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If the battlesuit squad size becomes four, there won't be so much need to give special weapons to Fire Warriors.

nomotog wrote:

TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:They should include some of the forge world battle suits and hammerhead models. Tau should get another type of battle suit but it should still have the same functions as the XV8 except different armor type, maybe toughness 5??? Then give the hammerhead another weapon besides an Ion Cannon, or update the Ion Cannon with s 8 and I would be satistfied. Another alien race or two would be much appreciated as well. And the next codex must have a GOOD battle scene in it to read. The first codex had a great battle scene against the Imperium where they destroyed their tanks and made all the little guardsmen scatter and let the kroot mop up all the rest.

You know you can give hammerheads railguns right. str 10 ap 1

I actually am not to fond of the forge world suits. Dose that make me the minority here?

The look or the rules? Because I run XV9s and there is just so much they can do that XV8s can't.

Like termie popping with Fusion Cascades. 2D3 Melta per suit/turn? Yes please.

Or do you mean the commander XV8s?

Kilkrazy wrote:If the battlesuit squad size becomes four, there won't be so much need to give special weapons to Fire Warriors.

I don't think the entire codex should be hinged on one unit like that. I think we should have multiple sources of special weapons or every list will simply spam the hell out of Crisis suits.

TrollPie wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:If the battlesuit squad size becomes four, there won't be so much need to give special weapons to Fire Warriors.

I don't think the entire codex should be hinged on one unit like that. I think we should have multiple sources of special weapons or every list will simply spam the hell out of Crisis suits.

Well XV88s are already at least as good as crisis suits. So 2 things to spam

A lot of these modify the Tau things are based more on what players would like to see and less on what the Tau would actually do.

The Tau like everything to do one thing almost to the exclusion of all else. Kitting out the Firewarriors with a variety of weapons is directly counter to that.

I'm also still not keen on this evade-evade rule. The Tau solve problems through technology, not training (which is why they are BS 3 and WS 2).

So upgrade the photon grenades so they force the enemy to make a difficult terrain check as well as strip away the charge bonuses and give the Tau access to drones that carry fail-safe detonators.

This works out for the Tau because 1) the attackers might not reach the Tau lines 2) The attackers loose the benefit of the charge and drop to initiative 1 meaning they will kill less Tau and 3) Failsafe Drone allows the Tau to successfully break away without being swept.

and we stay with Firewarriors still following the fluff.

Now if we want weapon upgrades for the Firewarriors I suggest something that applies to the whole unit, like a special ammo that makes the Pulse weapons AP 3 or something like that.

Jefffar wrote:

I'm also still not keen on this evade-evade rule. The Tau solve problems through technology, not training (which is why they are BS 3 and WS 2).



Now if we want weapon upgrades for the Firewarriors I suggest something that applies to the whole unit, like a special ammo that makes the Pulse weapons AP 3 or something like that.

1. They are trained basically from birth. So...there's that.

2. That I can Agree with.

im2randomghgh wrote:

nomotog wrote:

TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:They should include some of the forge world battle suits and hammerhead models. Tau should get another type of battle suit but it should still have the same functions as the XV8 except different armor type, maybe toughness 5??? Then give the hammerhead another weapon besides an Ion Cannon, or update the Ion Cannon with s 8 and I would be satistfied. Another alien race or two would be much appreciated as well. And the next codex must have a GOOD battle scene in it to read. The first codex had a great battle scene against the Imperium where they destroyed their tanks and made all the little guardsmen scatter and let the kroot mop up all the rest.

You know you can give hammerheads railguns right. str 10 ap 1

I actually am not to fond of the forge world suits. Dose that make me the minority here?

The look or the rules? Because I run XV9s and there is just so much they can do that XV8s can't.

Like termie popping with Fusion Cascades. 2D3 Melta per suit/turn? Yes please.

Or do you mean the commander XV8s?

The look. I don't like how the models look. They just seem to match poorly.

im2randomghgh wrote:

1. They are trained basically from birth. So...there's that.

and can onl get to a BS of 3 and a WS of 2. Training does not seem to be the way they get things done.

Hi all. I'm a first time poster so please forgive any errors in my understanding of the rules.
I have always thought of the Tau as a highly mobile army that uses combined arms and high mobility to win. At present, however, the basic Fire Warrior is treated as a gunline troop as the risk of getting close to the opponent is too great to justify the benefit of rapid fire. I also agree with an earlier poster that their technology is their main way of overcoming their shortcomings and in the current codex this means the markerlight.

1. Give Fire Warriors a special rule that enables them to fire a rapid fire weapon at full range, even if they moved. This would probably also require Pulse Carbine to be made better to compensate for the Pulse rifle’s improvement. I would suggest ‘12” Range, Assault 2, Pinning’.
2. Make Markerlights Assault 1 and allow any squad, even the squad that fired to use the effects.
3. Simplify Markerlights to the following effects.
a. Allow the firing squad to re-roll misses
b. Force the target squad to re-roll cover saves
c. Force the target squad to re-roll pinning tests
d. Fire a seeker missile (as current)
4. Give Fire Warrior Shas'ui BS4, as they currently have an option for taking markerlights.
5. Give Pathfinders the choice of the existing Scout USR and the upgraded Devilfish or the Infiltrate USR without the transport.
6. Add a new variant of the Markerlight, let's call it the Blinderlight, that forces the enemy squad to treat all terrain as difficult terrain in their next movement phase.

1: I don't see happening, there'd be no reason to take carbines due to all the morale immune units, and it doesn't make much sense.
2: done
3: I like the current system. It works and IMO is slightly better than yours.
4: done
5: done
6: couldn't this be done through another weapon or missile? Also, don't most forces have visors/autosenses that can overcome that effect?

Jefffar wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

1. They are trained basically from birth. So...there's that.

and can onl get to a BS of 3 and a WS of 2. Training does not seem to be the way they get things done.

It's more of a game balance thing, I believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nomotog wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

nomotog wrote:

TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:They should include some of the forge world battle suits and hammerhead models. Tau should get another type of battle suit but it should still have the same functions as the XV8 except different armor type, maybe toughness 5??? Then give the hammerhead another weapon besides an Ion Cannon, or update the Ion Cannon with s 8 and I would be satistfied. Another alien race or two would be much appreciated as well. And the next codex must have a GOOD battle scene in it to read. The first codex had a great battle scene against the Imperium where they destroyed their tanks and made all the little guardsmen scatter and let the kroot mop up all the rest.

You know you can give hammerheads railguns right. str 10 ap 1

I actually am not to fond of the forge world suits. Dose that make me the minority here?

The look or the rules? Because I run XV9s and there is just so much they can do that XV8s can't.

Like termie popping with Fusion Cascades. 2D3 Melta per suit/turn? Yes please.

Or do you mean the commander XV8s?

The look. I don't like how the models look. They just seem to match poorly.

The XV9s don't match with crisis suits, but they actually match better with the gentle curves of their vehicles/Stealth suits/Drones.

IMO Crisis suits contrast greatly with the rest because of their hard, blocky lines.

Jefffar wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

1. They are trained basically from birth. So...there's that.

and can onl get to a BS of 3 and a WS of 2. Training does not seem to be the way they get things done.

Cadians are also BS3 and trained from birth to be nothing but warriors as well as being supposedly among the best guard regiments around. Its a little crowded having all of the armies basic troops vying between BS3 and BS4. Veteran squads are either the hard bitten survivors of countless wars that have left hundreds of their comrades dead, or really elite guard like Gaunts Ghosts. Fire warriors having BS3 is thus technically appropriate.

But, Tau are an enlightened race who don't believe in throwing lives away, or not making the best out of what they have. Also there've been a few descriptions of Tau training domes having left the Imperials in awe of the facilities available to even the basic soldiers; equal to full mock battles and the like. Thats a bit more than cleaning the rifle and putting a bayonet into a straw maniqin. So fluff wise they kind of do use training to get things done, they don't just hand out plasma weapons off a rack and let um figure it out for themselves.

im2randomghgh wrote:
The XV9s don't match with crisis suits, but they actually match better with the gentle curves of their vehicles/Stealth suits/Drones.

IMO Crisis suits contrast greatly with the rest because of their hard, blocky lines.

I just don't like them. The look too Japanese. (I can explain what I mean if you want.) I also like how I can use magnets in my crisis suits. I wouldn't be able to do that with the XV9.


I kind of expect to see an expansion to the marker light rules with different units being able to spend mark tokens to perform different powers. Like maybe an aun can call down a orbital strike by spending 4 marker tokens or a engineer being able to heal a cisssis suit by hitting it with a markerlight.

Sure they're BS3 and WS2 but so what? How do we know what their starting stats were? Humanity is a savage, war-like race, built for combat. The Tau, by contrast, may well be more inherantly civilised. They may not have the inherant willingness to kill another as humans do (BS) or instinctive killing behavior (WS).

It's all about external and internal balance. Internally, Firewarriors are the basic troop type of the Tau military. They're the infantry linesmen, they have BS3 because that represents them as grunts. Yes, you can go on about how they're trained from birth, which isn't necessarily true, but what then makes the Crisis suits different? It's them who should gain BS3, on account of their experience and rank. Externally, thay have to be balanced with the troop types of other armies. Space Marines are super-soldiers, they're leaps and bounds better than a Firewarrior, it's why they have BS4. All the other races that have BS4 have it for a reason, because they're better than a Tau.

Joey wrote:Sure they're BS3 and WS2 but so what? How do we know what their starting stats were? Humanity is a savage, war-like race, built for combat. The Tau, by contrast, may well be more inherantly civilised. They may not have the inherant willingness to kill another as humans do (BS) or instinctive killing behavior (WS).

Humans in 40k weren't (so far as iam aware) created for a prupose like Nids, or eldar, or orks, or necrons to fight they pretty much just evolved from primordial ouze.

A race that belives it has a manifest destiny to conquer the galaxy isn't aggressive? Also Tau are very aggressive, especially the Fire Caste, they were killing eachother quite well enough until the Ethereals showed up and in Courage and Honour one captured Fire Warrior has a nervous breakdown; becoming murderous and vicious. The fluff reason is they don't bother to train in CC at all since its beneath them and irrational, whilst low BS is apparently down to poor eyesight. Personally I think BS4 suits and even a veteran squad (already have honour guard) are perfectly justified since they are the Veterans of the Tau and using a one line throw-away piece of fluff to define the army is pretty silly; I could honestly see them retconning it. Theres nothing wrong with BS3 FW, its just price is a tad high and nobody takes hordes; and their special weapons support (Crisis suits) are horrendously expensive for such a fragile unit.

BTW since every recent codex has had at least one mega unit (Valkyrie, Trygon, DreadKnight etc) what do you think is most likely for Tau?

* Tau flier (Barracuda?)
*Transport aircraft (a mini orca?)
* Great Knarloc (a Vespid monstrous creature?)
*A big battlesuit (not XV-88)

Barracuda would be cool. They might need to change the armaments a little though. Right now it's a little like a hammer head taped to a sky ray.

Great knarloc would be cool too.

Joey wrote:Sure they're BS3 and WS2 but so what? How do we know what their starting stats were? Humanity is a savage, war-like race, built for combat. The Tau, by contrast, may well be more inherantly civilised. They may not have the inherant willingness to kill another as humans do (BS) or instinctive killing behavior (WS).

Although the Fire Caste is literally bred for war.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Joey wrote:Sure they're BS3 and WS2 but so what? How do we know what their starting stats were? Humanity is a savage, war-like race, built for combat. The Tau, by contrast, may well be more inherantly civilised. They may not have the inherant willingness to kill another as humans do (BS) or instinctive killing behavior (WS).

Humans in 40k weren't (so far as iam aware) created for a prupose like Nids, or eldar, or orks, or necrons to fight they pretty much just evolved from primordial ouze.

A race that belives it has a manifest destiny to conquer the galaxy isn't aggressive? Also Tau are very aggressive, especially the Fire Caste, they were killing eachother quite well enough until the Ethereals showed up and in Courage and Honour one captured Fire Warrior has a nervous breakdown; becoming murderous and vicious. The fluff reason is they don't bother to train in CC at all since its beneath them and irrational, whilst low BS is apparently down to poor eyesight. Personally I think BS4 suits and even a veteran squad (already have honour guard) are perfectly justified since they are the Veterans of the Tau and using a one line throw-away piece of fluff to define the army is pretty silly; I could honestly see them retconning it. Theres nothing wrong with BS3 FW, its just price is a tad high and nobody takes hordes; and their special weapons support (Crisis suits) are horrendously expensive for such a fragile unit.

BTW since every recent codex has had at least one mega unit (Valkyrie, Trygon, DreadKnight etc) what do you think is most likely for Tau?

* Tau flier (Barracuda?)
*Transport aircraft (a mini orca?)
* Great Knarloc (a Vespid monstrous creature?)
*A big battlesuit (not XV-88)

It'd say a pimped out battlesuit.

Actually, their eyesight is slower to adjust, but much better once it does. Like, MUCH better. They see further into both UV AND IR, Implying they are tetrachromatic, meaning they would see roughly 1000xtimes the colours and hues humans do, meaning they would see in much greater detail.

Tetrachromatic is a fun word.

Everybody gets something new and shiny.

Farsight Enclave CC Power Weapon for suits? Let all the little Gundam fans really go at it. Seems like a fun idea to me. Jet packing around, cutting people apart, being all angry cause the Etherals lied to us and it hurt our feelings. Haha.

Edit: I'm usually super anti CC for Tau, but this might be a fun idea.

It would build on the Farsight == Badaaaaaassss idea that is in the existing fluff.

The Farsight army has limitations on the other equipment it can take so should not become the default choice for Tau players because of being better at melee.

CpatTom wrote:Tetrachromatic is a fun word.

Everybody gets something new and shiny.

Farsight Enclave CC Power Weapon for suits? Let all the little Gundam fans really go at it. Seems like a fun idea to me. Jet packing around, cutting people apart, being all angry cause the Etherals lied to us and it hurt our feelings. Haha.

Edit: I'm usually super anti CC for Tau, but this might be a fun idea.

That would make sense, actually. As I recalled Farsight's warriors loved to get stuck in. Plus, this could help limit their expednditure of ammunition, 1 CC weapon and one gun means less bullets need be forged.

and to make it interesting, make them able to charge then boost out off CC, so basically just hit and run, but 3d6+3, and counter attack incase they boost only six inches. This gives you the ability to make CC kills with them and their power weapons (reverse-engineered Dawn Blade?) without giving them such a huge WS boost that they could take on termies.

Too good?

I think a power weapon would be a bit too powerful, even in the hands of a Tau. Since basic suits get 2 attacks, I think a vibro/mono-molecular type weapon that conferred rending to cc attacks at the expense of a weapon slot would be more balanced.

acekevin8412 wrote:I think a power weapon would be a bit too powerful, even in the hands of a Tau. Since basic suits get 2 attacks, I think a vibro/mono-molecular type weapon that conferred rending to cc attacks at the expense of a weapon slot would be more balanced.

Or how about a saw hand thing that is +1str, rending and +1 attack in cc would be better, a good large points cost.

Is that even necessary? S5 A2 rending x 3 battlesuits is pretty powerful in my opinion.

S6 A3 rending x 3 would be a little abusive. How many points are you talking about? If it's going to be a battlesuit weapon, it should cost as much as the others.

acekevin8412 wrote:Is that even necessary? S5 A2 rending x 3 battlesuits is pretty powerful in my opinion.

S6 A3 rending x 3 would be a little abusive. How many points are you talking about? If it's going to be a battlesuit weapon, it should cost as much as the others.

25? a bit more/less? Because blasting away with plasma rifles than closing is appealing, and it wouldn't be so over powered because you'd be hitting most thing on like, what, 5+? that's 1 hit per suit, three hits in total for the whole unit. They'd hardly be a CC unit, but they'd be able to at least inflict SOME damage on meqs/teqs

Sorry if this has already been discussed but i always thought the idea of tau having a dual armour save 3+ vs shooting and 6+ in combat as it would fit their theme almost like refractive armour another idea i thought would be tracer rounds for against night vision and built in markerlights but at the cost of +1ap or -1 strength

im2randomghgh wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:Is that even necessary? S5 A2 rending x 3 battlesuits is pretty powerful in my opinion.

S6 A3 rending x 3 would be a little abusive. How many points are you talking about? If it's going to be a battlesuit weapon, it should cost as much as the others.

25? a bit more/less? Because blasting away with plasma rifles than closing is appealing, and it wouldn't be so over powered because you'd be hitting most thing on like, what, 5+? that's 1 hit per suit, three hits in total for the whole unit. They'd hardly be a CC unit, but they'd be able to at least inflict SOME damage on meqs/teqs

Well, If were to make a rule for Farsight, I'd add something like this.
Hardened Warriors: Every Tau unit, not auxiliaries, receive +1WS (maybe +1I?)
Now at WS3(I3), they'll be hitting on 4+ until WS7.
and then,
Close-Combat Aptitude: Shas'Ui Team Leaders and battlesuits may take a rending close combat for xpts. This weapon uses a system slot on battlesuits.

This strengthens Farsight FWs enough so that they can now fight toe-to-toe with guardsmen, which is what I think Farsight FW should be able to do.

Also, Farsight Enclaves should probably have access to Kroot. In the fluff, the Kroot are depicted as working as mercenaries behind the Tau's back, so why not help the Enclaves? This will keep them with access to Tau weapons and they could probably teach a thing or two to Farsights troops about cc.

acekevin8412 wrote:Is that even necessary? S5 A2 rending x 3 battlesuits is pretty powerful in my opinion.

S6 A3 rending x 3 would be a little abusive. How many points are you talking about? If it's going to be a battlesuit weapon, it should cost as much as the others.

technically under 12'', 3 suits can fire 6 str6 ap2 shots and 3 str8 ap1 as bs4. Its just that then your average suit costs near a 100pts, is easy to knock out with shooting and shooting that close is last resort.

acekevin8412 wrote:Well, If were to make a rule for Farsight, I'd add something like this.
Hardened Warriors: Every Tau unit, not auxiliaries, receive +1WS (maybe +1I?)
Now at WS3(I3), they'll be hitting on 4+ until WS7.
and then,
Close-Combat Aptitude: Shas'Ui Team Leaders and battlesuits may take a rending close combat for xpts. This weapon uses a system slot on battlesuits.

This strengthens Farsight FWs enough so that they can now fight toe-to-toe with guardsmen, which is what I think Farsight FW should be able to do.

Also, Farsight Enclaves should probably have access to Kroot. In the fluff, the Kroot are depicted as working as mercenaries behind the Tau's back, so why not help the Enclaves? This will keep them with access to Tau weapons and they could probably teach a thing or two to Farsights troops about cc.

I'd say Farsight's Tau might get a WS and/or Initiative Boost but rending weapons don't work for me for fluff reasons. Though I do consider that a battlesuit's strength bonus means that each of it's fists should count as a close combat weapon, thus giving them a bonus attack. I also think that Shas'ui and up - who are supposed to be veterans of combat and or survivors of a Trial by Fire, should have WS +1 in general.

As for Farsight and the Kroot, from Farsight's commentary in the codex it is apparent that he is a racial supremacist on a campaign of conquest and genocide. So the Kroot in his forces would have been among his first victims and Kroot Mercenaries he encounters he would attack.

Jayden63 wrote:Minuses you say? Give a bonus, but add a penalty you say? All in the name of balance.

What sort of crap is that?

Seriously. Don't any of you remember the total ass whooping that was Fear the Darkness. Doesn't anyone realize the damage free heavy bolters do to our guys. Where is the balance now? Screw that, make Firewarriors hit stupidly hard. Give us a HTH threat that will make an assault termi wet his pants and think twice about advancing into our lines.

Balance comes from point costs, not book work, not on random dice rolls. Why do the Tau have to be the play nice guys. You all do realize the massive amount of built in advantages many of the other races enjoy over the tau don't you? Lets let all of them be feared for a change instead of the universes whipping boy.

The Tau have one phase per game turn in which to win the game. Everyone else has three (their shooting, their assault, opponent assault). Tau need to inflict heavy damage in their shooting phase or its game over. Tau already are at a disadvantage, why built in more to their own dex.

Yeah, because Tau were so bad during 4th, which the current dex is written for...