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helium42 wrote:
And your point is? Do you not understand that some people simply would rather not paint.

I already asked that and got no response. Realize that this thread has moved on from(or in actuality, never was about) being an actual discussion and it'll be way more fun for ya.

These threads are always about the "must painters" being absolutely right and patting each other on the back about how awesome their version of things is.

I am going to create a 'coolness algorithm' which will compute how cool you are. It takes in your clothing style, ability to hold alcohol, general social skills, number of girls dated/slept with, and playing ability. If your score is below a certain arbitrary level, you are not only not as cool as me, but in fact, not cool enough for me to even bother acknowleding at the game store.

Enjoy being shunned for your lack of awesomeness, pleb.

Look, I totally respect if you don't want to paint your models. It really doesn't erk me to fight gray models or base coated models.

And if you'd rather hire someone to paint your models. That's okay too. There are some great commissioner's here on Dakka.

But looking at a fully painted army you did yourself, after a year or two of planning the army and collecting models and spending the many long nights putting it all together. It feel's fething great.

I don't see how this thread can have anything other than strong views to be honest. In my defence there should have been one of these next to lazy b******s.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I don't think there is anybody on this thread who could truthfully say that they could not do something like the above if they had 4 weeks to do it. Unless of course you had a disability. I knew another person from a tournament that had an undead army full of skeletons. Even after two years, the same army was unpainted.

Are you ignoring the point I (and others) are making?
Or are you going to agree to the junk kicking proposal I've put forward?

I dont get why people that dont want to participate in the hobby, bother playing the game at all. The hobby is the full package.

This whole thing reminds me of when my sister used to play GTA2. She would find a parked car, jump in and then try her best to drive around town legally, obeying traffic signals, and staying in her lane.

Doesnt matter if its fun, its doing it wrong.

This is what has driven me towards historicals. Historical wargamers argue about historical inaccuracies in paint schemes, but they can have those arguments because (almost) all of them are dedicated hobbyists and have painted their miniatures in the first place.

I believe this attitude, that participating in the hobby is not required for gameplay, has come from the intense gameist focus that games workshop has instilled in its customer base. They have decided to make the fields of grey a legitimate tactic, because it helps shift miniatures to those who wouldnt otherwise bother.

I dont mind people who are in the process of painting their armies, and will often help tutor those who are trying to paint their army. But i do get disgruntled with people who buy the army of the month, assemble them poorly, play with them until the next release, then ebay their grey crud. There are games you can play with tokens, there are games with cards that support buying exactly whats on the win list and playing with that, but miniatures wargaming should be firmly off their radar.

Naturally all IMHO

GBL wrote:
Doesnt matter if its fun, its doing it wrong.

Glad we have the correctness police here to throw around their moral authority on everything we do.

Quick everyone, stop having fun playing your games, that's not what they're for.

GBL wrote:I dont get why people that dont want to participate in the hobby, bother playing the game at all. The hobby is the full package.

No, that's your hobby.


The hobby of playing wargames does not intrinsically involve painting miniatures. My RISK boardgame has minatures. I've never felt a need to paint them, nor, I suspect, have the vast majority of people who own the game. And to a lot of gamers, 40K is no different to games like RISK... it's just a boardgame that uses a bigger board.

If your hobby involves painting miniatures, that's fine. For some fishermen, their hobby includes fishing, and also includes building their own rods. That doesn't mean that the people who just buy a rod and go chuck a line in the water are doing it wrong... they're just confining their hobby to the activity that they enjoy... because that's what hobbies are for.

Platuan4th wrote:

GBL wrote:
Doesnt matter if its fun, its doing it wrong.

Glad we have the correctness police here to throw around their moral authority on everything we do.

I know i tempt the BADWRONGFUN meme, but some times it is accurate.

GBL wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

GBL wrote:
Doesnt matter if its fun, its doing it wrong.

Glad we have the correctness police here to throw around their moral authority on everything we do.

I know i tempt the BADWRONGFUN meme, but some times it is accurate.

Know when it's not?

RIGHT NOW.

There is no wrong way to enjoy or do a legal hobby and thinking otherwise is self-righteous posturing. Hell, if someone took their 40K figures and made pew-pew noises and banged them together like little green army men and enjoyed the hell out of it, they're STILL not doing it wrong.

I almost never convert figures, but I do paint my miniatures. It's a point of pride with me to never field un-painted figures. But I realise that not everyone holds themselves to that standard, So I don't get too concerned about seeing unpainted figures. One way to look at it is that my own armies look all that much better when everyone else in the store has unpainted or partially painted figures!

That being said, there are a number of reputable painting services in third world countires that do good work at a reasonable price. In some cases you can get nice quality work done for about 2$US an infantry model. At those prices, I personally feel there is no excuse for the non-painter NOT to have painted armies. But to each his own....

TR

GBL wrote:I dont get why people that dont want to participate in the hobby, bother playing the game at all. The hobby is the full package.

This whole thing reminds me of when my sister used to play GTA2. She would find a parked car, jump in and then try her best to drive around town legally, obeying traffic signals, and staying in her lane.

Doesnt matter if its fun, its doing it wrong.

This is what has driven me towards historicals. Historical wargamers argue about historical inaccuracies in paint schemes, but they can have those arguments because (almost) all of them are dedicated hobbyists and have painted their miniatures in the first place.

I believe this attitude, that participating in the hobby is not required for gameplay, has come from the intense gameist focus that games workshop has instilled in its customer base. They have decided to make the fields of grey a legitimate tactic, because it helps shift miniatures to those who wouldnt otherwise bother.

I dont mind people who are in the process of painting their armies, and will often help tutor those who are trying to paint their army. But i do get disgruntled with people who buy the army of the month, assemble them poorly, play with them until the next release, then ebay their grey crud. There are games you can play with tokens, there are games with cards that support buying exactly whats on the win list and playing with that, but miniatures wargaming should be firmly off their radar.

Naturally all IMHO

Do you also get angry when people pose their models in poses you dont find realistic? What if my shirt happens to match my armies paint scheme, or doesnt match it? What if I carry my models not in an expensive battlefoam case, but a large cardboard box with those cheap pluck out foam trays in it? What if, instead of drinking mountain dew while playing, I drink a protein shake, or sprite mixed with rum? Sometimes, while my opponent is moving his models, I like to text people. Do all these things, which have nothing to do with you, and no effect on you, also make you angry? Because, I definitely get SO MAD and SO ANGRY about people doing things that trigger my strange ocd over things that dont matter.

insaniak wrote:

GBL wrote:I dont get why people that dont want to participate in the hobby, bother playing the game at all. The hobby is the full package.

If your hobby involves painting miniatures, that's fine. For some fishermen, their hobby includes fishing, and also includes building their own rods. That doesn't mean that the people who just buy a rod and go chuck a line in the water are doing it wrong... they're just confining their hobby to the activity that they enjoy... because that's what hobbies are for.

To extend your own analogy:

What we have isnt fisherman buying their own rods instead of building them, we have fishermen entering contests with unassembled unfinished rods. It would all be fine if said fishermen bought finished rods, nobody would ever know or care, and everyone knows that there are plenty of finished working rods on ebay. Except where the analogy falls apart is that these broken rods still allow people to play and win fishing competitions, where they have put in practically zero effort. A flow on effect is that in fishing competition photos, there are unassembled and broken rods in all the photos.

Doesnt seem good for any of the fishermen concerned, except those who are allowed to compete with broken rods.

I think its find to give them (the non painters) a freindly nudge once in a while. "Hey, nice paint job, Grey Legion?" sure they say they dont have time etc. but thats not the case since they had time to assemble the army etc. paint jobs can be done really quick, especially if they play marines. I think its ok to ask for a little effort since part of the cool factor of the game is seeing painted armies. Just my .02$

GBL wrote:
This whole thing reminds me of when my sister used to play GTA2. She would find a parked car, jump in and then try her best to drive around town legally, obeying traffic signals, and staying in her lane.

I used to do that, it was the ultimate way of bucking the system.

Funnily, the game didn't break, just as 40K (or whatever) won't break due to the light reflecting from the miniatures in certain wavelengths.

Eidolon wrote:

GBL wrote:I dont get why people that dont want to participate in the hobby, bother playing the game at all. The hobby is the full package.

This whole thing reminds me of when my sister used to play GTA2. She would find a parked car, jump in and then try her best to drive around town legally, obeying traffic signals, and staying in her lane.

Doesnt matter if its fun, its doing it wrong.

This is what has driven me towards historicals. Historical wargamers argue about historical inaccuracies in paint schemes, but they can have those arguments because (almost) all of them are dedicated hobbyists and have painted their miniatures in the first place.

I believe this attitude, that participating in the hobby is not required for gameplay, has come from the intense gameist focus that games workshop has instilled in its customer base. They have decided to make the fields of grey a legitimate tactic, because it helps shift miniatures to those who wouldnt otherwise bother.

I dont mind people who are in the process of painting their armies, and will often help tutor those who are trying to paint their army. But i do get disgruntled with people who buy the army of the month, assemble them poorly, play with them until the next release, then ebay their grey crud. There are games you can play with tokens, there are games with cards that support buying exactly whats on the win list and playing with that, but miniatures wargaming should be firmly off their radar.

Naturally all IMHO

Do you also get angry when people pose their models in poses you dont find realistic? What if my shirt happens to match my armies paint scheme, or doesnt match it? What if I carry my models not in an expensive battlefoam case, but a large cardboard box with those cheap pluck out foam trays in it? What if, instead of drinking mountain dew while playing, I drink a protein shake, or sprite mixed with rum? Sometimes, while my opponent is moving his models, I like to text people. Do all these things, which have nothing to do with you, and no effect on you, also make you angry? Because, I definitely get SO MAD and SO ANGRY about people doing things that trigger my strange ocd over things that dont matter.

I dont care if you spray paint your whole army pink, and drybrush blue over your commander model, what matters is an attempt to show participation.

Doesnt matter near me, all of the local tournaments i have been to require 3 colours over every model minimum.

But sure, imply i have a problem with your shirt, because thats relevant.

GBL wrote:

insaniak wrote:

GBL wrote:I dont get why people that dont want to participate in the hobby, bother playing the game at all. The hobby is the full package.

If your hobby involves painting miniatures, that's fine. For some fishermen, their hobby includes fishing, and also includes building their own rods. That doesn't mean that the people who just buy a rod and go chuck a line in the water are doing it wrong... they're just confining their hobby to the activity that they enjoy... because that's what hobbies are for.

To extend your own analogy:

What we have isnt fisherman buying their own rods instead of building them, we have fishermen entering contests with unassembled unfinished rods. It would all be fine if said fishermen bought finished rods, nobody would ever know or care, and everyone knows that there are plenty of finished working rods on ebay. Except where the analogy falls apart is that these broken rods still allow people to play and win fishing competitions, where they have put in practically zero effort. A flow on effect is that in fishing competition photos, there are unassembled and broken rods in all the photos.

Doesnt seem good for any of the fishermen concerned, except those who are allowed to compete with broken rods.

Oh noes, unassembled and broken rods in the photos. Nobody gave a feth, because the fishermen who won the fishing competition still did it through being honest. I like how you assume painting should have some kind of bearing on your performance on the table top. Do you enjoy painting for paintings sake? If so, then stfu and enjoy painting. If you enjoy it so you can show up to the lgs and feel better about yourself for having color on your models, consider counseling. A lot, and I mean a lot, of the people who win tournaments also know the fluff inside and out, and paint very well.

Upload a photo of some of your painted models, I want to critique them.

GBL wrote:What we have isnt fisherman buying their own rods instead of building them, we have fishermen entering contests with unassembled unfinished rods.

No, we don't, since an unassembled fishing rod woul dbe functionally useless.

An unpainted miniature is not. It's just not as pretty, (although given some of the paintjobs I've seen over the years, even that is questionable at times).


So really, what your argument boils down to is that people arent allowed to play unless their army is up to your personal standard.

GBL wrote:

But sure, imply i have a problem with your shirt, because thats relevant.

No, thats the point, its totally irrelevant, just like other people not painting their models is, or at least SHOULD be irrelevant to your enjoyment of warhammer.

I think that the hobby can be achieved in various phases.


First phase: I bought my necrons, started to glue them together. Then me and my friends started playing.

Phase two: I need moar. I bought my nids army. Still, no painting done.

Phase three: after all this playing, converting stuff, reading about the lore and getting dizzy from glue vapors, I think I'm ready to paint some easy stuff. I started with my necrons warriors and lords. Everage results. It's ok. My friends like them, I like them.

Phase four: gak just got real. I'm now doing some nids, I'm even doing some ink, dry brushing, doing stuff over when I'm not happpy with the results. Surprise, I'm now looking at the painting and modeling tips and triks threads on dakka.


Took me 2 years to start painting and like it. Same for some of my friends. It may take you 1, 2, 3 or 6 years, it will come in time

hotsauceman1 wrote:
But is it too much to ask people at least attempt to paint there armys? I know alot of people dont have the time but i see people buying more and never painting.
Am i asking to much?

Yes it is.

Not everyone approaches the hobby the same way. Some only like to paint. Some like to convert. Some like to play. Some like to do it all. Not everyone comes at it the same way.

Eidolon wrote:No, thats the point, its totally irrelevant, just like other people not painting their models is, or at least SHOULD be irrelevant to your enjoyment of warhammer.

To be fair, for those who enjoy the game more for the visual aspect of having two fully painted armies on a table full of terrain, an opponent with an unpainted army does affect their enjoyment of the game.

But that doesn't mean that the guy with the unpainted army is doing it wrong... just that, if you think it's going to affect your enjoyment significantly, he's someone you're better off not playing against.

charley29 wrote:Took me 2 years to start painting and like it. Same for some of my friends. It may take you 1, 2, 3 or 6 years, it will come in time

Took me 2 years to start getting kicked in the junk on a regular basis. Same for some of my friends. It may take you 1, 2, 3, or 6 years, it will come in time.

I am present. I cannot paint nor do i want to. Considering how many models I have. For people like me, i just don't have time to paint. Helk I can't even play wargames right now because i am so busy.

insaniak wrote:

Eidolon wrote:No, thats the point, its totally irrelevant, just like other people not painting their models is, or at least SHOULD be irrelevant to your enjoyment of warhammer.

To be fair, for those who enjoy the game more for the visual aspect of having two fully painted armies on a table full of terrain, an opponent with an unpainted army does affect their enjoyment of the game.

But that doesn't mean that the guy with the unpainted army is doing it wrong... just that, if you think it's going to affect your enjoyment significantly, he's someone you're better off not playing against.

Sure, but I dont see people with unpainted armies posting about how those with painted armies make them feel bad and destroy their enjoyment of the game by making their models look ugly.

Eidolon wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Eidolon wrote:No, thats the point, its totally irrelevant, just like other people not painting their models is, or at least SHOULD be irrelevant to your enjoyment of warhammer.

To be fair, for those who enjoy the game more for the visual aspect of having two fully painted armies on a table full of terrain, an opponent with an unpainted army does affect their enjoyment of the game.

But that doesn't mean that the guy with the unpainted army is doing it wrong... just that, if you think it's going to affect your enjoyment significantly, he's someone you're better off not playing against.

Sure, but I dont see people with unpainted armies posting about how those with painted armies make them feel bad and destroy their enjoyment of the game by making their models look ugly.

Wait, haven't a few people in this very thre... OOOOOHHH.

insaniak wrote:

Eidolon wrote:No, thats the point, its totally irrelevant, just like other people not painting their models is, or at least SHOULD be irrelevant to your enjoyment of warhammer.

To be fair, for those who enjoy the game more for the visual aspect of having two fully painted armies on a table full of terrain, an opponent with an unpainted army does affect their enjoyment of the game.

But that doesn't mean that the guy with the unpainted army is doing it wrong... just that, if you think it's going to affect your enjoyment significantly, he's someone you're better off not playing against.

I have to agree with the above statement.
Playing on a nice battlefield with nicely modeled and created terrain with two armies that are both fully painted is (for me) way more fun that facing a grey legion. I am not saying that there is anything i can do to make someone paint their army so that i inherently enjoy the game more (other than taking a gentle poke at their grey legion), but i appreciate when people at least try to paint. Part of the reason that the battle reports from White dwarf look so cool is the fact that the armies are painted and the terrain is so nice.

Platuan4th wrote:

Eidolon wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Eidolon wrote:No, thats the point, its totally irrelevant, just like other people not painting their models is, or at least SHOULD be irrelevant to your enjoyment of warhammer.

To be fair, for those who enjoy the game more for the visual aspect of having two fully painted armies on a table full of terrain, an opponent with an unpainted army does affect their enjoyment of the game.

But that doesn't mean that the guy with the unpainted army is doing it wrong... just that, if you think it's going to affect your enjoyment significantly, he's someone you're better off not playing against.

Sure, but I dont see people with unpainted armies posting about how those with painted armies make them feel bad and destroy their enjoyment of the game by making their models look ugly.

Wait, haven't a few people in this very thre... OOOOOHHH.

I also dont see competitive gamers posting about how people running poor lists effects their enjoyment of the game, we just wont play you as its not what we are looking for. I dont bring this up to try and stir another slowed hobby v competitive circlejerk, but because I want to know why the paint nazis seem to get buttpained over the idea of losing to an unpainted army.

insaniak wrote:

GBL wrote:What we have isnt fisherman buying their own rods instead of building them, we have fishermen entering contests with unassembled unfinished rods.

No, we don't, since an unassembled fishing rod woul dbe functionally useless.

An unpainted miniature is not. It's just not as pretty, (although given some of the paintjobs I've seen over the years, even that is questionable at times).


So really, what your argument boils down to is that people arent allowed to play unless their army is up to your personal standard.

Not what i was getting at. I just find it odd they are involved at all.. People "Arent allowed to paint at all". but its not much of an ask that people participate.

Oh noes, unassembled and broken rods in the photos. Nobody gave a feth, because the fishermen who won the fishing competition still did it through being honest. I like how you assume painting should have some kind of bearing on your performance on the table top. Do you enjoy painting for paintings sake? If so, then stfu and enjoy painting. If you enjoy it so you can show up to the lgs and feel better about yourself for having color on your models, consider counseling. A lot, and I mean a lot, of the people who win tournaments also know the fluff inside and out, and paint very well.

Upload a photo of some of your painted models, I want to critique them.

Sure thing. This mini took about 15 minutes total time hands on to paint, and it only took that long because of my damn shaky hands. I used one of millions of painting tutorials to help me. (the exact one is here: http://camospecs.com/Article.asp?FictionID=33)




THE OP was about people who put NO attempt toward painting models, and that is the problem. I havent said anything against poorly painted models or slow painting in progress.

Nicely painted mini sir. I would have no qualms about facing your shaky handed paint job. it looks great to me.