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acekevin8412 wrote:I think a power weapon would be a bit too powerful, even in the hands of a Tau. Since basic suits get 2 attacks, I think a vibro/mono-molecular type weapon that conferred rending to cc attacks at the expense of a weapon slot would be more balanced.

Yeah and GK Paladins are so much more balanced with their WS4, BS4, I4, 2 attacks, 2 wounds 2+ save, access to FnP, psychic powers, shunting and force weapons. I'd pay 55pts for a crisis suit that does all of that because they already cost that much or more when they're kitted out anyway.

Nope, I'm not full of angst at all.

im2randomghgh wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:Is that even necessary? S5 A2 rending x 3 battlesuits is pretty powerful in my opinion.

S6 A3 rending x 3 would be a little abusive. How many points are you talking about? If it's going to be a battlesuit weapon, it should cost as much as the others.

25? a bit more/less? Because blasting away with plasma rifles than closing is appealing, and it wouldn't be so over powered because you'd be hitting most thing on like, what, 5+? that's 1 hit per suit, three hits in total for the whole unit. They'd hardly be a CC unit, but they'd be able to at least inflict SOME damage on meqs/teqs

25 points?! Thats how much you pay for a power fist. Which is x2 strength, AND its an actual power weapon (not rending). What if we pulled a relic blade, so +2 str power weapon for 15 points. That way they are only str7, so they aren't IDing MEQ. Just a thought, that seems balanced to me.

agnosto wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:I think a power weapon would be a bit too powerful, even in the hands of a Tau. Since basic suits get 2 attacks, I think a vibro/mono-molecular type weapon that conferred rending to cc attacks at the expense of a weapon slot would be more balanced.

Yeah and GK Paladins are so much more balanced with their WS4, BS4, I4, 2 attacks, 2 wounds 2+ save, access to FnP, psychic powers, shunting and force weapons. I'd pay 55pts for a crisis suit that does all of that because they already cost that much or more when they're kitted out anyway.

Nope, I'm not full of angst at all.

Paladins are WS5 but can absolutely not shunt.

What's up with people complaining about GK not getting stuff right?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

agnosto wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:I think a power weapon would be a bit too powerful, even in the hands of a Tau. Since basic suits get 2 attacks, I think a vibro/mono-molecular type weapon that conferred rending to cc attacks at the expense of a weapon slot would be more balanced.

Yeah and GK Paladins are so much more balanced with their WS4, BS4, I4, 2 attacks, 2 wounds 2+ save, access to FnP, psychic powers, shunting and force weapons. I'd pay 55pts for a crisis suit that does all of that because they already cost that much or more when they're kitted out anyway.

Nope, I'm not full of angst at all.

Paladins are WS5 but can absolutely not shunt.

What's up with people complaining about GK not getting stuff right?

You mean there's one thing they can't do? wow!

About getting things wrong, I figured I'd just list everything in the book and I'd be mostly right....and I was. Are they 55pts though? And way to nitpick without adressing the issue that for less points you get a unit that's twice as good as a crisis suit.

Jefffar wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:Well, If were to make a rule for Farsight, I'd add something like this.
Hardened Warriors: Every Tau unit, not auxiliaries, receive +1WS (maybe +1I?)
Now at WS3(I3), they'll be hitting on 4+ until WS7.
and then,
Close-Combat Aptitude: Shas'Ui Team Leaders and battlesuits may take a rending close combat for xpts. This weapon uses a system slot on battlesuits.

This strengthens Farsight FWs enough so that they can now fight toe-to-toe with guardsmen, which is what I think Farsight FW should be able to do.

Also, Farsight Enclaves should probably have access to Kroot. In the fluff, the Kroot are depicted as working as mercenaries behind the Tau's back, so why not help the Enclaves? This will keep them with access to Tau weapons and they could probably teach a thing or two to Farsights troops about cc.

Any quotes in particular? I looked through the Tau codex again as well as the Lexicanum, and I still can't find anything

I'd say Farsight's Tau might get a WS and/or Initiative Boost but rending weapons don't work for me for fluff reasons. Though I do consider that a battlesuit's strength bonus means that each of it's fists should count as a close combat weapon, thus giving them a bonus attack. I also think that Shas'ui and up - who are supposed to be veterans of combat and or survivors of a Trial by Fire, should have WS +1 in general.

As for Farsight and the Kroot, from Farsight's commentary in the codex it is apparent that he is a racial supremacist on a campaign of conquest and genocide. So the Kroot in his forces would have been among his first victims and Kroot Mercenaries he encounters he would attack.

Fluff reasons? can you elaborate on that? You are also right about the +1A and +1WS.

Also, are there any particular quotes that implies that Farsight is a racial supremacist? I looked through the codex again, as well as the lexicanum, and I can't find anything that says that. I thought he just hated the "normal" Tau and left to fend for himself.

I'vve packed my boxes for a move, but in his commentary about how the other great starfairers being unwilling to ally with other races leads into statements that the Tau should also not ally with other races (ie Vespid and Kroot).

Speculation is all on the Farsight front. Nothing of substance as to why he does not use Kroot. (although with the lack of etheral guidance the Tau were pretty racist/xenophobic/ going to kill each other, so there might be something to that).

PraetorDave wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:Is that even necessary? S5 A2 rending x 3 battlesuits is pretty powerful in my opinion.

S6 A3 rending x 3 would be a little abusive. How many points are you talking about? If it's going to be a battlesuit weapon, it should cost as much as the others.

25? a bit more/less? Because blasting away with plasma rifles than closing is appealing, and it wouldn't be so over powered because you'd be hitting most thing on like, what, 5+? that's 1 hit per suit, three hits in total for the whole unit. They'd hardly be a CC unit, but they'd be able to at least inflict SOME damage on meqs/teqs

25 points?! Thats how much you pay for a power fist. Which is x2 strength, AND its an actual power weapon (not rending). What if we pulled a relic blade, so +2 str power weapon for 15 points. That way they are only str7, so they aren't IDing MEQ. Just a thought, that seems balanced to me.

I hadn't thought about it that way.
That actually makes perfect sense.

For an Empire small enough that it can afford to equip all it's warriors with the best possible equipment, that sounds reasonable enough that I'm actually pissed it isn't ours already

im2randomghgh wrote:I hadn't thought about it that way.
That actually makes perfect sense.

For an Empire small enough that it can afford to equip all it's warriors with the best possible equipment, that sounds reasonable enough that I'm actually pissed it isn't ours already

Well maybe thinking close combat is abhorrent and barbaric and not a proper way to wage warfare and therefore not worth the investment has something to do with that.


In short, it, like all other close combat weapon ideas for the Tau, just doesn't fit the Tau character.

If you want a real Tau Close Combat unit give it the ability to avoid being charged and break contact if it does get charged. That's what the Tau want to do in close combat.

The Hazard Suits are as close combat as the Tau should get.

@Jefffar

You mean this quote?
"...The hand of each of the starfarers is turned against the other; none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper. Neither should we."

I understand most of it, except for one line, "none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper." Particularly the "just to see their enemies prosper part." Wouldn't two races working together make it harder for the enemy to prosper?

acekevin8412 wrote:@Jefffar

You mean this quote?
"...The hand of each of the starfarers is turned against the other; none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper. Neither should we."

I understand most of it, except for one line, "none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper." Particularly the "just to see their enemies prosper part." Wouldn't two races working together make it harder for the enemy to prosper?

I think it is adhering to more archaic grammar rules, and that the meaning is "They try to standalone and not have allies, which only strengthens their foes"

But isn't that an argument against isolation? If standing alone, makes your enemies stronger, doesn't that mean they should band together?

Sorry to OP if this is jacking the discussion from your thread.

agnosto wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

agnosto wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:I think a power weapon would be a bit too powerful, even in the hands of a Tau. Since basic suits get 2 attacks, I think a vibro/mono-molecular type weapon that conferred rending to cc attacks at the expense of a weapon slot would be more balanced.

Yeah and GK Paladins are so much more balanced with their WS4, BS4, I4, 2 attacks, 2 wounds 2+ save, access to FnP, psychic powers, shunting and force weapons. I'd pay 55pts for a crisis suit that does all of that because they already cost that much or more when they're kitted out anyway.

Nope, I'm not full of angst at all.

Paladins are WS5 but can absolutely not shunt.

What's up with people complaining about GK not getting stuff right?

You mean there's one thing they can't do? wow!

About getting things wrong, I figured I'd just list everything in the book and I'd be mostly right....and I was. Are they 55pts though? And way to nitpick without adressing the issue that for less points you get a unit that's twice as good as a crisis suit.

Yes, they're 55 points actually.

acekevin8412 wrote:@Jefffar

You mean this quote?
"...The hand of each of the starfarers is turned against the other; none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper. Neither should we."

I understand most of it, except for one line, "none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper." Particularly the "just to see their enemies prosper part." Wouldn't two races working together make it harder for the enemy to prosper?

Actually, the intention of Farsight's statement is that two powers will not work together against a common foe because it may benefit the other power who, in the past has been their enemy.

Or perhaps to make it a little more sensible . . .


The Imperium and the Eldar have a very similar enemies list - orks, necrons, chaos, dark eldar . . . yet the Imperium and the Eldar have yet to form a lasting alliance with each other and are actually more likely to fight each other than help each other. Why? Because, for all the common goals the two share, at the end of the day they are competitors and enemies. So the Eldar doesn't want the humans to prosper and the humans don't want the Eldar to prosper.

Or to paraphrase Farsight "No-one out here works together because everybody has wronged everybody else in the past. So it is pointless for us to be any different. Instead of trying to convert people to our way, we should treat everyone as our enemy and destroy them."

Ahhhh, Thanks it all makes sense now.

Well, back on topic, I heard over on BoLS, that in the new IAA 2nd Edition, the barracuda entry is missing. Supposedely, this implies that GW has taken over its use and it'll be in the next Tau codex.

acekevin8412 wrote:Ahhhh, Thanks it all makes sense now.

Well, back on topic, I heard over on BoLS, that in the new IAA 2nd Edition, the barracuda entry is missing. Supposedely, this implies that GW has taken over its use and it'll be in the next Tau codex.

Seems like it would imply that it has been cut?

According to BoLS, when GW acquires a FW unit, like the Valkyrie, FW aren't supposed to have it in their future books.
And because the barracuda is missing, and that 6th edition supposed to integrate flyers, he think that it's going to be in the next codex.

I am in agreement with a few of the posters here when they say the Tau need to have at least one capable CC unit. With the codex shifts occuring in all 5th ed. books there would be little trouble explaining why the Tau have started looking at the problems associated with fighting only at range. The Tau are a scientific and technical society which would realize their vulnerability in Close Combat.
This does not mean they have to wield power swords or powerfists but they would find ways to fight in the CC phase of the game.

Here are a few ideas:
Flechette Drones...used to repel assaults. Just like Vehicle flechette rules
Power Fields on vehicles and suits...everytime a hit is scored in CC the attacking force also takes a lower st hit.
Assault Drones....flying Buzzsaws....high Initiative and Rending....

They don't need a CC unit, They just need the ability to make a move backwards in the assault phase equal to their initiative, or something. Or rapid fire at 15 inches.

Every Army in the game has multiple Long range and CC based units....except the Tau...they get Kroot, that is their only CC option, and it pales in comparison to almost all others.

Drones really seem to be where you would fit this type of unit in...like my previous post...Flechette and Assault drones, either attached to FW squads/Suits or set up in their own units like Gun Drones are in the current Dex.
Maybe give the new CMD units some form of weapon....powersword/mace/whip...Suits with a weapon do look cool and a CMDR would have enough experience to justify using it.

After purchasing several XV-9 suits and playing them multiple times, I have found them very useful for the role of CC fire brigade, alot of close range firepower and the hit and run with JSJ makes these guys work well to react to enemy CC incursions.

Granted its not a CC unit per-say but it does CC the way I have always envisaged the Tau would " the best way to win in CC is not to engage in CC "

So hopefully with the eventual release of a future codex the XV-9 will be standardized and more units like them maybe implemented, I personally dont want a Tau CC unit, Aux are fine but lets keep the Tau on a higher path, besides there are plenty of CC armies out there already, viva la differance!

juraigamer wrote:They don't need a CC unit, They just need the ability to make a move backwards in the assault phase equal to their initiative, or something. Or rapid fire at 15 inches.

or kroot with a 5+ and no points increase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:After purchasing several XV-9 suits and playing them multiple times, I have found them very useful for the role of CC fire brigade, alot of close range firepower and the hit and run with JSJ makes these guys work well to react to enemy CC incursions.

Granted its not a CC unit per-say but it does CC the way I have always envisaged the Tau would " the best way to win in CC is not to engage in CC "

So hopefully with the eventual release of a future codex the XV-9 will be standardized and more units like them maybe implemented, I personally dont want a Tau CC unit, Aux are fine but lets keep the Tau on a higher path, besides there are plenty of CC armies out there already, vive la différence!

I love my XV9s. My apoc games are almost exclusively XV88, XV9 and mantas.

And the best way to describe the XV9s isn't Close Combat, it would be Close Quarters, as in shooting from the end of a hallway rather than from across enormous plains miles away.

P.S. corrected your french.

One thing I have seen occur on this thread quite a bit which I would like to point out:

A number of individuals point to other Armies (codices?) and say, they can do this and that, so why cant the Tau?

My Response is this: 40k is not chess. If all the Armies can do exactly the same thing, that is in essence what you have made the game.

If you want your army to do all of the things the opponents army can do, and you still want to play 40k, play that army.

If you like the Tau's aesthetic, but some other armies rules, convert and backstory it up. 40k is the perfect place for that.

Mostly, please, dont ask for the Tau to be like everybody else. I like my special little blue hoofed snowflake.

CpatTom wrote:One thing I have seen occur on this thread quite a bit which I would like to point out:

A number of individuals point to other Armies (codices?) and say, they can do this and that, so why cant the Tau?

My Response is this: 40k is not chess. If all the Armies can do exactly the same thing, that is in essence what you have made the game.

If you want your army to do all of the things the opponents army can do, and you still want to play 40k, play that army.

If you like the Tau's aesthetic, but some other armies rules, convert and backstory it up. 40k is the perfect place for that.

Mostly, please, dont ask for the Tau to be like everybody else. I like my special little blue hoofed snowflake.

I agree with that completely, actually.

Anyways though, the XV9 is actually really good when working in conjunction with XV8, because the XV8 and XV88. The XV88 excels at great ranges, the XV8 at middle ranges, and the XV9 at fairly short ranges.

I have always thought it was very Tau-y, having everyone play their own part.

if they want some balance for Tau in regard to all the speedy CC in the game now they can do some easy tweaks for all the DS armies oh the Tau have a scrambler field now you scatter more (F you BA and drop pods) for trying to drop within 18 in (basicly reducing their droping to infultraiting distances) or just give the Tau a shooting round against it. Tau fluffwise are all about tech so let us take tech up grades to screw up our enemies.

Id love to see marklights on all vehicles they can be out defensive weapons 4-6 on a hammerhead/skyray, 2 on a piranha 3-4 on a devilfish. troop battle suit squads - limited builds and upgrades HQs that dont blow. more from our guns BC 4-6 shots plasma assault 2 or 3, MP assualt 3 or see our suit squad number increase along with out LD values. troops that get grenades FREE, stealth drones and suits that acually get a stealth bonus not just a mobile cover save, kroot with more ini and a dodge save (maybe even a kroot psyker :read savage scars they exist!) Im hoping for some special rulles some small buffing and point cost reductions the new tank would be cool but I dont want to have to get 3 to be competitive I want to see the army get some balancing out against all these ridiculous CC armies, its a damn sci-fi game if i wanted melee focus id play fantasy

atlas_garon wrote:if they want some balance for Tau in regard to all the speedy CC in the game now they can do some easy tweaks for all the DS armies oh the Tau have a scrambler field now you scatter more (F you BA and drop pods) for trying to drop within 18 in (basicly reducing their droping to infultraiting distances) or just give the Tau a shooting round against it. Tau fluffwise are all about tech so let us take tech up grades to screw up our enemies.

Id love to see marklights on all vehicles they can be out defensive weapons 4-6 on a hammerhead/skyray, 2 on a piranha 3-4 on a devilfish. troop battle suit squads - limited builds and upgrades HQs that dont blow. more from our guns BC 4-6 shots plasma assault 2 or 3, MP assualt 3 or see our suit squad number increase along with out LD values. troops that get grenades FREE, stealth drones and suits that acually get a stealth bonus not just a mobile cover save, kroot with more ini and a dodge save (maybe even a kroot psyker :read savage scars they exist!) Im hoping for some special rulles some small buffing and point cost reductions the new tank would be cool but I dont want to have to get 3 to be competitive I want to see the army get some balancing out against all these ridiculous CC armies, its a damn sci-fi game if i wanted melee focus id play fantasy

If we added all that, tau would never lose, ever.

It's that simple.

CpatTom wrote:One thing I have seen occur on this thread quite a bit which I would like to point out:

A number of individuals point to other Armies (codices?) and say, they can do this and that, so why cant the Tau?

My Response is this: 40k is not chess. If all the Armies can do exactly the same thing, that is in essence what you have made the game.

If you want your army to do all of the things the opponents army can do, and you still want to play 40k, play that army.

If you like the Tau's aesthetic, but some other armies rules, convert and backstory it up. 40k is the perfect place for that.

Mostly, please, dont ask for the Tau to be like everybody else. I like my special little blue hoofed snowflake.

Well said!

The game needs a variety of army styles to be interesting.

Kilkrazy wrote:

CpatTom wrote:One thing I have seen occur on this thread quite a bit which I would like to point out:

A number of individuals point to other Armies (codices?) and say, they can do this and that, so why cant the Tau?

My Response is this: 40k is not chess. If all the Armies can do exactly the same thing, that is in essence what you have made the game.

If you want your army to do all of the things the opponents army can do, and you still want to play 40k, play that army.

If you like the Tau's aesthetic, but some other armies rules, convert and backstory it up. 40k is the perfect place for that.

Mostly, please, dont ask for the Tau to be like everybody else. I like my special little blue hoofed snowflake.

Well said!

The game needs a variety of army styles to be interesting.

Thank you, kindly.