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daedalus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Lord of Baal wrote:Well it's fan based, thats one thing for sure. And they really don't need to be exact how GW tells them too. Take a good look at some of the marine shots they took, they aren't really that exact or anything.

Yes, clearly there's no reason for them to be exact. The licensing manager just tells them to be "closesies".


I'd suggest you reread your post, and realize just how uninformed you sound.

So then we should consider Space Marine, the DoW games, Fire Warrior, and Chaos Gate to be canon?

Space Marine and the DoW games, yes.

Fire Warrior and Chaos Gate not so much.
Fire Warrior is in kind of a weird spot where it's "kind of/sort of", but because it was before GW really started cracking down on their licensees--it's best to just pretend it never happened.

i always thought that they were 3meters tall to equal an ork, i mean after all they were desingned to fight the agile eldar and the brute ork....
well that was my impresion

That may just be true.

Well thank the great heavens we have your approval.

Monster Rain wrote:Ahem.

According to Blood Reaver, some of them are. You can't just throw out canon background because you don't like what it says.

The range of Space Marine height reaches at least 3 M on some occasions.

I can throw out fringe canon from a dubious and non-mainstream/acclaimed author easily. Watch me: That author has no idea what he was talking about, just like the author that wrote of Primarch Rubinek or the Iron Hearts, or the Desert Lions Legion, or the forgeworld author that wrote that a Land Raider's armor is equivalent to a Tiger II and lighter than a modern battle tank.

Not. Canon.

Sorry, no 10 foot space marines.

ph34r wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Ahem.

According to Blood Reaver, some of them are. You can't just throw out canon background because you don't like what it says.

The range of Space Marine height reaches at least 3 M on some occasions.

I can throw out fringe canon from a dubious and non-mainstream/acclaimed author easily. Watch me: That author has no idea what he was talking about, just like the author that wrote of Primarch Rubinek or the Iron Hearts, or the Desert Lions Legion, or the forgeworld author that wrote that a Land Raider's armor is equivalent to a Tiger II and lighter than a modern battle tank.

Not. Canon.

Sorry, no 10 foot space marines.

Other than y'know, Arjac Rockfist?

Seriously. "On some occasions" it's completely believable that you'll find outlier examples of Astartes being 10 feet tall. But nowhere does he say that it's the standard.

Right - there are some Marines on the extreme end in terms of height, but most will be in that 7+' to 8+' range in armor...

This topic again?

As per Jes Goodwin, Space Marines in power armour are 7 to 7.6 feet on average. This is shown on both his lifesize drawing as well as mentioned on GW's podcast #4 - where Jes actually laughs about how big some novel authors make them, joking that Marines get bigger with every book.

Authors working on licensed products are quite simply not required to stick as closely to the studio material as a lot of people tend to think.

"It all stems from the assumption that there’s a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or ‘true’ representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."
- Andy Hoare on the subject of novel canonicity

Oh, and given the way "averages" work ... for every single Marine exceeding that height there will be ones that would have to be smaller than 7 feet, so be careful what you wish for.

Kanluwen wrote:

Lord of Baal wrote:Well it's fan based, thats one thing for sure. And they really don't need to be exact how GW tells them too. Take a good look at some of the marine shots they took, they aren't really that exact or anything.

Yes, clearly there's no reason for them to be exact. The licensing manager just tells them to be "closesies".

Well, the devs already publicly admitted on their own forums that the game takes place in a parallel timeline in order to explain away their 2nd Company Captain not being the guy that Codex material says. Also serves to explain the "Vengeance launcher" and other stuff they invented for the game. Who knows what else is different in that alternate reality.

You mean the "Vengeance" pattern Grenade Launcher, which is the only thing that does not currently exist?

My God, how dare they create something which is relatively standard in most games!

Lynata wrote:This topic again?

As per Jes Goodwin, Space Marines in power armour are 7 to 7.6 feet on average. This is shown on both his lifesize drawing as well as mentioned on GW's podcast #4 - where Jes actually laughs about how big some novel authors make them, joking that Marines get bigger with every book.

Authors working on licensed products are quite simply not required to stick as closely to the studio material as a lot of people tend to think.

"It all stems from the assumption that there’s a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or ‘true’ representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."
- Andy Hoare on the subject of novel canonicity

Oh, and given the way "averages" work ... for every single Marine exceeding that height there will be ones that would have to be smaller than 7 feet, so be careful what you wish for.

Kanluwen wrote:

Lord of Baal wrote:Well it's fan based, thats one thing for sure. And they really don't need to be exact how GW tells them too. Take a good look at some of the marine shots they took, they aren't really that exact or anything.

Yes, clearly there's no reason for them to be exact. The licensing manager just tells them to be "closesies".

Well, the devs already publicly admitted on their own forums that the game takes place in a parallel timeline in order to explain away their 2nd Company Captain not being the guy that Codex material says. Also serves to explain the "Vengeance launcher" and other stuff they invented for the game. Who knows what else is different in that alternate reality.

The Vengeance Launcher is native to that forge world. There are millions of non standard weapons in the Imperium.

Kanluwen wrote:You mean the "Vengeance" pattern Grenade Launcher, which is the only thing that does not currently exist?

My God, how dare they create something which is relatively standard in most games!

Hey, I'm not really complaining about them inventing things. Obviously GW doesn't mind, just like other licensed products got green light for this kind of stuff as well. I just find it odd that people would claimit is "canon" when it is obviously deviating from it. Though I have to say that the "alternate timeline" cop-out does sound a little lame and was not truly necessary. THQ and GW just need to learn to communicate their stance on canonicity better to the community instead of explaining their way around expectations that are based on nothing more than wishful thinking.

I have also yet to see that "mini-lascannon" in the studio material, by the way. Not that I would deem it impossible that GW would pick up the idea, mind you.

And Stalker bolters work way differently from how it is presented in that game, too.

Soladrin wrote:The Vengeance Launcher is native to that forge world.

Well, obviously it was manufactured for use by Space Marines.

No, Stalker shells work way differently from how it's presented in Space Marine.

Stalker Bolters work exactly like normal bolters do.
And again with the "mini-Lascannon", despite it being in FFG/GW material...

You are a singularly irksome individual.

So.. has it occured to no one that this game doesn't have to take place at exact same time as the current codex's foc? Captain's die all the time.

Terminators are differnet.Theyare big @$$,capital @.10-12 feet would be my guess.I firmly believe in the 8ft,as this is what I have heard from every source not here.

Kanluwen wrote:No, Stalker shells work way differently from how it's presented in Space Marine.
Stalker Bolters work exactly like normal bolters do.

If "Stalker bolters" (which are really just normal boltguns equipped with a targeter and silencer) would work exactly the same as normal bolters in the game you could auto-fire.
That Stalker shells do way more damage than normal rounds is just yet another inconsistency, though I can see why they went for it. A sniper rifle makes more sense for the weapon setup of this game than a "silenced MP5", especially given that the focus lies on fast action and not on sneaking around and avoiding discovery.

Kanluwen wrote:And again with the "mini-Lascannon", despite it being in FFG/GW material...

FFG/BI, please. And no, even the RPG (which has introduced a lot of funny ideas that go against studio material) makes a clear reference to separate power packs and this weapon being crewed by two people.

Kanluwen wrote:You are a singularly irksome individual.

Thanks, you too.

Soladrin wrote:So.. has it occured to no one that this game doesn't have to take place at exact same time as the current codex's foc? Captain's die all the time.

Studio material does not leave any room between the 2nd's old Captain and the new one, there is a direct line of succession that would get broken by the game as it has to take place between 745.M41 and 999-M41 due to events mentioned in the backstory.

THQ realized this and said it just takes place in an alternate timeline. Problem solved.

Deadshot wrote:Terminators are differnet.Theyare big @$$,capital @.10-12 feet would be my guess.I firmly believe in the 8ft,as this is what I have heard from every source not here.

I've seen a picture of Magnus the Red standing next to a couple of Terminators.

Unless Magnus is like 20-24 feet tall, that seems a bit much for them IMO.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:No, Stalker shells work way differently from how it's presented in Space Marine.
Stalker Bolters work exactly like normal bolters do.

If "Stalker bolters" (which are really just normal boltguns equipped with a targeter and silencer) would work exactly the same as normal bolters in the game you could auto-fire.
That Stalker shells do way more damage than normal rounds is just yet another inconsistency, though I can see why they went for it. A sniper rifle makes more sense for the weapon setup of this game than a "silenced MP5", especially given that the focus lies on fast action and not on sneaking around and avoiding discovery.

Suppressors are not silencers. "Muffling" the report and producing no muzzle flash is a different story.

And you can autofire the Stalker. It just doesn't have a very big clip.

Kanluwen wrote:Suppressors are not silencers. "Muffling" the report and producing no muzzle flash is a different story.

And you can autofire the Stalker. It just doesn't have a very big clip.

You can? I could have sworn I tried that in the demo, but maybe it was just an "instinctive" use of single clicks. Though the description on the game's website does say the gun is locked to semi-auto.

Guess I'll just have to play the demo again. It's not like it wasn't any fun, anyways.

I'll concede to you the difference between suppressors and silencers, though. Guess my mind was a bit closer to that "silenced MP5" than was warranted.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Terminators are differnet.Theyare big @$$,capital @.10-12 feet would be my guess.I firmly believe in the 8ft,as this is what I have heard from every source not here.

I've seen a picture of Magnus the Red standing next to a couple of Terminators.

Unless Magnus is like 20-24 feet tall, that seems a bit much for them IMO.

He was a primarch.He amkes Termies look like dwarves,and PA look like squats.Next to humans,they arer oompa-loompas.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Suppressors are not silencers. "Muffling" the report and producing no muzzle flash is a different story.

And you can autofire the Stalker. It just doesn't have a very big clip.

You can? I could have sworn I tried that in the demo, but maybe it was just an "instinctive" use of single clicks. Though the description on the game's website does say the gun is locked to semi-auto.

Guess I'll just have to play the demo again. It's not like it wasn't any fun, anyways.

I'll concede to you the difference between suppressors and silencers, though. Guess my mind was a bit closer to that "silenced MP5" than was warranted.

The problem is that the Stalker round was developed exclusively for the Stalker Boltgun, and when the two are used in tandem by a Scout like Naaman or Telion, it becomes an assassin's tool.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Terminators are differnet.Theyare big @$$,capital @.10-12 feet would be my guess.I firmly believe in the 8ft,as this is what I have heard from every source not here.

I've seen a picture of Magnus the Red standing next to a couple of Terminators.

Unless Magnus is like 20-24 feet tall, that seems a bit much for them IMO.

Pre heresy?

Anyway, Magnus is the biggest primarch, and well, a Daemonprince now, he can take any size he likes.

Void__Dragon wrote:
I've seen a picture of Magnus the Red standing next to a couple of Terminators.

Were you also aware that changing his size was one of Magnus' most used abilities in battle? It was.

And if for all the people who don't think 7 feet tall is figgen gigantic, take a couple minutes to google up pictures of Shaq standing next to humans. Go ahead, we'll wait.

Ok, now Space Marines are only a few inches taller, but 400 pounds heavier too. That's pretty gigantic.

My cousin's distant brother in connection twice removed or something,is about 7ft.My mother's third cousin's nephew or something is 6ft 9.They are pretty damn huge.

Lynata wrote:
Oh, and given the way "averages" work ... for every single Marine exceeding that height there will be ones that would have to be smaller than 7 feet, so be careful what you wish for.

Sure, if we were talking about 'averages' and 'normal' things.

Marines start at 7' and go up from there.

There have been many stories about very tall marines.

I can't think of any with very short ones...

Kanluwen wrote:The problem is that the Stalker round was developed exclusively for the Stalker Boltgun, and when the two are used in tandem by a Scout like Naaman or Telion, it becomes an assassin's tool.

There really is no such thing as a special "Stalker boltgun". It's a normal off-the-mill bolter with attachments. Explained that way in the original DW Kill Team CA rules. In fact, the exact wording is "a normal bolter equipped with an M.40 targeter with auto-sense link and Stalker silenced shells".
It's not the original author's fault that other writers didn't get the idea and made a special gun out of it. *shrugs*

But yes, naturally the full potential of a Stalker round can only unfold when used in conjunction with the aforementioned attachments.

Alpharius wrote:Marines start at 7' and go up from there.

Mhm. The average starts at 7' and ends at 7'6". When there's something above it, there also has to be something below, else the average would be higher.
Of course, this "balancing" could also be done with very few Marines above that size and lots of Astartes that are just barely below it.

Alpharius wrote:There have been many stories about very tall marines.

Indeed, that's what Jes was joking about.

That said, "tall" is of course also a very relative term. Even "just" 7 feet is already massive. But we touched upon that in another thread, complete with photos of people who are that size. It's also worth pointing out that Jes stressed the importance of a Marine's general "bulkiness". For him, what makes Marines so massive isn't their height at all, it's their width.

DarknessEternal wrote:Were you also aware that changing his size was one of Magnus' most used abilities in battle? It was.

Well, he wasn't in battle in the picture.

I was also of the impression that he just mentally impressed a more imposing (Or less imposing, if interacting with humans) figure onto the minds of others, not that he literally altered his size. Though, I can't really recall if it was elaborated on.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The problem is that the Stalker round was developed exclusively for the Stalker Boltgun, and when the two are used in tandem by a Scout like Naaman or Telion, it becomes an assassin's tool.

There really is no such thing as a special "Stalker boltgun". It's a normal off-the-mill bolter with attachments. Explained that way in the original DW Kill Team CA rules. In fact, the exact wording is "a normal bolter equipped with an M.40 targeter with auto-sense link and Stalker silenced shells".
It's not the original author's fault that other writers didn't get the idea and made a special gun out of it. *shrugs*

But yes, naturally the full potential of a Stalker round can only unfold when used in conjunction with the aforementioned attachments.

And the Stalker has been evolved since then. It's been evolved for quite awhile, in fact.

Magnus didn't actually change his size. He simply used his psychic powers on enemies to make it seem like he was a friggin giant primarch.

Not sure if anyone has posted this idea yet but I think a good way at looking at their height is to look at the Spartans from Halo. They are also augmented into super humans and they also wear 'power' armor. In the cut scenes from the games the Master Chief is at least two foot taller than a marine and a lot more bulky. Just a thought.

Kanluwen wrote:And the Stalker has been evolved since then. It's been evolved for quite awhile, in fact.

I'm sure it did - in various licensed products, where Space Marines have "evolved" into being way over 8 feet in height, where Vindicare Assassins have "evolved" into being permanently attached to some Inquisitor's retinue, and where the Schola Progenium has "evolved" into discarding its gender seperation and high requirements on the purity of its staff.
Until GW adopts such evolution for their own books, it remains the various writers' own interpretation of the setting, though.