Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Accordign to most of the fluffi have read Necrons aren't actually that hard to put down. it's keepign them down that is the problem.

A standard bolt roudn will quite happily put a necron on the ground without a problem, the problem is thatteh space marines has to put anothe rone in afterwards when the necron gets back up again and fires back.

For that reason i find a 4+ with a 5+ WBB quite suitable.

Ascalam wrote:
Try an experiment. Swing a baseball bat at a metal sculpture of a human skeleton, (let's say steel, for lack of Living Metal (which AFAIK isn't explicitly mentioned as being what warriorsar emade of anyway (ships, ctan necrodermis etc yes, but i don't recall seeing it anywhere else).

Then try swinging just as hard at a human wearing a breastplate (read carapace armour).

See which takes damage first. It won't be the solid metal bone (though you could feth up the joints, that would apply even more to the human in the suit).

And if Necrons were just solid metal skeletons, you may have a point. They aren't. They're machines. Machines have vital components which, if broken, prevent them from functioning. Here's a better experiment. Take a baseball bat to your computer and see how many whacks it takes before your computer stops working. Now, take the same kind of computer, put it in a reinforced metal shell, and have a go at it with said bat. You'll notice that, without armor, machines don't hold up well to being attacked. Oh, except Necrons do, because their living metal forms, without armor, are still capable of shrugging off things like Bolter rounds and Mortar shells. And in the new book, even if you hit them with a shot from a Vindicator, they still have a 33% chance to stand right back up as if nothing happened. Not to mention that, thanks to Coverhammer 40k, even if you aren't getting your 4+ Armor Save against an Assault Cannon, there's a good chance that you're still getting a 4+ Cover Save. Sorry guys, I'm not seeing any justification here for the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I have to agree with SkaerKrow, 4+ save is a nerf in one sense because everyone knows there are a ton of AP4 weapons out there, but at the same time with 4+ cover saves everywhere its not that big of a deal.

Plus we were pretty good at taking shooting hits before, I dont really remember loosing to many of those fights, it was the assault phase that we were getting wrecked. The 4+ save makes us worse, however 5+ wbb always will be nice as well as 1/3 less per troop choice. Its much easier loosing a 120 point unit to sweeping advance (especially if there is no phase out) than loosing a 160 point unit.

Actually now that I think about it, the real boon to necron warriors is that if phase out is retracted they can actually be used, instead of just sucking wind and every necron player praying they stay in reserve until late as possible.

SkaerKrow wrote:

Ascalam wrote:
Try an experiment. Swing a baseball bat at a metal sculpture of a human skeleton, (let's say steel, for lack of Living Metal (which AFAIK isn't explicitly mentioned as being what warriorsar emade of anyway (ships, ctan necrodermis etc yes, but i don't recall seeing it anywhere else).

Then try swinging just as hard at a human wearing a breastplate (read carapace armour).

See which takes damage first. It won't be the solid metal bone (though you could feth up the joints, that would apply even more to the human in the suit).

And if Necrons were just solid metal skeletons, you may have a point. They aren't. They're machines. Machines have vital components which, if broken, prevent them from functioning. Here's a better experiment. Take a baseball bat to your computer and see how many whacks it takes before your computer stops working. Now, take the same kind of computer, put it in a reinforced metal shell, and have a go at it with said bat. You'll notice that, without armor, machines don't hold up well to being attacked. Oh, except Necrons do, because their living metal forms, without armor, are still capable of shrugging off things like Bolter rounds and Mortar shells. And in the new book, even if you hit them with a shot from a Vindicator, they still have a 33% chance to stand right back up as if nothing happened. Not to mention that, thanks to Coverhammer 40k, even if you aren't getting your 4+ Armor Save against an Assault Cannon, there's a good chance that you're still getting a 4+ Cover Save. Sorry guys, I'm not seeing any justification here for the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Necrons have all those vital components in an armoured and reinforced shell. They aren'tmade of civilian grade light plastic, with exposed, non-hardened circuitboards that are loosely attached to a case that wasn't designed to take violence. Take the bat to a military computer terminal (i've done this in a demo for the things). It doesn't even dent. Same as Necrons. They are machines made out of armour-grade metal, with all the vital stuff inside that armour.

All the really important stuff is inside the ribcage (armoured as hell) and skull (probably also quite well armoured). The rest is solid metal bones with actuators at the joints that are armoured as hades too.


If they do drop the save to a 4+ i'll not consider it the end of the world. I will consider it a bit more of the marines favouritism that is already so thick it's choking the game.

i have to wonder where everyone seems to be getting the idea that Sweeping Advance will cancel out the supposed new 'can always take WBB rolls'. Have any of you thought (maybe with the new end phase) that "always" might literally mean ALWAYS? As in, "Ha! I just wiped half your squad and sweeping advanced you!" rollrollrollrollroll "Nope, they all get back up." "Uh, okay, but that other unit's been taken down to Phase Out level" rollrollrollroll "Nope, sorry, enough of them got back up."

Because sweeping advance immediately removes all models from the swept unit from play without allowing any save, ect. what-so-ever to be made.

Anvildude wrote:i have to wonder where everyone seems to be getting the idea that Sweeping Advance will cancel out the supposed new 'can always take WBB rolls'. Have any of you thought (maybe with the new end phase) that "always" might literally mean ALWAYS? As in, "Ha! I just wiped half your squad and sweeping advanced you!" rollrollrollrollroll "Nope, they all get back up." "Uh, okay, but that other unit's been taken down to Phase Out level" rollrollrollroll "Nope, sorry, enough of them got back up."

Because there was mention of some rule that states you can always take your WBB even if there's no other model of the same type within 6" or whatever it is. The thing is...why would WBB negate Sweeping Advance? The alive guys would still get sweeping advanced and the dead guys are..well, dead for all intents and purposes. And since SA removes UNITS and not models, those down models are removed with their units.

I doubt it will change in the new edition either. A non SM army immune to SA? Heresy.

yakface wrote:
3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.

Derp.

Herp.

Ascalam wrote:

SkaerKrow wrote:

Ascalam wrote:
Try an experiment. Swing a baseball bat at a metal sculpture of a human skeleton, (let's say steel, for lack of Living Metal (which AFAIK isn't explicitly mentioned as being what warriorsar emade of anyway (ships, ctan necrodermis etc yes, but i don't recall seeing it anywhere else).

Then try swinging just as hard at a human wearing a breastplate (read carapace armour).

See which takes damage first. It won't be the solid metal bone (though you could feth up the joints, that would apply even more to the human in the suit).

And if Necrons were just solid metal skeletons, you may have a point. They aren't. They're machines. Machines have vital components which, if broken, prevent them from functioning. Here's a better experiment. Take a baseball bat to your computer and see how many whacks it takes before your computer stops working. Now, take the same kind of computer, put it in a reinforced metal shell, and have a go at it with said bat. You'll notice that, without armor, machines don't hold up well to being attacked. Oh, except Necrons do, because their living metal forms, without armor, are still capable of shrugging off things like Bolter rounds and Mortar shells. And in the new book, even if you hit them with a shot from a Vindicator, they still have a 33% chance to stand right back up as if nothing happened. Not to mention that, thanks to Coverhammer 40k, even if you aren't getting your 4+ Armor Save against an Assault Cannon, there's a good chance that you're still getting a 4+ Cover Save. Sorry guys, I'm not seeing any justification here for the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Necrons have all those vital components in an armoured and reinforced shell. They aren'tmade of civilian grade light plastic, with exposed, non-hardened circuitboards that are loosely attached to a case that wasn't designed to take violence. Take the bat to a military computer terminal (i've done this in a demo for the things). It doesn't even dent. Same as Necrons. They are machines made out of armour-grade metal, with all the vital stuff inside that armour.

All the really important stuff is inside the ribcage (armoured as hell) and skull (probably also quite well armoured). The rest is solid metal bones with actuators at the joints that are armoured as hades too.


If they do drop the save to a 4+ i'll not consider it the end of the world. I will consider it a bit more of the marines favouritism that is already so thick it's choking the game.

I'm sorry, but your both wrong. Before I start, I want to assure everyone that I'm a PC user and hate Apple.

One day, at my job as an after-school counselor, I happened upon two children playing with their Ipod Touches. And by playing, I meant throwing them against the ground, laughing, and picking them up to be thrown again. I walked over to the children and told them to stop. I gave them the speech about how they are delicate and will break, and how they would cry. The children, being ever so smart, said I didn't know anything, and continued to throw the Ipods at the ground. They told me that the Ipods wouldn't break unless they threw it against some cement on the blacktop, but then tried to assure me that these Ipods were immune to dried dirt and grass.
Minutes went by, maybe two or three, and the children were ever so happy with their resilient toys, when they came up with a better idea, throwing them against the metal jungle-gym! The first child wound up, and hucked the thing as fast as he could, watching his Ipod Touch crumble into pieces. The child began to cry, and I got to clean up the mess with the following "I told you so". The second child, however was smart and decided after watching their friend lose an Ipod that throwing theirs against METAL was a bad idea.
After I finished writing a report on what had happened, I got to witness the other child still throwing their Ipod Touch at the ground, as before. This time, however, it broke. The child ran over to me, who witnessed the entire thing, and blamed another child for smashing it. Alas, I saw what had happened, game the same "I told you so" to the second child, cleaned up the mess, and went on to deal with my easy job.
I'm not trying to say that the Necrons are Ipods, but I'm saying that they are resilient, but will break. They can break easily against the mightiest of opponents, or can fall by the constant stress from a non-threatening foe. Don't compare them to something like a home computer or a metal figure, just realize they aren't Space Marines and will be treated as such.

Wow another armor with a large amount of skimmers, way to be origanal Gw, and necron bikes? Some of this stuff...Gah go ahead and make another Over powered army, we all want it. Just slowed truly slowed

maybe all xenos is gonna end up copies of one another just with different special rules. just like marines are. o.O

In the end the game will be called: SPACE MARINES 40K

So.... people were mad that necrons don't have dedicated transports, skimmers, are too expensive points wise, and not competitive
Now... people are mad that necrons will have dedicated transports, skimmers, are cheaper points wise, and will become competitive.

Head asplode.

The few "nerfs" they are getting seem like they are really just balancing out the buffs they are getting. I get that people don't like the "space marines or bust" attitude gw has, but if necrons will actually have a strong overall codex with plenty of customizable options, is the weaker armor save really worth all the hate? I'm actually excited to hear that I don't have to choose between only 2 builds anymore. I can actually bring necrons to a big GT or Ard Boyz tournament again without being laughed at.

Im pissed because at this rate,the last codex to get updated will be uber-death star, 30 Inch movment vehicles with 14 all around and not open topped, 3+ Avg. Save, and mega special rules.

Unless they change the fluff, Necrons aren't made of Living Metal - the book Nightbringer makes a point that the ships etc are made of a different material than the troops (no mater what DoW says!).
As for smashing up a Necron, I think of them being built more like Black Boxes from aircraft but obviously with some weak points for joints etc; have you ever seen them testing those things? By dropping tons of piston strength on them or setting them on fire?

6th Edition is meant to be lowering FNP to 5+, so 5+ WBB for Necrons would be reasonable.

Also, when comparing the IoM to Necrons, you have to remember that a lot of their advanced technology was "stolen" from the dreams of the Void Dragon prior to the Great Crusade and mixed with the technology from the Dark Age of Technology so there is every justification for the IoM having super fancy tech.

I'm just hoping that my Necrons will be able to bring pain to IG and DE in a way that my Marines can only dream of without having to tailor my list (which I wont do!).

im excited for new codex, and have no problem with 4+ save if units are cheaper or 5+ WBB if FNP is 5+, also, i already use a res orb so that will help with WBB as well

Grim.Badger wrote:Unless they change the fluff, Necrons aren't made of Living Metal - the book Nightbringer makes a point that the ships etc are made of a different material than the troops (no mater what DoW says!).
As for smashing up a Necron, I think of them being built more like Black Boxes from aircraft but obviously with some weak points for joints etc; have you ever seen them testing those things? By dropping tons of piston strength on them or setting them on fire?

6th Edition is meant to be lowering FNP to 5+, so 5+ WBB for Necrons would be reasonable.

Also, when comparing the IoM to Necrons, you have to remember that a lot of their advanced technology was "stolen" from the dreams of the Void Dragon prior to the Great Crusade and mixed with the technology from the Dark Age of Technology so there is every justification for the IoM having super fancy tech.

I'm just hoping that my Necrons will be able to bring pain to IG and DE in a way that my Marines can only dream of without having to tailor my list (which I wont do!).

I'm fairly sure that Fall of Damnos made mention of the necrons being made of the same material as the monoliths.

I don't mind any part of the codex, exept the skimmers. Give them a Rhino equivalent and I would think sweet, but skimmers? Why would they have the urge to move that fast( Last part was comic relief)

Kevin949 wrote:

Grim.Badger wrote:Unless they change the fluff, Necrons aren't made of Living Metal - the book Nightbringer makes a point that the ships etc are made of a different material than the troops (no mater what DoW says!).
As for smashing up a Necron, I think of them being built more like Black Boxes from aircraft but obviously with some weak points for joints etc; have you ever seen them testing those things? By dropping tons of piston strength on them or setting them on fire?

6th Edition is meant to be lowering FNP to 5+, so 5+ WBB for Necrons would be reasonable.

Also, when comparing the IoM to Necrons, you have to remember that a lot of their advanced technology was "stolen" from the dreams of the Void Dragon prior to the Great Crusade and mixed with the technology from the Dark Age of Technology so there is every justification for the IoM having super fancy tech.

I'm just hoping that my Necrons will be able to bring pain to IG and DE in a way that my Marines can only dream of without having to tailor my list (which I wont do!).

I'm fairly sure that Fall of Damnos made mention of the necrons being made of the same material as the monoliths.

FOD also had warriors being made out of a stripped Chimera hull.

That said FOD has some downright dubious fluff in places, that makes Necrons more of a joke than a terrifying threat.

I enjoyed the book, but there were a few places where you have to stop, reread the section, and ask what the hades they had in mind..

Agreed, good book but i'm hoping that not ALL of it is accurate for the new codex,.

TheWildHost wrote:I don't mind any part of the codex, exept the skimmers. Give them a Rhino equivalent and I would think sweet, but skimmers? Why would they have the urge to move that fast( Last part was comic relief)

The need to catch fleeing Eldar

Ascalam wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Grim.Badger wrote:Unless they change the fluff, Necrons aren't made of Living Metal - the book Nightbringer makes a point that the ships etc are made of a different material than the troops (no mater what DoW says!).
As for smashing up a Necron, I think of them being built more like Black Boxes from aircraft but obviously with some weak points for joints etc; have you ever seen them testing those things? By dropping tons of piston strength on them or setting them on fire?

6th Edition is meant to be lowering FNP to 5+, so 5+ WBB for Necrons would be reasonable.

Also, when comparing the IoM to Necrons, you have to remember that a lot of their advanced technology was "stolen" from the dreams of the Void Dragon prior to the Great Crusade and mixed with the technology from the Dark Age of Technology so there is every justification for the IoM having super fancy tech.

I'm just hoping that my Necrons will be able to bring pain to IG and DE in a way that my Marines can only dream of without having to tailor my list (which I wont do!).

I'm fairly sure that Fall of Damnos made mention of the necrons being made of the same material as the monoliths.

FOD also had warriors being made out of a stripped Chimera hull.

That said FOD has some downright dubious fluff in places, that makes Necrons more of a joke than a terrifying threat.

I enjoyed the book, but there were a few places where you have to stop, reread the section, and ask what the hades they had in mind..

Mainly I pointed that out for the reason of...don't listen to fluff in regards to the game. Period.

"But the C'tan had another boon to grant their subjects. They offered the Necrontyr a path to immortality and stability their race had always craved. Their cursed flesh would be replaced with Living Metal in imitation of their gods."

- Necron codex, "The Fall of the Necrontyr," page 25.

Necrons are made of Living Metal, end of story, no debate.

That said, I am not really bothered that much by the 4+ save.

I suppose 4+ armour ain't that bad, but we need WBB to either stay at 4+ or move to a 3+
If WBB changes to 5+ think of what would happen to phylactery, dead or changed...

Anpu-adom wrote: I mean, Necrons have been waiting YEARS for a codex...'

Yep, and we're gonna be waiting a few more

4+ armour sounds fine to me. They're T4, right? So very tough, with decent armour but their main strength is standing back up after you put 'em down. Plus, since they aren't so much MEQs anymore, the points cost can go down, so they can be fielded in hordes like in the fluff.

Isn't one of the rumors that you can 'build' new Warriors from wrecked vehicles?

Anvildude wrote:Isn't one of the rumors that you can 'build' new Warriors from wrecked vehicles?

Surely you are trolling. I've never heard that as a rumor, but it is an interesting idea.

I don't troll. I actually honestly heard that as a bona-fide rumour. From a friend. Who heard it from a friend. That is, the 'social' kind of rumor, not the 'official' kind of rumour.

And yes, it is an interesting idea. Sort of like the Parasite of Mortrex, but with Vehicles.