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Why this thread again...


(taken from warhammer 40k wikia)


"the Space Marine's skeleton will be larger and exponentially stronger than a normal man's with growth having topped out at around 7-7.5 feet in height"

This pic isn't right...

Dark Angels Champ-Master wrote:This pic isn't right...

Oh, well that changes everything.

Dark Angels Champ-Master wrote:This pic isn't right...

On what do you base this?

I think the work that Phil had put into this is very good and well thought out, and pulls together quite well the different interpretations of Space Marine physiology.

I don't see what the debate is about; if the average height of a Marine is seven and a half feet, with a couple of extra inches for armour, that's pretty bloody gigantic when you also consider their bulk.

While I enjoy the "artscale" depictions some of the GW artists do, and that have been realised in model form during some of the more notable truescale modelling efforts, they can't be taken as evidence of larger marines; by those scales, marines would be ten+ feet tall, and that's just impractical.

Remember, marines still have to operate in cities and ships designed for normal human occupation; an almost-eight-foot mantank is already less than ideally suited to such terrain, with only their vast strength and ability to shoulder through normal walls making it feasible.

And don't even get me started on Terminator armour; any design that requires the wearer to dislocate both shoulders and break their neck to fit inside is rubbish. The way that GW have carried forward the legacy of "backbreaker" termies from their early models annoys me no end, and it's taken me nearly an entire sketchbook's worth of my shoddy concept drawings to suitably remedy it. Not to mention the idea of the armour adding such a large amount to a marine's height is daft; take a regular marine, add the "hood", larger pads, and thicker plating, and you have sensible terminator armour - none of this ten-feet-tall from soles to hairline rubbish.

Due to the black Carapace,a space marine's armour replicates his movements.

Terminator armour would probably be opened at the front to allow entry,or be computer assembled around him,like in Iron Man.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Actually, according to my reading they might be taller. I've heard of them being up to 3 meters.

Your reading isn't in anything official then.

If we discount the Grey Knights by Ben Counter, then yeah I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the color purple wrote:I don't get why people are so fixated on space marines being so big. It really wouldn't provide any combat benefit, and in fact would be a big negative for marines operating underground, in cities, in boarding actions, etc.

I always thought it would be funny reading about a terminator boarding party attempting to navigate a Tau vessel.

"Sir, we have teleported across, but Brother Jobe is stuck in the doorway. Damn these tiny Xenos!"

Lol.

I would agree that's funny,but in reality the Brother Jobe(who's name was taken from the Battle report in WD370,Dreadknight pilot,I believe)would take is power fist or Daemon Hammer(or even his bare fist)and smash it down.Or simply muscle through.

Deadshot wrote:Lol.

I would agree that's funny,but in reality the Brother Jobe(who's name was taken from the Battle report in WD370,Dreadknight pilot,I believe)would take is power fist or Daemon Hammer(or even his bare fist)and smash it down.Or simply muscle through.

True (and yeah, I think thats where the name came from, lol) but I'd still have to say that any warrior so heavy and bulky would be at a large disadvantage when fighting in any kind of cramped conditions.

I mean if nothing else, a Marine could never fight in a multi-story building, as he'd fall right through the floor!

Any building in 40k that couldn't support the weight of a marine didn't deserve to stay standing.

All buildings in 40K worth the name are built from reinforced ferrocrete and adamantine girders.

... or something. Still, Imperial buildings are built to last thousands of years. Only the lowest of the low Hive-dweller is going to live in a cardboard box.

I think vehicles might be more of a problem. A Rhino totals 2.6 meters in height, and this is including its tracks.

Lynata wrote:I think vehicles might be more of a problem. A Rhino totals 2.6 meters in height, and this is including its tracks.

Not as big an issue as you'd think; have you seen inside a modern APC? They're horrifying little sweatboxes with only barely enough room for the occupants and gear, I think the Rhino could just barely handle ten marines in armour, providing the area under the seats was used for munition storage, and they sat with knees almost touching the opposite rank.

Yodhrin wrote:Not as big an issue as you'd think; have you seen inside a modern APC? They're horrifying little sweatboxes with only barely enough room for the occupants and gear, I think the Rhino could just barely handle ten marines in armour, providing the area under the seats was used for munition storage, and they sat with knees almost touching the opposite rank.

Yeah, I know - the Rhino actually looks pretty comfortable, at least its door is much larger than the one from the (German) APC I rode in.
Still, if some Marines really were 3 meters or even bigger ... I say they just wouldn't fit through either the side door or the top hatch, and considering that they also grow in width when you scale them up like this, I doubt that a Rhino would be able to hold ten of them.

If the GW designers really joked about some BL novel writers for making Marines so ridiculously oversized (sadly I've missed that podcast) then I think it's well deserved. It just seems some of the authors forgot that Marines and normal humans occasionally use the same stuff.

Even Abnett mentions that the SM are huge in the Eisenhorn novels.

I believe one quote, when speaking of some Marines from the White Consuls Chapter:

"that the finger in question was the size and shape of an Arbiter's truncheon was beside the point."

"that the finger in question was the size and shape of an Arbiter's truncheon was beside the point."

I hope that was in power armour with a thick gauntlet, for otherwise that Marine would have to be five meters high or something.

Arbiter's truncheon

oo - er misses

Just stumbled over this out of pure accident, by the way - thought it might be interesting to some, given that it deals with armour thickness, lasgun-vs-Marine efficiency and the ability of an Astartes to move in unpowered armour:

"Individual plates of armour can be up to an inch thick and have a special 'honeycomb' design which helps to dissipate energy and localise any damage suffered by the suit. Against most small arms the armour reduces the chance of injury by between 50-85%, and it provides some form of protection against all except the most powerful weapons encountered on the battlefields of the 41st millennium.
[...]
On its own a suit of power armour weighs over 250 lbs, and even a Space Marine would find it difficult to move while wearing it were it not for the electrically motivated fibre bundles implanted in the armour."
- from the 2E Marine 'dex.

Actually, the Marine in question was having tea. The reason the comment about the finger was made was that the Marine was drinking from a human-sized teacup... pinky extended and everything.

Seems a bit excessive even for Dan's oversized Marines. But props for the extended pinky! XD

I am loath to respond to this thread as it appears weekly it seems, but the drawing being shown here is odd looking because the marine's arms are far to short. This marine wouldn't be able to wipe his hind end...

I think they still need to do that in the 41st millenium.

Or maybe this is the true purpose for the servitors?

Most house-hold ceilings are 8ft tall so 7ft to 7ft 6 seems reasonable for Space Marines otherwise they would get sore necks and heads going through civilian buildings.

Cheesecat wrote:Most house-hold ceilings are 8ft tall so 7ft to 7ft 6 seems reasonable for Space Marines otherwise they would get sore necks and heads going through civilian buildings.

Maybe in the real world, but this is 40K we're talking about. Every building is a cathedral, with ceilings soaring 10, 20, 30 meters overhead, feth-off huge stained glass windows everywhere, torches and candelabras the size of Rhinos, and servo-skulls and Cherubim flapping about everywhere.

There's some truth to that, but it gets problematic when you intend to have Space Marines fight something other than Imperials.

Also, space ships - despite sporting vast cathedral windows and gun-halls - are often described as very cramped, its armsmen favoring shotguns over sniper rifles. I think they would have rather small bulkheads, too. Also easier to close and seal off in case of an emergency.

In the end, few buildings and vehicles are built specifically for Space Marine proportions. We know the Rhino isn't.

They say that... but, then, Space Hulks are these cavernous things, with wide grill-work halls or floors plated in adamantine sheets.

I think that all ships in the 40K universe, regardless of faction of origin, are actually built of the apparently-common metal called "Plotanium". Plotanium has a rather elastic molecular nature, in that it seems to hold its shape for the most part, until the story elements call for a passage to be cramped and narrow, or a given chamber within a space ship to be huge and sweeping.

Psienesis wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:Most house-hold ceilings are 8ft tall so 7ft to 7ft 6 seems reasonable for Space Marines otherwise they would get sore necks and heads going through civilian buildings.

Maybe in the real world, but this is 40K we're talking about. Every building is a cathedral, with ceilings soaring 10, 20, 30 meters overhead, feth-off huge stained glass windows everywhere, torches and candelabras the size of Rhinos, and servo-skulls and Cherubim flapping about everywhere.

I'm pretty sure some civilian buildings don't have cathedral-like proportions, like a shanty town in a hive city for example.

Yodhrin wrote:

Lynata wrote:I think vehicles might be more of a problem. A Rhino totals 2.6 meters in height, and this is including its tracks.

Not as big an issue as you'd think; have you seen inside a modern APC? They're horrifying little sweatboxes with only barely enough room for the occupants and gear, I think the Rhino could just barely handle ten marines in armour, providing the area under the seats was used for munition storage, and they sat with knees almost touching the opposite rank.

QTF!

I'm pretty sure some civilian buildings don't have cathedral-like proportions, like a shanty town in a hive city for example.

Again, Plotanium. It's all built of Plotanium. A Rhino is cramped and uncomfortable for a pack of IG riding in it... but roomy and spacious when a dozen Space Marines pile into the back. That Hive-slum? A flak-board box with a leaky roof and rat-eaten stairs when filled with normal residents... it becomes a ferro-crete Gothic cathedral when a Space Marine so much as *thinks* about stepping into it.

Plotanium! Don't build your Dark Future without it!

That reminds me of something...