a damned few shots before one has to replace the weapon. Same with the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. hell, even if you assume that the Vitrians were using completely max settings similar to that of the Krieg, then the standard lasgun still has seventy five shots at least on nominal settings, as they were going through ammunition three times as fast as the Ghosts were. and the Ghosts themselves were not necessarily using weaker settings.

Dark Heresy's ruleset is designed as a balance (it has to be balanced against autoguns and stub weapons, because otherwise the lasgun would be a nobrainer, thus its full auto is removed and it has more limited ammunition than in the lore), not as a perfect fluff representation., and it still has sixty shots in it.

Melissia wrote:In the Cain novels, it is apparent that on normal settings, one goes through quite a damned few shots before one has to replace the weapon. Same with the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. hell, even if you assume that the Vitrians were using completely max settings similar to that of the Krieg, then the standard lasgun still has seventy five shots at least on nominal settings, as they were going through ammunition three times as fast as the Ghosts were. and the Ghosts themselves were not necessarily using weaker settings.

Those aren't numbers. It can be assumed they were using 50 round clips as per the BRB.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:In the Cain novels, it is apparent that on normal settings, one goes through quite a damned few shots before one has to replace the weapon. Same with the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. hell, even if you assume that the Vitrians were using completely max settings similar to that of the Krieg, then the standard lasgun still has seventy five shots at least on nominal settings, as they were going through ammunition three times as fast as the Ghosts were. and the Ghosts themselves were not necessarily using weaker settings.

Those aren't numbers. It can be assumed they were using 50 round clips as per the BRB.

No it can't, as lasguns don't use clips. For that matter, neither do autoguns.

The 40k core rulebook has lots of incorrect information about non-marine factions.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There's a dozen sources that say a lasgun has 25-60 shots at its 'nominal' power setting--which is a higher than basic power setting.

The 'basic' power setting would be what is used almost exclusively when fighting completely unarmored heretics and insurgents.

Kriegers are at max power with 25 shots. Elysians are at minimum power with about 55 shots. It's not like we're going to 70 shots here. That I could believe is some sort of rare power setting only available on some patterns but people are throwing down 250-300 rounds based on wait is most likely an error in one book.

Elysians aren't at minimum power with 'about 55 shots'. They're at nominal, combat strength power with about 55 shots. The only difference is that Elysian lasguns have no automatic fire setting on their weapons, they have single shot 'to conserve ammunition and encourage fire discipline'.

The magical 'nominal' setting which is above the basic point seems to be 60 shots depending on the regiment/lasgun pattern.

That puts it at roughly a hundred shots at 'basic' or even higher on 'low' power. I don't know if Melissia is saying 250-300 rounds and forgetting that the sources saying that are referring to the overall ammunition carried by a Guardsman(which is a clip in the gun and another 2-3 reloads).

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:In the Cain novels, it is apparent that on normal settings, one goes through quite a damned few shots before one has to replace the weapon. Same with the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. hell, even if you assume that the Vitrians were using completely max settings similar to that of the Krieg, then the standard lasgun still has seventy five shots at least on nominal settings, as they were going through ammunition three times as fast as the Ghosts were. and the Ghosts themselves were not necessarily using weaker settings.

Those aren't numbers. It can be assumed they were using 50 round clips as per the BRB.

No it can't, as lasguns don't use clips. For that matter, neither do autoguns.

The 40k core rulebook has lots of incorrect information about non-marine factions.

Way to use semantics to not make a point.

Lets go with Dark Heresy then. What does it say for a standard power cell?

... I already answered that.

Dark Heresy's lasguns have 60 shots per charge pack. They also don't have full auto, which we know lasguns have. The reason for this is because Dark Heresy is a roleplaying game and must balance its weapons out so all of them are reasonable choices, instead of making lasguns the nobrainer choice.

My point remains. Everything says 25-60 rounds except one book that's meant to be comedic. It's more reasonable to assume the one book is in error rather than everything else.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:My point remains. Everything says 25-60 rounds except one book that's meant to be comedic. It's more reasonable to assume the one book is in error rather than everything else.

You mean 22 books, counting all of the Gaunt's Ghosts, the Cain books, and the IIUP.

So basically all of the dedicated Guard fluff books.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:My point remains. Everything says 25-60 rounds except one book that's meant to be comedic. It's more reasonable to assume the one book is in error rather than everything else.

Or you're entirely missing the point that has been laid out before you.

It's 25-60 shots in a combat setting, where troopers ramp up the power being drained for each shot. A 'basic' charge shot would feasibly be stopped by flak armor. The 'combat' setting can deal significantly more damage, while not damaging the charge pack.

And quite frankly, it's not meant to be "comedic". It's meant to be propaganda.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:My point remains. Everything says 25-60 rounds except one book that's meant to be comedic. It's more reasonable to assume the one book is in error rather than everything else.

You mean 22 books, counting all of the Gaunt's Ghosts, the Cain books, and the IIUP.

So basically all of the dedicated Guard fluff books.

The Gaunt books never say that. And unless you can provide a number neither do the Cain ones. What happened is you read the IIUP and it corrupted your imagination while reading the others.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:My point remains. Everything says 25-60 rounds except one book that's meant to be comedic. It's more reasonable to assume the one book is in error rather than everything else.

You mean 22 books, counting all of the Gaunt's Ghosts, the Cain books, and the IIUP.

So basically all of the dedicated Guard fluff books.

The Gaunt books never say that. And unless you can provide a number neither do the Cain ones. What happened is you read the IIUP and it corrupted your imagination while reading the others.

Bare minimum, the Gaunt's Ghosts lasguns have seventy five shots on normal settings. This can be inferred from the Krieg fluff combined with the comments on the Vitrian's fire modes.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:My point remains. Everything says 25-60 rounds except one book that's meant to be comedic. It's more reasonable to assume the one book is in error rather than everything else.

You mean 22 books, counting all of the Gaunt's Ghosts, the Cain books, and the IIUP.

So basically all of the dedicated Guard fluff books.

The Gaunt books never say that. And unless you can provide a number neither do the Cain ones. What happened is you read the IIUP and it corrupted your imagination while reading the others.

Bare minimum, the Gaunt's Ghosts lasguns have seventy five shots on normal settings.

That falls into the realm of "not crazy" but I would have to ask how you came to that conclusion.

Wardragoon wrote:Okay guys this is just my opinion,but Imperial Guard kind of strike me as the United States Army Rangers of the imperium wherein pdf are like the standard army, reasoning behind this logic is the comparitive sizes of those forces, iirc most Imperial guard units are like 60000 men, with support staff, so thats, Wherein PDF forces tend to number in the hundreds of thousands, am I the only one who thinks this or do you guys think the same?

I'd say guardsmen are actually the marines of the imperium. Pdf's would be regular army, for sure.

You have to remember that the Guard is a deployable force, not a stationary or 'presence' force. They come to get the job done, get out, and get to another battle. PDFs just protect their local systems, so yeah, army, or maybe even coasties

Krieg guns have 25 shots at absolute maximum settings. The Vitrians were using a high power setting (not necessarily described as maximal), and were going through charge packs three times as fast as the Ghosts.


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Samus_aran115 wrote:

Wardragoon wrote:Okay guys this is just my opinion,but Imperial Guard kind of strike me as the United States Army Rangers of the imperium wherein pdf are like the standard army, reasoning behind this logic is the comparitive sizes of those forces, iirc most Imperial guard units are like 60000 men, with support staff, so thats, Wherein PDF forces tend to number in the hundreds of thousands, am I the only one who thinks this or do you guys think the same?

I'd say guardsmen are actually the marines of the imperium. Pdf's would be regular army, for sure.

You have to remember that the Guard is a deployable force, not a stationary or 'presence' force. They come to get the job done, get out, and get to another battle. PDFs just protect their local systems, so yeah, army, or maybe even coasties

Coast Guard would be equivalent ot the SDF.

SDF = System Defense Forces. SDF is equivalent to the Imperial Navy how the PDF is equivalent to the Imperial Guard.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Wardragoon wrote:Okay guys this is just my opinion,but Imperial Guard kind of strike me as the United States Army Rangers of the imperium wherein pdf are like the standard army, reasoning behind this logic is the comparitive sizes of those forces, iirc most Imperial guard units are like 60000 men, with support staff, so thats, Wherein PDF forces tend to number in the hundreds of thousands, am I the only one who thinks this or do you guys think the same?

I'd say guardsmen are actually the marines of the imperium. Pdf's would be regular army, for sure.

You have to remember that the Guard is a deployable force, not a stationary or 'presence' force. They come to get the job done, get out, and get to another battle. PDFs just protect their local systems, so yeah, army, or maybe even coasties

I think that is a fairly decent analogy. Thats actually the vibe I got about the DKoK (hard to believe) while reading parts of Dead Men Walking. Although let us be clear that the USMC is not necessarily a superior combat force to the US Army. There is the perspective of this in the general public. Actual combat data shows there to be no real difference between an average platoon of marines and soldiers in terms of battlefield results.

However, there IS, on average, a difference between PDF and Guard. Sure, it's exaggerated at times, just like the differences between an Astartes and a human are exaggerated, but it's still there.

Melissia wrote:Krieg guns have 25 shots at absolute maximum settings. The Vitrians were using a high power setting (not necessarily described as maximal), and were going through charge packs three times as fast as the Ghosts.

Krieg pattern only has one setting "11".

I know your on Necropolis now so I'll give you a little preview of the next one. As I said before despite their light infantry status the Tanith are quite an advanced regiment/people. Besides the directional, personal micro-beads and camoline cloaks their Nalwood-pattern Lasguns are totally kickass. The don't use the same power cell as the vast bulk of The Imperium. They're a bit of a pain in the ass as far as the Munitorium is concerned.
You mentioned that DH doesn't say that lasguns have full-auto but we know they do. That is somewhat true. We know that some patterns are. We know Nalwood are and I'm sure Cadian are too but as you've argued the IG do have better stuff. There are many, many patterns that don't have full-auto. Krieg and Elysian definately don't. In fact, I would guess the majority of Lasguns in the galaxy (which keep in mind incluldes non-IG stuff) don't actually have a full-auto.
Anyways, the point of that was that the Tanith Lasgun is already pretty kick-ass for having full-auto and it's reasonable to assume their power cell, which we know is different, may be of a superior make despite that not being specifically declared. Not a hot-shot pack by any means but not standard issue either.

As I said 70 rounds is reasonble to me anyway on minimal setting so your 75 rounds for specialized kit seems reasonable too. My point is 250 rounds is not. You couldn't crack a clay pidgeon with that, let alone an evil heretic pidgeon.

High (not full) power is enough to cut through power armor and decapitate a Marine. I hardly think that normal power settings would have any problems dealing with pottery.

And I'm past Necropolis by now.

What are you talking about? A Lasgun on max power is AP "-".

Hellguns/Hotshots are a whole other thing.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:What are you talking about? A Lasgun on max power is AP "-".

Hellguns/Hotshots are a whole other thing.

First Gaunt book. Normal settings just clanged against the armor, but the vitrian who switched his gun back to high power decapitated the marine.

Hellguns are just exceptionally powerful and high powered lasguns, after all. In fact, all las technology works in basically the same way, with the main difference being that heavier guns can handle more heat in their barrels (a lasgun using hotshot packs at max power is gonna have to replace its barrel far more often than a hellgun using the same ammo, for example).

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:Krieg guns have 25 shots at absolute maximum settings. The Vitrians were using a high power setting (not necessarily described as maximal), and were going through charge packs three times as fast as the Ghosts.

Krieg pattern only has one setting "11".

I know your on Necropolis now so I'll give you a little preview of the next one. As I said before despite their light infantry status the Tanith are quite an advanced regiment/people. Besides the directional, personal micro-beads and camoline cloaks their Nalwood-pattern Lasguns are totally kickass. The don't use the same power cell as the vast bulk of The Imperium. They're a bit of a pain in the ass as far as the Munitorium is concerned.
You mentioned that DH doesn't say that lasguns have full-auto but we know they do. That is somewhat true. We know that some patterns are. We know Nalwood are and I'm sure Cadian are too but as you've argued the IG do have better stuff. There are many, many patterns that don't have full-auto. Krieg and Elysian definately don't.

Actually, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, the Krieg lasguns in Dead Men Walking do have full auto setting (the alternative is that the PDF lasguns in Dead Men Walking have full auto and I'm confusing the two, but I seem to remember DK going full auto on the Necrons at some point).

Yes, but like I said before a grot derringer can kill a Terminator because $#!+ happens but I wouldn't classify a lasgun as "Armour Piercing."

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Yes, but like I said before a grot derringer can kill a Terminator because $#!+ happens but I wouldn't classify a lasgun as "Armour Piercing."

Except that it is, all it takes is a higher power setting. This is made abundantly clear in any of the various fluff sources that mention power settings.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Yes, but like I said before a grot derringer can kill a Terminator because $#!+ happens but I wouldn't classify a lasgun as "Armour Piercing."

Except that it is, all it takes is a higher power setting. This is made abundantly clear in any of the various fluff sources that mention power settings.

Well I wouldn't doubt that the Vitrians have a top-notch lasgun too. I don't if they're number 1 on my list of "weird but cool regiments" but they're definately up there with the reversible, glass, lamellar armour with built in battle-bible made in their spiralling glass cites.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:Actually it has hundreds of shots at its basic setting. Which just goes to show how high the highest power setting is I suppose.

Nope. That just shows that the imperial uplifting whatever isn't cannon.

Why not? Dan Abnet was helping them about fluff with Graham McNeill. It's same thing as saying that Imperial Armory isn't fluff.


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Melissia wrote:High (not full) power is enough to cut through power armor and decapitate a Marine. I hardly think that normal power settings would have any problems dealing with pottery.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:What are you talking about? A Lasgun on max power is AP "-".

And what are you too talking about? Don't mix tabletop rules and fluff. I seen ot tabletop a squad of Guardsman trying to kill one Ork Nob. In comics I have seen lashot going through the Ork Nob in one shot. In novels I haveread about one Lasshot one Ork Boy, and that was on normal setting. And it is stated that Lasgun can penetrate Space Marine power armor in one shot ( if you heat weak spot ) and be use to destroy a vehicle ( like Dreadnought ). When you cane to see it Lasgun is not that weak.