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tetrisphreak wrote:Well how about giving them a 'flee' reaction as well? Fits the fluff, run in the face of danger only to regroup and rapid fire again....

That is what my proposed Evade! Evade! rule does.

New USR; Evade! Evade!

Knowing their weakness and distaste for melee combat, the Tau have developed tactical doctrine and equipment that allows their infantry to more easily avoid getting caught in this primitive activity.

Tau infantry units equipped with Photon Grenades are granted the new Universal Special Rule “Evade! Evade!”

1. When charged by an enemy unit, the leader may give the command, “Evade! Evade!” The soldiers then deploy Photon Grenades and make a fall back move (2D6, or 3D6 for jetpack equipped units) directly away from the direction of the charge, in order not to get caught. If this move carries the unit off the edge of the table, it is removed from the game.

2. Models which are contacted by the enemy fight at initiative 1.

3. Models not contacted by the enemy are not subject to the rule Defenders React (p.34 of the small rulebook). They do not have to move up to six inches to contact enemy models in order to fight.

Fixing Tau:
-Pulse Rifles - become assault 2
-Pulse Carbines - get blast - range 12"
-Kroot - 5pts
-Devilfish - 30pts off
-Hammerheads - 15pts off the railrifle
-Pathfinders - option of buying a stealth drone (gives them the ability of the stealthsuits) - if they do so then they don't have to buy a transport - or just give them infiltrate/outflank and not have a transport requirement - make the minimum unit size 5
-Markerlights - become assault 1
-Crisis/Broadside suits - streamlined options, a little cheaper
-Commander - option to take a stealth suit
-Stealth suits - weapon options other than burst cannon/fusion blaster
-Special character that allows suits to be taken in other force org slots (say elite and fast attack)

Tau don't need anything in h2h for their fire warriors. Armies "should" have a weakness, catching Tau troops (not their allies) in h2h should be their weakness. It's tau, play better and your troops won't see h2h.

Kilkrazy.

I like your idea and applaud the orignality; however, I like the simplicity that borrowing charge reactions from fantasy would bring to the table (no pun intended).

The choice to stand and shoot vs. horde/high save units or if you think you can get out of assault range, choose the flee reaction. The downside to Flee! would be a leadership check to rally on your following turn. The downside to stand and shoot would be well, you're Tau and at least one marine is going to make it to you....having the ability to make wiping your unit a pyrrhic victory for your opponent is attractive IMO.

I'm going to talk to my friend that I usually play against and see if he wouldn't mind me experimenting with it a bit (no playing around with point costs).

A "flee" or "evade" type mechanic is already int he Tau codex.

Just throw a fail-safe detonator into a drone and make it available for general issue.

elrodogg wrote: Tau don't need anything in h2h for their fire warriors. Armies "should" have a weakness, catching Tau troops (not their allies) in h2h should be their weakness. It's tau, play better and your troops won't see h2h.

See Im kind of with this which is why im a bit against the whole stand and shoot thing. If you think FW are bad in H2H why should you give them H2H? Just make sure your troops dont get into that position in the first place. If you think they are bad by other troops standards, shave a few points off them.

Is it because you feel that the strength and accuracy of firewarriors does not make up for their lack of H2H ability? In that case you could increase the strength of the gun and/or accuracy as stated with various options (A2 weapons, different weapon profiles, increasing str, increasing bs or whatever). Im rather against increasing BS as I think markerlights do that effectively already, maybe networked would be nice but you catch my drift. And Str 6 standard weapons is stupid.


If they still need some type of defence after you've done all that for whatever reason, as said before I'm game for the evade option if an option must be chosen, but really I think unit synergy should be the way to go rather than making our baseline troops able to hand everything. If the evade option is unlocked by say an ethereal being on the board, then ok thats better.

Give Firewarriors Rail Rifles.

Boom. Headshot.

CpatTom wrote:Give Firewarriors Rail Rifles.

Boom. Headshot.

Why should firewarriors be the only troop choice in the game with zero options? I could see a unit of 12 having 2 railrifles.

You know we are really jumping through all kinds of hoops to make FW better. Isn't there an easier way to do it. One that doesn't require complex rules.

You want an awesome firewarrior? Same points cost, BS4 base with charge reactions....maybe, maybe special weapons in the squad (ie railrifle). Done.

Bump the points cost. Just let them upgrade to Rail Rifles and give them some sort of Squad Targeting Array. Makes them better than Sniper Scouts, and Meq's will have to ponder real hard whether they want to eat those S6 Ap3 shots.

This gives them an offensive capability. Firewarriors with the ability to cause damage, at range. Haha.

You mean a shooting-centric army that can actually produce quality shooting? Now that's crazy talk!

I've fallen prey to the madness of reason.

My suggestion Keep 10 points. BS 4, WS 1, and let them move after shooting. (I forget what ability dose that.) Move points up and down for balance.

I think based on everything I have seen, I can piece together an imagine of how firewarriors should be.

10 points
BS4 WS1 other stats the same.
For +5 points unit gets railrifle.
Option to take a Devilfish at 50pts.
Pulse Rifles can double tap at 15"

Pathfinder:
12 points.
BS4 other stats the same
Can pay bonus 2(?)pts per model for stealth field generator
Can infiltrate/outflank.

Fixed?

im2randomghgh wrote:I think based on everything I have seen, I can piece together an imagine of how firewarriors should be.

10 points
BS4 WS1 other stats the same.
For +5 points unit gets railrifle.
Option to take a Devilfish at 50pts.
Pulse Rifles can double tap at 15"

Pathfinder:
12 points.
BS4 other stats the same
Can pay bonus 2(?)pts per model for stealth field generator
Can infiltrate/outflank.

Fixed?

Looks good to me. what does a Stealth field do though? Isn't that what Stealth Suits have?

Yeah. Shooting at them is the same as night-fighting. I think they should simplify the stealthfield to just give a 4+ or 5+ cover save.

agnosto wrote:Yeah. Shooting at them is the same as night-fighting. I think they should simplify the stealthfield to just give a 4+ or 5+ cover save.

Nah, I like it this way. Especially when they're far, you get a good chance of taking NO saves.

I would be happy if losing drones didn't force a leadership check on Firewarriors.

I would be estatic if losing drones didn't force a leadership check on other drones.

They're friggin' drones. Let 'em be cheap, expendable items. They shouldn't be able to take objectives, only incoming fire.

Other than that, stay fluffy. Low H2H, shooty, with many allied races. I wept a little every time DE got another non-Eldar aux - the Sslyth would've been a dandy addition to The Greater Good.

Yeah, Ld test cause my shield drones blew up? I mean, maybe if these lil guys had personalities. If R2 and C-3PO are going up in smoke, yeah, maybe a feel a lil emotion then. If I'm taking fire, and my shot blocking frisbees go up in lil bits of plastic, thats what they were there for.

What would you guys hope for where models are concerned?

I'm hoping for a suit in the same weight class as the XV15-XV25 suit series that is like smaller xv8.

im2randomghgh wrote:I think based on everything I have seen, I can piece together an imagine of how firewarriors should be.

10 points
BS4 WS1 other stats the same.
For +5 points unit gets railrifle.
Option to take a Devilfish at 50pts.
Pulse Rifles can double tap at 15"

Fixed?

Fixed.

However, I would take the option for give the WHOLE squad rail rifles, rather than sprinkling them in.

One of the larger issues is the FW team size. In such small squads, unless the markerlight system changes, it's hard to get a good bonus going for anything but one unit. Changing the rapid fire range however fixes the issue with getting one round of rapid in and then just dying next turn to what survives.

As for models, I am hoping for some of the forgeworld stuff, and "maybe" a flyer, since it's the tau's thing. However, a flying transport, I forget what it's actually called, would be incredible, and forge world has one.

I would like the Tetra model, but the rules need to be upgraded if it is to be at all useful.

An Orca gunship/transport model would be awesome. I think it's over 12 inches long so it may not be do-able as a model on table.

They should include some of the forge world battle suits and hammerhead models. Tau should get another type of battle suit but it should still have the same functions as the XV8 except different armor type, maybe toughness 5??? Then give the hammerhead another weapon besides an Ion Cannon, or update the Ion Cannon with s 8 and I would be satistfied. Another alien race or two would be much appreciated as well. And the next codex must have a GOOD battle scene in it to read. The first codex had a great battle scene against the Imperium where they destroyed their tanks and made all the little guardsmen scatter and let the kroot mop up all the rest.

Some larger transport flyer might be cool, but nothing orca sized, as that is truly enormous.

TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:They should include some of the forge world battle suits and hammerhead models. Tau should get another type of battle suit but it should still have the same functions as the XV8 except different armor type, maybe toughness 5??? Then give the hammerhead another weapon besides an Ion Cannon, or update the Ion Cannon with s 8 and I would be satistfied. Another alien race or two would be much appreciated as well. And the next codex must have a GOOD battle scene in it to read. The first codex had a great battle scene against the Imperium where they destroyed their tanks and made all the little guardsmen scatter and let the kroot mop up all the rest.

You know you can give hammerheads railguns right. str 10 ap 1

I actually am not to fond of the forge world suits. Dose that make me the minority here?

He's probably talking about the forge world variant turrets for the hammerheads though they suck IMHO.

im2randomghgh wrote:I think based on everything I have seen, I can piece together an imagine of how firewarriors should be.

10 points
BS4 WS1 other stats the same.
For +5 points unit gets railrifle.
Option to take a Devilfish at 50pts.
Pulse Rifles can double tap at 15"

Pathfinder:
12 points.
BS4 other stats the same
Can pay bonus 2(?)pts per model for stealth field generator
Can infiltrate/outflank.

Fixed?

I would prefer something like this:

Fire Warriors

9 points each.
BS3 WS2 Re-roll 1s to hit at range
Evade! Evade! rule
Can purchase 1 SW per 6 FWs. Options are: Plasma Rifle, Rail Rifle, Burst Cannon (which I think should be Assault 4 and R24"), Fusion Blaster, Flamer (possible with the special Hellhound firing rules), Rail Rifle and Ion Blaster with appropriate costs.
New weapon: Ion Blaster, S4 AP3 Assault 3 18".
Pulse Carbines Assault 2
Pulse Rifles 15" double tap.

Pathfinders

12 points each
BS3 WS2 Re-roll 1s to hit at range
Evade! Evade! rule
May take as many Rail Rifles as they want at +3 points each
May fire Carbines in addition to their MLs, and when doing so they may use one of the bonuses.
ML tokens removed; all units firing at a ML'd unit may take 1 bonus
Can infiltrate

What if we let SL take battlesuits?

TrollPie wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I think based on everything I have seen, I can piece together an imagine of how firewarriors should be.

10 points
BS4 WS1 other stats the same.
For +5 points unit gets railrifle.
Option to take a Devilfish at 50pts.
Pulse Rifles can double tap at 15"

Pathfinder:
12 points.
BS4 other stats the same
Can pay bonus 2(?)pts per model for stealth field generator
Can infiltrate/outflank.

Fixed?

I would prefer something like this:

Fire Warriors

9 points each.
BS3 WS2 Re-roll 1s to hit at range
Evade! Evade! rule
Can purchase 1 SW per 6 FWs. Options are: Plasma Rifle, Rail Rifle, Burst Cannon (which I think should be Assault 4 and R24"), Fusion Blaster, Flamer (possible with the special Hellhound firing rules), Rail Rifle and Ion Blaster with appropriate costs.
New weapon: Ion Blaster, S4 AP3 Assault 3 18".
Pulse Carbines Assault 2
Pulse Rifles 15" double tap.

Pathfinders

12 points each
BS3 WS2 Re-roll 1s to hit at range
Evade! Evade! rule
May take as many Rail Rifles as they want at +3 points each
May fire Carbines in addition to their MLs, and when doing so they may use one of the bonuses.
ML tokens removed; all units firing at a ML'd unit may take 1 bonus
Can infiltrate

I Dunno about the Special Weapons for the Fire Warriors. It goes against Tau Battle Doctrines to have Special Weapons with the Fire Warriors.