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inquisitorlewis wrote:

Kirasu wrote:I think 40k is an expensive hobby if you don't enjoy the painting aspect.

This won't be agreed upon by everybody, but it is a very good point. I don't mind the cost because of the hours spent assembling & painting, plus the endless hours of playing once it's done. I feel like it is an overall solid investment of entertainment dollars when you have all those aspects.

Hell, I DO enjoy painting and I think 40K is expensive.

I'd say too expensive, but I'm really bad about only buying what I need. I LOVE options and constantly changing my lists. It's why I own enough Cryx for Unbound and every 40K army except Necrons(sold off) and Black Templars(don't care about). Also, every AT-43 army, 3 tackle boxes of Heroclix, 4-5 Fantasy armies...


I have a problem(but it's not painting, as most of it is)...

I paint a squad per month not including the rhino. I log down each hour I paint so I know when to stop. After 30 hours, even if it's before the months end I stop painting the squad and consider it done. I've been painting my army this way and it makes it less a hassle. Ive spent about 80 hours so far pai ring my necrons.

I have always wondered about the hobby nazis who dont have the same level of painting/fluff knowledge as a lot of us competitive guys. I have encountered, at least locally, a segment of the 40k population that likes to talk up the hobby and fluff aspect, and talk down the gamin aspect, without actually being good at the hobby or fluff aspect. The local guys who run tough armies tend to also win best painted and have the best fluff knowledge. I think this is something thats largely ignored in these discussions, the extremely well rounded gamer.

Honestly, the only reason why I havn't painted my IG is because of the model count....and the fact that the people that have 6 wonderfully painted armies, still judge you on your "iffy" looking models as they tend to think you put in as little work as possible to get it done because your lazy. This motivates me not to paint. The only time I buckle down and get sizable amounts of models done is when I have a deadline (i.e. I just painted my entire Empire army for a painting contest).

I hate painting = I don't Paint.

Just like


I hate letting some guy kick me in the nuts = i don't let him kick me in the nuts.


If you don't like me not painting, paint my damn army for me!

Pacific wrote:
I would take this a hundred times over the unpainted, unassembled BA army that turns up week after week. Personally I would be ashamed to do that and to place it on the table, but then I guess it comes down to if you believe in that whole 'social contract' thing and care at all about the kind of experience that your opponent will have.

I consider it part of the social contract to not be condemned as some sort of inferior being based on a completely arbitrary standard. I get the feeling some people here just look for reasons to feel superior. It's like listening to "ethical" vegetarians.

Why would I care if someone's models were painted or not? Why would I even care if they were models?

I just want to play.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Each to their own, it's just that my personal preference is painted armies. Thank you and good night.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:As far as I'm concerned, people who don't paint = lazy b******s!!!

Pick a viewpoint and stick with it, please. You can't have both the "yeah they are lazy expletives!" and "each to their own."

lord_blackfang wrote:

Pacific wrote:
I would take this a hundred times over the unpainted, unassembled BA army that turns up week after week. Personally I would be ashamed to do that and to place it on the table, but then I guess it comes down to if you believe in that whole 'social contract' thing and care at all about the kind of experience that your opponent will have.

I consider it part of the social contract to not be condemned as some sort of inferior being based on a completely arbitrary standard. I get the feeling some people here just look for reasons to feel superior. It's like listening to "ethical" vegetarians.

Actually yeah, thats a really good argument. As someone who is a vegetarian I can tell you I have never bitched at somebody else for eating meat, and feel that doing so puts you in the donkey-cave category. I do it for ethical reasons, but I understand that others may not follow those same choices/beliefs and so I stfu about it. I actually dont tell people, and often times friends find out months after getting to know me.

If you want to paint your models and enjoy that, fine, I hope you enjoy the hobby. I showed up to the last tournament in a $60 shirt, $50 shorts, and $100 shoes. Should I expect the guy in sketchers, cargo shorts, and a really old plain t shirt dress to my standards? From now on, if you arent dressed as well as me, I will look down on you and refuse to play you.

Eidolon wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:

Pacific wrote:
I would take this a hundred times over the unpainted, unassembled BA army that turns up week after week. Personally I would be ashamed to do that and to place it on the table, but then I guess it comes down to if you believe in that whole 'social contract' thing and care at all about the kind of experience that your opponent will have.

I consider it part of the social contract to not be condemned as some sort of inferior being based on a completely arbitrary standard. I get the feeling some people here just look for reasons to feel superior. It's like listening to "ethical" vegetarians.

Actually yeah, thats a really good argument. As someone who is a vegetarian I can tell you I have never bitched at somebody else for eating meat, and feel that doing so puts you in the donkey-cave category. I do it for ethical reasons, but I understand that others may not follow those same choices/beliefs and so I stfu about it. I actually dont tell people, and often times friends find out months after getting to know me.

If you want to paint your models and enjoy that, fine, I hope you enjoy the hobby. I showed up to the last tournament in a $60 shirt, $50 shorts, and $100 shoes. Should I expect the guy in sketchers, cargo shorts, and a really old plain t shirt dress to my standards? From now on, if you arent dressed as well as me, I will look down on you and refuse to play you.

Eidolon, you've made it into my top 10 favorite Dakkites with this post. Thank you for being a generally awesome person.

Lord_blackfang gets super special honorary mention with his. He's climbing the charts.

Lack of time and energy prevents me from painting alot.

When I was unemployed it took me about a month to complete my 1500pts tzeentch daemons army.

Now I work fulltime and its taken about a year to paint my 1500pt DE army.

My personal preference is to play painted armies. I do realise the difference between a new army and one that a player has not painted after several years. I would not refuse to play an unpainted army. As curran12 points out, there are many reasons as to why an army is unpainted sometimes beyond the owner's control.

That said, the four or five games I have enjoyed least have been against unpainted armies. By "unpainted" (which is being generous) I mean not on bases, many bewildering proxies and some amazing rule bending. I even played the same person twice just out of curiosity to see what else he would try. The plasma pistol armed, bionically tooled up (unpainted) Kell was an absolute hoot. Especially as he developed some kind of "I'll be back" rule to boot.

To that end, in my experience, lack of paint on an opponent's army has equalled less enjoyment of a game.

The time factor excuse is utter rubbish, there are plenty of spray paints, washes and quick shades out there which can make a decent looking, inexpensive, quick paint scheme.

MetalOxide wrote:The time factor excuse is utter rubbish, there are plenty of spray paints, washes and quick shades out there which can make a decent looking, inexpensive, quick paint scheme.

What if I dont want to spend money on painting? Its not worth it money wise for me to buy army painter?

MetalOxide wrote:The time factor excuse is utter rubbish, there are plenty of spray paints, washes and quick shades out there which can make a decent looking, inexpensive, quick paint scheme.

Great. How many people have made time an excuse?
Less than fingers on one hand I'd bet.

You're ignoring the fact that painting sucks. Not my ability - the activity.

Maybe if I kick myself in the junk enough I'll start to like it....

hotsauceman1 wrote:Ok, So today i went to a warmachine league to see if i like that game and see if anyone is willing to help me learn a little(they did alot)
But i noticed, alot of people still dont have painted armies, and i dont mean models in the army that arent painted, i mean feilds of gray. This is the same at my 40k night.
Out of the 8-10 people ther only 3 can field a fully painted 1500 the rest have primer and show they give a little bit about painting. This may change though because we will be giving people points for the campaign for coming with a fully painted army.
But is it too much to ask people at least attempt to paint there armys? I know alot of people dont have the time but i see people buying more and never painting.
Am i asking to much?

Yes you are asking too much. If the person who OWNs the models doesn't WANT to or TRY to paint their models it is no business of yours or anyone elses. If the League requires them to be painted then and only then must they field painted armies. Your opinion has no bearing of what they do with the models they OWN. If you don't wish to play them, then don't. That is YOUR right as you OWN your models and your time.

This is a similar issue with Bronies, PETA, Religous people, Democrats, Republicans, etc... The whole "my opinion holds more water than theirs and therefore must be heeded" point of view. Opinions are just Thoughts based on limited and anecdotal evidence from a personal point ov view. That's it! Just because you have an opinion about what you perceive as right, does not make it right. It has no weight nor does it have any relevance on how another person conducts their life.

It doesn't matter if the guy with an unpainted army has no time, no desire, or no hands YOU have no bearing on his property nor on his enjoyment of the game.

UsdiThunder wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Ok, So today i went to a warmachine league to see if i like that game and see if anyone is willing to help me learn a little(they did alot)
But i noticed, alot of people still dont have painted armies, and i dont mean models in the army that arent painted, i mean feilds of gray. This is the same at my 40k night.
Out of the 8-10 people ther only 3 can field a fully painted 1500 the rest have primer and show they give a little bit about painting. This may change though because we will be giving people points for the campaign for coming with a fully painted army.
But is it too much to ask people at least attempt to paint there armys? I know alot of people dont have the time but i see people buying more and never painting.
Am i asking to much?

Yes you are asking too much. If the person who OWNs the models doesn't WANT to or TRY to paint their models it is no business of yours or anyone elses. If the League requires them to be painted then and only then must they field painted armies. Your opinion has no bearing of what they do with the models they OWN. If you don't wish to play them, then don't. That is YOUR right as you OWN your models and your time.

This is a similar issue with Bronies, PETA, Religous people, Democrats, Republicans, etc... The whole "my opinion holds more water than theirs and therefore must be heeded" point of view. Opinions are just Thoughts based on limited and anecdotal evidence from a personal point ov view. That's it! Just because you have an opinion about what you perceive as right, does not make it right. It has no weight nor does it have any relevance on how another person conducts their life.

It doesn't matter if the guy with an unpainted army has no time, no desire, or no hands YOU have no bearing on his property nor on his enjoyment of the game.

I think its worth pointing out that tournaments/leagues probably shouldnt require a 3 color minimum for this reason, but instead should have a totally separate painting category.

Eidolon wrote:

UsdiThunder wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Ok, So today i went to a warmachine league to see if i like that game and see if anyone is willing to help me learn a little(they did alot)
But i noticed, alot of people still dont have painted armies, and i dont mean models in the army that arent painted, i mean feilds of gray. This is the same at my 40k night.
Out of the 8-10 people ther only 3 can field a fully painted 1500 the rest have primer and show they give a little bit about painting. This may change though because we will be giving people points for the campaign for coming with a fully painted army.
But is it too much to ask people at least attempt to paint there armys? I know alot of people dont have the time but i see people buying more and never painting.
Am i asking to much?

Yes you are asking too much. If the person who OWNs the models doesn't WANT to or TRY to paint their models it is no business of yours or anyone elses. If the League requires them to be painted then and only then must they field painted armies. Your opinion has no bearing of what they do with the models they OWN. If you don't wish to play them, then don't. That is YOUR right as you OWN your models and your time.

This is a similar issue with Bronies, PETA, Religous people, Democrats, Republicans, etc... The whole "my opinion holds more water than theirs and therefore must be heeded" point of view. Opinions are just Thoughts based on limited and anecdotal evidence from a personal point ov view. That's it! Just because you have an opinion about what you perceive as right, does not make it right. It has no weight nor does it have any relevance on how another person conducts their life.

It doesn't matter if the guy with an unpainted army has no time, no desire, or no hands YOU have no bearing on his property nor on his enjoyment of the game.

I think its worth pointing out that tournaments/leagues probably shouldnt require a 3 color minimum for this reason, but instead should have a totally separate painting category.

Warmachine ones do, at least the Journeyman League. There's even a Journeyman Badge for having the most Hobby(read: painting) points at the end.

In the end, Eidolon that's up to the Organizer or the Press Ganger. For the Organizer it's a way to stir up paint sales if they are the store owner as well. For the Press Ganger it's also helping PP sell paints. Either way it is usually documented what is expected of the players that sign up for the Leagues/Tournaments.

My point is that the OP is asking too much if he is not the organizer and just some guy off the street. If the Organizer doesn't require it then The OP has no say in it.

Interesting discussion.

I'm a painter rather than a player. I've got a sizable Menoth and Merc army for Warmachine, and have just inherited IG, SM and Eldar armies for 40k, and have started a new painting frenzy. I also paint the odd units for friends.

I've probably played 5-6 games of Warmachine, and none yet of 40k, but have hundreds of painting hours under my belt. I'm pretty sure I'm in a significant minority here!

I have no problem whatsoever with any store owner, tournament organizer, or game group that puts some kind of arbitrary restrictions on how play happens within their store/club/tourney. I realize that there is a segment of wargamers who might truly not enjoy playing against an unpainted army, and that is fine. What gets my panties in a twist is when those same people want to tell me I'm lazy for not painting my army, or that I am somehow insulting them for having the gall to try and play a game of toy soldiers without having lovingly painted them first.

pancakeonions wrote:Interesting discussion.

I'm a painter rather than a player. I've got a sizable Menoth and Merc army for Warmachine, and have just inherited IG, SM and Eldar armies for 40k, and have started a new painting frenzy. I also paint the odd units for friends.

I've probably played 5-6 games of Warmachine, and none yet of 40k, but have hundreds of painting hours under my belt. I'm pretty sure I'm in a significant minority here!

I'm not sure if you're really in a small minority or a minority at all. I know quite a few people that collect and paint but rarely or never play, and there are many here on dakka.

If people are looking for a game of skill and strategy that doesn't involve painting, then why not play chess?

curran12, I have the right to change my viewpoint, just as I have the right not to play against unpainted armies.

All in all though, in an ideal world, my personal preference is to play against painted armies, but I understand that people are busy, can't be assed, have the right to do what they want with their property etc etc. That is their perogative.

I don't think any less of people for it, but I would always encourage people to paint. Like I said, it's just plastic soldiers at the end of the day.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:If people are looking for a game of skill and strategy that doesn't involve painting, then why not play chess?

I do play chess. I also happen to enjoy playing warhammer and a few other miniature wargames.

All in all though, in an ideal world, my personal preference is to play against painted armies, but I understand that people are busy, can't be assed, have the right to do what they want with their property etc etc. That is their perogative.

I'm sure there are plenty of people with painted armies around for you to play against. So what is your problem then? Just wanted to start a thread to label those who don't paint their armies as lazy?

I don't think any less of people for it, but I would always encourage people to paint. Like I said, it's just plastic soldiers at the end of the day.

You say this, and in previous posts you call them out as lazy. Which is it?

helium42 wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:If people are looking for a game of skill and strategy that doesn't involve painting, then why not play chess?

I do play chess. I also happen to enjoy playing warhammer and a few other miniature wargames.

I find the variety of ways to win in warhammer more interesting than chess. And its more fun to play socially than chess, at least from my experience, which is a game dominated by old people.

Hey look a thread about me!

5 skeleton warriors.

Basecoat bone with paint X

Wash bone with paint Y

Drybrush bone with paint Z.

Total time less than 1hr. Skill level 2/10

divide 1hr by a month.

I don't think there is anybody on this thread who could truthfully say that they could not do something like the above if they had 4 weeks to do it. Unless of course you had a disability. I knew another person from a tournament that had an undead army full of skeletons. Even after two years, the same army was unpainted.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:5 skeleton warriors.

Basecoat bone with paint X

Wash bone with paint Y

Drybrush bone with paint Z.

Total time less than 1hr. Skill level 2/10

divide 1hr by a month.

I don't think there is anybody on this thread who could truthfully say that they could not do something like the above if they had 4 weeks to do it. Unless of course you had a disability. I knew another person from a tournament that had an undead army full of skeletons. Even after two years, the same army was unpainted.

Yeah so? Maybe I just hate painting and that 1 hour a month is a chore. Maybe I feel that my time spent at bars and going on dates and such uses up enough of my money, and I dont want to spend $10 on paints because thats a movie ticket or a 6 pack of beer. Sure, I can find the time to paint an army. 2 years ago I built a jumpers army and painted a nid army in the same month. But now I just dont want to put more colors on models, because slapping 3 colors on looks sloppy and making them look nice is too much effort. Its also worth noting that someone like me plays 2-3 days a week, and so I cant have my army in various stages of painted. I like to do all of 1 step to everything at once, which means I have to find the time to base all 70 of my gk models in one sitting. Finding the time to do that, and wanting to spend the time to do that, generally isnt easy.

What is it to you then? My dollies are grey and ugly, yours are painted and pretty, nobody cares.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:If people are looking for a game of skill and strategy that doesn't involve painting, then why not play chess?

Because Chess and 40K are different games, and they want to play 40K?

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:If people are looking for a game of skill and strategy that doesn't involve painting, then why not play chess?

Because Chess has well written rules.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:5 skeleton warriors.

Basecoat bone with paint X

Wash bone with paint Y

Drybrush bone with paint Z.

Total time less than 1hr. Skill level 2/10

divide 1hr by a month.

I don't think there is anybody on this thread who could truthfully say that they could not do something like the above if they had 4 weeks to do it. Unless of course you had a disability. I knew another person from a tournament that had an undead army full of skeletons. Even after two years, the same army was unpainted.

And your point is? Do you not understand that some people simply would rather not paint. When somebody says "I don't have time to paint" I don't think that they are literally saying that they can find zero time, but that they have other things they prefer to do with their time.

Your crusade is not likely to change any minds here, if the plethora of other threads on this subject are any indication.

My advice to you is to seek out people with painted armies to play against so that your tender sensibilities are no longer being hurt by the strain of being forced to look at those nasty unpainted armies. Maybe then you'll feel a little happier about your life and cease feeling the need to troll forums with threads calling out certain segments of people as lazy.