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best: new DE releases. they look much better than the previous ones.

worst: i think finecast wasn't really a great thing.
here at dakka, i've seen many pics and heard many stories about bad casted models. many of them have bubbles and stuff. not really good,now is it?

you do GW for a good year... Just like me

I have to agree that the standard of GW's models gets better and better, although there is somthing special about having metal models to represent characters etc. For me GW was at its best from 90-96 with the likes of Rick Priestly and Andy Chambers driving the 40k bus. Im sure alot of you will put it down to Vet nostalgia (Ive been playing 40k for over 20 years) but GW felt like the driving force of table top gaming back then rather than a waning super power.
On the plus side the Black Library is a real triumph, Forge World models get better every year and hey 40k is still going! The thing is all the positive stuff about GW is driven by the community, excellent sites like this, the rise of Internet TV channels dedicated to table top gaming and our FLGS, its all external to GW itself. Back in the day the community was in the stores, now it kind of feels like we are proping the games up from the outside.

GW at their best has got to be the fluff. I am not a fluff person at all really but it never fails to impress me when you see the level of detail in army books or a shelf of black library novels. Most companies do a good bit of fluff but I think this is where GW are unmatched by anyone out there. They have admitedly had a long long time to get build this fluff.

GW and its complete disregard for the customer. I think we all understand that GW is a company and its out there to make a profit. I would hate to see GW go under as I love their products more than really anyone other company out there, but as we all have discussed over the years, their disregard for the voice of the customer has gotten stronger and strong to the point of people seriously losing their minds with frustration.

GW at their best - Making prominent factions with amazingly detailed background and history, with good models and fun balance.

GW at their worst - Customer pitch and hobby pitch at the moment. Probably one of the worst times to be a hobbiest in Games Workshop, as more of GW's profits are turned to the shareholders rather than making minis and expanding the game.

Pacific wrote:Although it's true the way it was suddenly just withdrawn from stores.

I always seem to remember it was quite popular in store, especially towards the end of RT's lifespan and before 2nd edition came out. A lot of places were really encouraging the Space Marine 2nd edition boxset as it had everything you needed to play in it and was a great entry level system.

Although GW are essentially trying to recreate the same sized battles but in 28mm, I think nothing can ever recreate the feeling of mass battle like having 20,000 points a side of Epic, with a dozen titans and Gargants and massed armoured companies and infantry facing each other

I can't imagine how long it must have taken to play through a 20k point game. My friends and I used to play 10k regularly and those games were all night affairs. The most fun I've ever really had wargaming were those massive battles back in the day.

Hmm we used to have games lasting most of a Sunday (or over a weekend on a couple of occasions) with 2 or 3 players a side. And the two biggest armies were IG and Orks, so masses and masses of units to move!

But you are right, I'm pretty sure that most of the time we didn't finish those games You are right though, there was definitely something.. hmm, 'epic' about that game played on that kind of scale!

At it's best? Modeling, Costumer service, and its great gameplay.

Worst? Cost, sale's pitch (but that doesn't really bother me)

Really I don't have many problems with GW, except for having a hard time buying their stuff sometimes, but for the fun of painting and modeling, the great fun I have during gameplay, and the rich back stories and fluff. I just love 40k and GW gives me what I love so I
ll put up with the prices and have a good time.

Kanluwen wrote:It's an advertising medium. It's no different than No Quarter or Wargaming Illustrated, the only difference is that people cut Privateer Press slack because they put in what they deem to be "better painting articles"(although many of the ones that I saw when the company first started with NQ #1-4 are on par with the WD articles of the time. Eh.) and because it's not GW.

This is a quote from a ways back in the thread, page 2-3 ish, but I couldn't help but call it out.

White Dwarf is really nothing like No Quarter.

Every issue of No Quarter:

Advances the backstory
Gives tactical 'how would you play this' puzzler scenarios
Has detailed painting and terrain building guides
Has a battle report or tournament recap (TOURNAMENT RECAP WUT??)
Showcases hobbyist modeling/contest achievements

In short, it's clear that the goal of No Quarter is to further immerse the reader into PP's universe and hobby, whether through project ideas, backstory, fleshing out the campaign world, recognizing competitive and model/paint achievements of the hobbyists, or by challenging hobbyists with tactical/model and painting puzzles and contests.

White Dwarf is only like No Quarter if you have never actually seen a copy of No Quarter.

You missed the point I was making, but okay.

Privateer Press is just as much "company propaganda" as White Dwarf. They have their material tailored to fit the way their company is done.

I should also note that advancing the backstory is not necessarily a good thing.

Nah I'm pretty sure you missed what Sourclams was saying in your dogged need to defend GW against any criticism whatsoever.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Nah I'm pretty sure you missed what Sourclams was saying in your dogged need to defend GW against any criticism whatsoever.

I'm with HBMC over here. PP makes a magazine that says, "Hey! We're the best!", sure. But it does it in such a way that it doesn't come off as a 9 dollar advert that's other function is to wipe Jervis' ass.

No Quarter! actually has good info, painting tips, fluff, and (Shock, Gasp!) relevant news and other stories pertaining to Warmahordes.

I've never read No Quarter, so I can't hold a valid opinion over its content or quality, but do they post previews of upcoming products more than 2 weeks in advance? Do they make sure you can't get a copy until it's in stores so that no one sees anything before anyone else?

Well, of course not. That would be silly. I wouldn't think any company that wants to keep a customer base would do that kind of misbehavior.

Chowderhead wrote:Well, of course not. That would be silly. I wouldn't think any company that wants to keep a customer base would do that kind of misbehavior.

ah ha haa its funny because Games Workshop does... ahhhh

H.B.M.C. wrote:I've never read No Quarter, so I can't hold a valid opinion over its content or quality, but do they post previews of upcoming products more than 2 weeks in advance? Do they make sure you can't get a copy until it's in stores so that no one sees anything before anyone else?

Now, you might not believe this, just hear me out, Privateer Press puts full-page previews of new, upcoming unit model/artwork/stats in No Quarter as much as 3 months before the model will even be out. Not only that, but they will display the hi-rez model image on the internet at the same time.

Not only that but they release teasers and preview stuff to build hype in the whole lead-up period to any release! Like, we know what all of the epic warlocks in domination will be, but still have no idea of their stats or abilities yet! This gets us into the mindset of both eagerly discovering and already accepting and speculating upon how they will change the factions' playstyle and how the story progression for each individual character will go! It's like we're being included, not just as covetous meatsacks from whom the company must demand currency, but as customers and participants in some sort of overall common interest!

And that basically sums up my 'worst of' for GW. The cynical, patronizing treatment of what should be its core consumer base.

'Best of' would be the Horus Heresy. Even though a few of the novels are steaming piles of garbage (Ben Counter, looking at Battle for the Abysmal here) I can clearly see numerous authors in a grand thematic framework... struggling to be as good as Dan Abnett.

GW best: Some of the absolute best miniatures, vehicles and terrain in the industry. The style isn't for everyone, but it's consistent, well done, and offers an unprecedented level of customizability. Great customer service in terms of product replacement and sales.

GW worst: Rediculous prices. Mediocre rulesets that are functional and can be fun, but are far outclassed by other rulesets. Standardization of terrain and terrain bases. WD, a catalog with a few painting guides pretending to be a gaming magazine.

Kanluwen wrote:You missed the point I was making, but okay.

Privateer Press is just as much "company propaganda" as White Dwarf. They have their material tailored to fit the way their company is done.

I should also note that advancing the backstory is not necessarily a good thing.

I wanna throw in my hat for Wargames Illustrated. Actual product reviews from multiple manufacturers, real battle reports, historical guidelines, campaign guides etc. It really is far and above of WD. Cant speak for No Quarter, havent taken a look at it.

I don't really care that WD only covers GW stuff. I don't play the other games, and have zero interest in historical wargaming. Besides it has been decades since WD covered anything but GW stuff. I liked WD when I got it back in 2000. It was only $5 an issue, and if you subscribed, you got a little bonus too. There was lots of content as well.

The last issue of WD that I got, I finished in like 15 minutes. It is just terrible, and the price of $9 an issue is adding insult to injury.

its 11 dollars here :S

GW at its best. AOBR box set. The perfect customer friendly box. Complete Rules, dice, study thick plastic templates two factions (even if the models were somewhat simplified) and a great over all deal. Perfect.

GW at its worse - The pricing of everything but AOBR box set. I just do not see the value of what is in the box (no matter what it is) vs the price tag on the front.

Las wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:You missed the point I was making, but okay.

Privateer Press is just as much "company propaganda" as White Dwarf. They have their material tailored to fit the way their company is done.

I should also note that advancing the backstory is not necessarily a good thing.

I wanna throw in my hat for Wargames Illustrated. Actual product reviews from multiple manufacturers, real battle reports, historical guidelines, campaign guides etc. It really is far and above of WD. Cant speak for No Quarter, havent taken a look at it.

I'll toss my hat in for WGI as well. Then I'll go out, purchase several more hats, and throw them in for Battlegames and Wargames, Soldiers and Strategies.

Then I'll wear the last hat.

AustonT wrote:Entertainment fiction. As are all BL, you may apply them as canon at your own discretion. I do not. Here is a short list of reasons why:

Canon = canon whether you like it or not. That would be like me saying Loctus of Borg never really happened because I think the episode "Best of Both Worlds" was silly and denounce it from occuring. Yes that's Star Trek.
You do not simply get to choose what is and what is not canon.


The Guard win their wars on numbers, throw enough bodies at the enemy and it eventually stops. SO many regiments have been lost finding out this does not work well against Tyranids in fluff, and that Nid's are often best dealth with artillery, LOTS and LOTS of artillery; or orbital bombardment. Cain's novels actually represent a quite clearer picture than most into the 40k Universe and that's highly amusing. IE. fighting against the Orks on an iceworld that he discovers a Necron tomb on. F&^% the planet, F&^% the Orks, and get the hell off that rock; Nid's are unstoppable in the fluff. It is even illustrated that the Necrons waking to attack the Orks while the Guard retreats into orbit and marks the planet for the Navy to deal with. Would any of you say the Guard sided with Necrons there? No. But you change out Orks for Nids and Guard for Blood Angels and suddenly its like they're banging 8balls off hookers together like they were twin Charlie Sheens!


GW at best: The community it created

GW at worst: The community it created.


^ No joke, often you run into so many instances where it boils down to personal attacks because people disagree. Kan showed his opinion and people start trouncing him for it? In a thread that asks for opinions? The same goes the opposite way for Kan, people didn't like the book, sod em; you can't teach EVERYONE to read . The community can be SO often very volatile and for what? I remember quiting 40k because the local GW store said my army was illegal because I used non-GW paints. I still say Model Masters ((yes testors)) is better quality paint, for less cost than GW. The reality was I just wanted cheaper paint at the time, being much younger.


As for the SoB; they ARE greater individually over your "average" Guardsmen. Rules wise they compete evenly if not with an edge against Storm Troopers, no one here will say Guardsmen are better than Troopers. Also what's this nonsense of there being NO augmentation to humans? No, it is not as far as the Marines, but it is the seed of the Emperor that makes a Marine what a Marine is; not just a few pistons there, an injection of antimantium there.


And this noise that "Codex scribbles" don't count for anything? Codex fluff outweighs any other fluff, this is the scripture that explains EXACTLY what a unit in this Universe of Make-Believe is.

GW are producing some of the best minis in the world right now, at least in terms of comparably priced products..

GW at their worst for me is characterised by removing scratch built scenery and boards from the stores. Almost everything is now kit bashed from plastic products, even down to the plastic game boards & it means a whole generation of customers are missing out a part of the hobby many of us love doing. Don't get me wrong, the plastic scenery is fantastic but the stores used to showcase real creativity. If it's not made from GW kits it must be denied & I find that sad.