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Daba wrote:So standing straight, he would be around 7'-7'6", which is what the studio said. If you listen to one of the podcasts Jes Goodwin and Jervis joke about the way BL authors keep exaggerating their height.

Heh, good point about the legs apart / standing straight - this would actually explain where the 7'6" come from. I'll incorporate this into my perception.

Do you have a link to that podcast, perchance? Could be funny.

Daba wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Jes Goodwin has a lifesize sketch he did early on. That's 8 feet tall, in armor that really doesn't add much to their height.

If he floats one feet above the ground, yes.

Or if you realize that the 'ground' is the point where you start measuring from, then yes.

Look closely at the scale, count down from the 8. Note that the 'ground' level for the Marine is labelled 1'.

He does have his legs spread out, but that won't take a foot off his height.

So standing straight, he would be around 7'-7'6", which is what the studio said.

When I stand in the pose that the Marine is standing in, it takes a good 3/4 of a foot off my height. It's a ridiculous pose to use for a scale.

If you listen to one of the podcasts Jes Goodwin and Jervis joke about the way BL authors keep exaggerating their height.

Yes, many BL authors do keep exaggerating their height.

However the core BL authors, especially Abnett who's been involved for a long time and has helped shape 40k to what we have now in terms of the background point towards 8 feet being the 'average' for an Astartes now.

Kanluwen wrote:However the core BL authors, especially Abnett who's been involved for a long time and has helped shape 40k to what we have now in terms of the background point towards 8 feet being the 'average' for an Astartes now.

Well, there's a reason where the term "Abnettverse" comes from, is there not?

Yeah thats true. There probably could have been a stunt in growth, and that they are so old too.

Correction, since I actually just got someone to mark the height difference rather than eyeballing it from a camera.

It leaves a 3.5 inch difference going from straightbacked, rigid position to the bowlegged position of the Astartes in the Goodwin comparison.

I go from 5 feet 9 inches to 5 feet, 5.5 inches.

Alfndrate wrote:I know Abnett refers to Space Marines as "Giants" in his books... 5-6 foot human... I would probably say 8 feet is on the lower end of giant sized, who knows man. I wait for proof from both sides.

You ever met anyone who is 7-8ft? That is pretty damn gigantic

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:However the core BL authors, especially Abnett who's been involved for a long time and has helped shape 40k to what we have now in terms of the background point towards 8 feet being the 'average' for an Astartes now.

Well, there's a reason where the term "Abnettverse" comes from, is there not?

Yeah, it is. The Abnettverse is also regarded as the most canon thing that hasn't come from the principal minds responsible for 40k.

SilverMK2 wrote:You ever met anyone who is 7-8ft? That is pretty damn gigantic

Two things that shows us.
1) 7-8' looks about right, and dose cover giant
2) space marines wear corsets.

Look up ted van der parre. Worlds talest strong man. 7' tall and 350lbs. Id guess that he would give you some idea of what a marine withou armour would be, if thay were in a 70s cop show.

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, it is. The Abnettverse is also regarded as the most canon thing that hasn't come from the principal minds responsible for 40k.

The internet - I just did a real quick search on the term "Abnettverse" - seems to disagree with your assessment.
Well, apparently there actually are quite a lot of people who think like you do concerning his novels, but there's just as much people - or a small deal more - who say the opposite. Personally, I think the quality of his novels and the general feeling he evokes just give him more leeway than other writers. He does good books, so people are willing to take his word over those of another author.

Not that this has any meaning, mind you. At the end of the day it matters little what a perceived(!) majority thinks. If it's going against what the people at GW said it's still wrong. See the comments from Gav Thorpe, Andy Hoare, etc.

Kanluwen wrote:

Daba wrote:

He does have his legs spread out, but that won't take a foot off his height.

So standing straight, he would be around 7'-7'6", which is what the studio said.

When I stand in the pose that the Marine is standing in, it takes a good 3/4 of a foot off my height. It's a ridiculous pose to use for a scale.

The Marine is standing with his legs slightly further out than his shoulders, this is (generously) 30 degrees from the horizontal (actually 26.56 if you measure but 30 is easier to work with), then if the leg span is roughly half the body height (actually it's lower so this number would be lower), you would need to be 16' tall to take off 1'.

If you lose 3/4 of a foot from your height, then you must be over 10-11' tall yourself or you're standing with your legs much further apart than the ~30 degrees the Marine is standing.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that Space Marines are some crazy height or anything, but I'm pretty sure Jes Goodwin drawing one that's 8 feet tall is a decent starting point.

Monster Rain wrote:Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that Space Marines are some crazy height or anything, but I'm pretty sure Jes Goodwin drawing one that's 7 feet tall is a decent starting point.

Fixed that for you

Monster Rain wrote:Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that Space Marines are some crazy height or anything, but I'm pretty sure Jes Goodwin drawing one that's 8 feet tall is a decent starting point.

He's drawing one that's 7'-and-a-bit tall. The scale starts at 1' and counts to 8', there is no 0-1' in the diagram.

If you take into account his legs being apart, he gains between 3-6" on his total height, but that's in armour including the crest of his helmet and the soles of his boots.

That pic doesn't look quite right.

SilverMK2 wrote:You ever met anyone who is 7-8ft? That is pretty damn gigantic

I've had a few co-workers that are 7ft tall. Yes, Darth Vader was an appropriate nickname for them, but 7ft still seems "in range". If you really have to duck a good foot or so to get through a door, you're a giant... you're reaching Space Marine height

But it's not 7-6, that pic must be wrong

Alfndrate wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:You ever met anyone who is 7-8ft? That is pretty damn gigantic

I've had a few co-workers that are 7ft tall. Yes, Darth Vader was an appropriate nickname for them, but 7ft still seems "in range". If you really have to duck a good foot or so to get through a door, you're a giant... you're reaching Space Marine height

You're forgetting that Astartes are not only tall, they're impossibly broad and muscular. A 7'6" guy with the bulk of 4 bodybuilders would certainly qualify as a giant in my book. Also note that marines generally don't have to stoop through doors or down corridors. 8+ foot marines would be incapable of sitting in Rhino seats, fitting through doors, etc.

I don't get why people are so fixated on space marines being so big. It really wouldn't provide any combat benefit, and in fact would be a big negative for marines operating underground, in cities, in boarding actions, etc.

The "impossibly large" part of Space Marines doesn't come from their height. Although 7' is reasonably taller than most of you people claiming it's too short are actually imagining.

Their super-human largeness is two-fold, and they are both related to bulk. A space marine doesn't look like a 7' tall human, such as a basketball player. He looks like a comic-book over-muscled guy, who also happens to be 7' tall. As in, totally out of human proportion in girth, muscle-mass, and even muscle locations. A Space Marine is as tall as Shaq, but two and a half times as heavy. And while they have denser bones, and more bone volume, most of that is muscle.

The second factor in their unbelievable bulk is speed. These guys make body builders look like 90 lbs weaklings with their physical build alone. And body builders are noted for their unathleticness because of all that overbuilt muscle mass. Humans don't imagine people that size being fast. However, Space Marines aren't just good athletes. They make our world-class athletes look like children with how much faster they can move.

So you have a guy who's as tall as Shaq, with another one and a half pureed Shaqs distributed over his body, moving faster than hybrid child of Jet Li and Carl Lewis. That's a nightmare to a normal human.

It really wouldn't provide any combat benefit, and in fact would be a big negative for marines operating underground, in cities, in boarding actions, etc.

Except being damn frightening to a number of races, not just humans, and having the strength and mass to wield horrifically powerful weapons, of a kind not often seen without a 3-ton vehicle transporting it, as a frontline, infantry weapon.

Monster Rain wrote:Actually, according to my reading they might be taller. I've heard of them being up to 3 meters.

Kanluwen wrote:8-9 feet is supposed to be 'standard' for Astartes heights outside of their armor.

There's some who are likely pushing 10 feet.

These heights are both so wrong it hurts. Astartes are in the 7-8 foot range, with armor pushing them towards the 8' end of the range.

height would vary depending on the man in question.a tall human(7ft-ish)would make a 9 foot marine.if their termiersd then they would be a minimum of10 ft and thats only if their really small as a human(5ft)

What makes a Terminator so big is the armor, not the guy inside it. Look at them... they have no necks, their heads are almost in the middle of their chests. PA is something you wear... Terminator armor is almost something you pilot.

the color purple wrote:I don't get why people are so fixated on space marines being so big. It really wouldn't provide any combat benefit, and in fact would be a big negative for marines operating underground, in cities, in boarding actions, etc.

I think that in a lot of people's mind, Bigger = Better. Which isn't really true everywhere, as you pointed out, but it's a popular belief that gets built upon in a lot of recent Hollywood movies, or Black Library novels.

It's just like people automatically think Astartes armour has to confer more protection just because its bulkier than the norm, completely foregoing all the additional features that have been built into it that are actually what gives a Marine his versatility. Apart from the fact that a Marine is already bulky by himself and the armour needs to fit him.
Or that Astartes bolters have to do more damage just because they're bigger, never mind that the size difference is both overrated and has no effect on the caliber or that the additional space could, again, be taken up by additional internal systems or the armour plating that some sources mention are added to the guns to make them more resilient in combat.

The whole issue comes down to extreme simplification (placing too much emphasis on "popular" aspects such as only thinking about size and damage whilst forgetting about "less heroic" but just as important details in the background).

That's my analysis, anyways. In today's society, Goliath wins over David, because Goliath is cooler and does bigger explosions.

I for my part am just lucky that GW themselves do not participate in this "size creep". Yet.

Yes the scale on that lifesize marine is wrong. It should be evident though that the marine in armour is supposed to be 8' as the top of the head is purposefully placed at the 8' line. Minus the thickness of the armour and you get a marine that is about seven and a half to seven and three quarters feet high. This is your standard marine, some will be taller and some may even be shorter. That figure seems to be what the people who make the marines and write the codecis regard as the standard height.

The only marines that are close to ten feet are the ones in propaganda posters or exaggerated stories. I used to think eight, but it seems only the black library books say that.

cadbren wrote:Yes the scale on that lifesize marine is wrong.

Wow, that's just painfully ostrich-like.

cadbren wrote:Yes the scale on that lifesize marine is wrong. It should be evident though that the marine in armour is supposed to be 8' as the top of the head is purposefully placed at the 8' line. Minus the thickness of the armour and you get a marine that is about seven and a half to seven and three quarters feet high. This is your standard marine, some will be taller and some may even be shorter. That figure seems to be what the people who make the marines and write the codecis regard as the standard height.

Ah, it's not really evident, considering that it would have been easy for Jes to just draw an 8 feet Marine if he wanted to have one.

If you agree the head was purposefully placed at the "8 feet line", this implies the scale has been there before the Marine, which in turn means that the squares are accurate and somebody just messed up when numbering them.

If it's not supposed to be "to scale", there'd be no point in the entire "lifesize" drawing in the first place.

And power armour really isn't that thick - I suppose the soles would add ~5-6 cm to an Astartes' size, but that's about it. So your average Marine without power armour is not MUCH shorter than 7 feet.

Lynata wrote:I for my part am just lucky that GW themselves do not participate in this "size creep". Yet.

Inbound, 8-foot-tall Canoness, because bigger is better.

Back of the beermat trig agrees with you that the pose of the Space Marine adds ~6 inches to the armoured height.

Psienesis wrote:What makes a Terminator so big is the armor.

thats what i meant when i said it

The Marine size picture is probably accurate, but there's no way an Astartes is that bulky out of armor. They'll be waddling like ducks and god forbid they accidently drop a grenade and attempt to bend over and pick it up....I say a marine is a bit bigger than the basketball player and less wider than the Astartes in that picture.

Edit: Forgot my period