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I'm going to have to go with fateweaver here aswell, with his superior movement he should be able to get a few wounds on margaret errr I mean mag uruk before he can actually make it into combat. Then I think fateweaver should be able to outlast a depleted ghazza unless he fails one of his leadership tests.

G00fySmiley wrote:ghaz vs fateweaver... assuming ghaz got the charge then ghaz. assuming fateweaver got the charge... fateweaver

in reality they are still locked in combat at the end of turn 6 barring some very unlucky rolls on either side

basically comes down to the charge, those extra 2 attacks on the charge just slightly tilt it to ghaz if I'm calculating it right. Assuming he waaagh'ed for the 6 inch charge and fleet he should be the one getting the charge

either way these are two characters who would easily flatten almost 90% of the list against each other turn 1.... why?

Spelling and Grammar PLEASE!!!! sigh...

fix'd ish...

And why? because they were nominated (Fateweaver is my baby)

King Pariah wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:ghaz vs fateweaver... assuming ghaz got the charge then ghaz. assuming fateweaver got the charge... fateweaver

in reality they are still locked in combat at the end of turn 6 barring some very unlucky rolls on either side

basically comes down to the charge, those extra 2 attacks on the charge just slightly tilt it to ghaz if I'm calculating it right. Assuming he waaagh'ed for the 6 inch charge and fleet he should be the one getting the charge

either way these are two characters who would easily flatten almost 90% of the list against each other turn 1.... why?

Spelling and Grammar PLEASE!!!! sigh...

fix'd ish...

And why? because they were nominated (Fateweaver is my baby)

sorry i type on my phone so i can't spell check on it. I only see a sentence at a tiem i'll spell check it at home after work.

and i get that they were nominated. but its kind of like the number 1 and number 2 picks going against eachother in a single elimination tourney round 1

also note in my math i may have infered a ruel we use in house for these independant character matchups, a 24x24 play surface

We should have Warhammer 40k Rap Battles

It just worked out that way. Started at the top of the list and alternated across pools moving down. That determined the seeds, and thus the battles. However if NHL/NFL/CFL etc playoffs have shown us anything, it's that anything can happen regardless of seeding.

Can fateweaver reroll ALL failed saves, or just 1 per round? Even then, a constant 3++ kicks butt against anything. Add in rerolls, and that chance to instagib on a bad dice, and I agree. Fateweaver looks to be the tougher customer.

And yes, these matches are on a 24x24 with average terrain.

He can reroll all failed saves

Ghazzy hands down. Wayy too many power klaw attacks for even a daemonic bird to handle.

but what are power klaws if your hitting something with a rerollable 3++? and the target hits back and all you get is a 4+?

in any case, voting opens tomorrow... any other thoughts on this match?

ghaz has a 2+ armor and a 5++ (++ being inv save)

on the waaagh which lasts that turn and the next players turn

he has a 2++

really mathhammer puts it in the really close category (and lasting more than 6 turns in alot of cases)

granted the first turn, (on ghaz charge) gives him a slight edge, simply because of the 2++.... but after that kairos should tear him a new one, being a MC and all, and ghaz only having the 5+, while defending with a 3+ against the pk.

ws wise, i think they match, wounds, same, ghaz strikes last due to his PK, and as for specials, kairos has the ability to instagib ghaz, while ghaz doesnt have much in the way back. granted, a lucky dice round could swing it towards ghazskull. but i think simply because of the invuns Fateweaver has the minimal edge.

I know Kairos is annoying as hell, but in this fight either character can insta-gib the other on bad dice rolls. It is literally dependent on which one gets unlucky. Makes perfect sense for a Tzeentch daemon to be dependent on Chaos, right? Which has a better chance to happen: Kairos rolling an 11+ or Ghaz rolling a 6?

SoulGazer wrote:I know Kairos is annoying as hell, but in this fight either character can insta-gib the other on bad dice rolls. It is literally dependent on which one gets unlucky. Makes perfect sense for a Tzeentch daemon to be dependent on Chaos, right? Which has a better chance to happen: Kairos rolling an 11+ or Ghaz rolling a 6?

You mean Kairos rolling an 11+ AFTER rerolling his failed 3++

King Pariah wrote:

SoulGazer wrote:I know Kairos is annoying as hell, but in this fight either character can insta-gib the other on bad dice rolls. It is literally dependent on which one gets unlucky. Makes perfect sense for a Tzeentch daemon to be dependent on Chaos, right? Which has a better chance to happen: Kairos rolling an 11+ or Ghaz rolling a 6?

You mean Kairos rolling an 11+ AFTER rerolling his failed 3++

A re-rollable 3++

deathholydeath wrote:

King Pariah wrote:

SoulGazer wrote:I know Kairos is annoying as hell, but in this fight either character can insta-gib the other on bad dice rolls. It is literally dependent on which one gets unlucky. Makes perfect sense for a Tzeentch daemon to be dependent on Chaos, right? Which has a better chance to happen: Kairos rolling an 11+ or Ghaz rolling a 6?

You mean Kairos rolling an 11+ AFTER rerolling his failed 3++

A re-rollable 3++

No, it's reroll all failed saves (his 3++)

"Oracle of Eternity: Because of the incredible prescience of the Oracle of Tzeentch, Fateweaver and all friendly units within 6" may reroll all failed Armour, Invulnerable, and Cover saves..."

Kairos is a pain, but having run Eldrad (who usually also has a re-rollable 3+ invulnerable save) I can tell you, they will fail with enough dice thrown at them. Ghaz is one of the worst matchups for Kairos because he can get into combat easy, and has the weight of attacks to back it up.

Given his "Prophet of the Waaaagh!" rule, he can easily match Kairos' threat range, with 7 S10 attacks on the charge (with 5 attacks base). Kairos, sadly only gets 3 attacks on the charge, 2 at base, and needs 4+ to hit 4+ to wound. Melee is going to be an uphill battle for Kairos.

However, Ghaz doesn't hold near an advantage at range, that kairos does. So Kairos could in theory, stay back and try and use the terrain and shooting attacks to increase his advantage.

it'll be pretty brutal, either way.

I voted Ghazzy, because I think he just has the slight edge over Kairos.

As a side note: how did Yriel not even make it in?

1 day left and ghaz has the voting lead so far.

@ rogukiel - alot of favirotes did not make it in. downside of only 16 spots for 39 entrants.

Speaking of which... If the spots were so limited, how did Grimaldus make it? I mean, fluff wise the guy is amazing, rules wise on the other hand... Obviously a relic from fourth edition where HQs were not supposed to be almighty heroes. He doesn't stand up to any real 200ish point hq these days.

popularity? he barley made it in.... it was a 4 way tie for last spot, and grimaldus had 1 more vote at the end to squeak him in. weird, but thats how it happens with these things.

DarthSpader wrote:popularity? he barley made it in.... it was a 4 way tie for last spot, and grimaldus had 1 more vote at the end to squeak him in. weird, but thats how it happens with these things.

Old one eye should have gotten in *grumble*.

i still dont think Ghazy could beat Fateweave in a fight, i just think people are forgetting alot of rules, Like how fateweaver moves like jump infantry and ghazy is slow n purposefull, or that fate has 3 different spells he can do at range hitting on 2,s ghaz has his twin linked shoota...

If the battle remains ranged Fateweaver would rock, but even if it became melee, Fateweaver's attacks cause ID on a leadership test if you fail you die, on top of that he can also Use boom of mutation in the shooting phase to try and turn ghaz into a spawn, sure its only on a 6 up but Fateweaver could stay there a long long time with a 3++

sure he could also get shot once and run away but it is alot less likley then Ghaz failing a leadership test off his 5+ inv then Fateweaver failing his on a 3++ invul

Nightrave wrote:i still dont think Ghazy could beat Fateweave in a fight, i just think people are forgetting alot of rules, Like how fateweaver moves like jump infantry and ghazy is slow n purposefull, or that fate has 3 different spells he can do at range hitting on 2,s ghaz has his twin linked shoota...

If the battle remains ranged Fateweaver would rock, but even if it became melee, Fateweaver's attacks cause ID on a leadership test if you fail you die, on top of that he can also Use boom of mutation in the shooting phase to try and turn ghaz into a spawn, sure its only on a 6 up but Fateweaver could stay there a long long time with a 3++

sure he could also get shot once and run away but it is alot less likley then Ghaz failing a leadership test off his 5+ inv then Fateweaver failing his on a 3++ invul

Ghaz has eternal warrior, ID is meaningless.

boon of mutation is a replace with spawn thing. i dont think eternal warrior matters for that.

He's talking about a force weapon methinks, because ID on a leadership check is a force weapon if memory serves.

Fateweaver has a special rule called Soul devourer which counts him treated as a power weapon (meaningless, given his MC status) but also confers the ability that for ever wound he deals in close combat, the enemy model has to make a leadership save (Note, this leadership test is taken for each wound received... so two tests for two wounds) or suffer instant death.

I believe this is what he was talking about, not the boon of mutation. However, Kain is correct, that EW will negate this bonus effect.

And again, I agree with Nightrave. Like I said before, if Fateweaver can keep at range and not get caught up in Ghaz's WAAAAAGH! then he should be able to take it. But if it goes to melee, the sheer weight of Ghaz's attacks will most likely overwhelm Fateweaver.

Fateweaver has a 14% chance to turn Ghazghkull into a blob, while Thrakka has a 5% chance to make Fateweaver run away.

Fateweaver deals .44 wounds each round of combat and goes first, killing Thrakka after 9 rounds. Thrakka deals .30 wounds to Fateweaver per round of combat, killing him after 10 rounds.

Either one getting the charge does not change the outcome.
Each turn of Waagh! Increase the number of rounds it takes to kill Thrakka by 1.

The chance of boon doing nothing for 10 player turns (= five times) is 47%.
The chance of fateweaver not running after taking two wounds is 69%

Statistically Fateweaver would win.

Well the votes spoke, and Ghazzy takes this one. next up the Swarmlord facing off against Lysander.

my initial thoughts here: lysander has a thunder hammer and storm sheield, wich should counter nicley to the swarmlords MC status, however the bonesabers forcing rerolls on invuns might ruin lysanders day. i dont have a marine dex handy, is lysander EW? i know the swarmlord is not... but the psyker abilities might make up for it in the shooting phase, where lysander lacks. im not really the best at the mathhammer, so what are the numbers here?

Yeah, he's Eternal Warrior.
I've got to go with the Swarmlord.
4 attacks (5 on the charge) before Lysander, Preferred Enemy, Lysander will likely be WS 1 the first turn of combat and the invuls will be similar (3+ re-roll passes is about the same as a 4+)
Both are 2+ to wound.
After the first round, Swarmy needs a 3+ to hit, Lysander needs a 4+.

:O

is it just who gets the most votes wins?

And I'm thinking Swarmlord for this one. That dude is brutal in melee.

Swarmlord wins this one...he has more attacks, higher WS, more wounds, higher initiative, has psychic powers. Strength and toughness don't matter. A slightly better save (4++ is better than a 3++ with the reroll).

I'm also a bit confused as to how the winner is determined. If it's nothing but voting, why was there talk of a "24x24 board with average terrain"?