Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Kroothawk wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Can someone wake up H.B.M.C. ?

I was ninja'd once in this thread. Once. Please get the feth over it already.

More than onceactually : E.g. check my post before your page 42 post

Please refer to my original statement RE: getting the feth over it already.

TiB wrote:

silent25 wrote:I would consider this a textbook example of how to have a successful kickstarter.
1. Company has a established track record for good quality products.

I would be very sad though if kickstarter turned into just a way for established companies to launch a new product risk-free.
I like that every Joe Nobody could get funded as long as he has a good idea (and some basic presentation skills).

Why would you even bring that up? What does an established company using kickstarter have to do with individuals and small companies using kickstarter?

TiB wrote:

silent25 wrote:I would consider this a textbook example of how to have a successful kickstarter.
1. Company has a established track record for good quality products.

I would be very sad though if kickstarter turned into just a way for established companies to launch a new product risk-free.
I like that every Joe Nobody could get funded as long as he has a good idea (and some basic presentation skills).

Kickstarter and many, many other most likely disagree with you.

Again, the beauty of crowdfunding is it is a truly 'Vote With Your Wallet" affair.

TiB wrote:
GW has the means to start bringing out another Space Hulk tomorrow if they'd like. They don't need the up-front funding.

But in GW's (semi illogical) mind they're like "Durr no one likes specialist games"



But we are straying far from the original topic with these "Big Companies in Kickstarter" talk, if you want to talk about them then theres some other forums where that might be more appropriate. Especially since we have had many discussions about this already in the past (remember when mantic made their kickstarter? fun times)

Duncan_Idaho wrote:To be fair:
Those guys on BBG ranting were not the majority but the usual group of idiots.

Just follow their post history. Also they tried to find fault with the game wherever possible.

It went like this

> The game is a ruse since they do not show us all the rules
- Company goes into details why they can´t post the full text, but answer all the questions asked in detail.
> The game is still a ruse and we are entiteld to full rules, else it is a ruse
> Also the game is not finished according to their own words, so it must be a ruse.
- Only layout is not finished, game itself is already gold.
> It is still a ruse since we have to put together the miniatures, buy paints, etc.
- Minis are quite simple to put together, etc.
> It is still a ruse since their stretch goals are intended to get more money from us.
- Pay as much as you want, noone forces you to buy them and they are not necessary for the game.
> They are infringing IP of other people and cause of this it is a ruse.
- No it is an hommage which is quite standard in this industry and Joss and others at several instances have even encouraged folks to build hommages into their games.

And it goes on and on.
That´s not a different taste, but someone who wants to find fault no matter what.

I am working in the gaming industry on TT and board games and I would steer miles away from such guys since they are nothing but trouble.

Yes, I saw one of the main complainers call Sedition Wars "a way to push overpriced miniatures" once they ran out of other arguments. I wonder where they can do better than 100 miniatures for $100...

You guys are all very off topic, I think it would be better suited to discuss GW and their policies, practices and potential kickstarter uses elsewhere. This topic is for SEDITION WARS & STUDIO MCVEY!

Thanks. Don't take away from that.

IdentifyZero wrote:You guys are all very off topic, I think it would be better suited to discuss GW and their policies, practices and potential kickstarter uses elsewhere. This topic is for SEDITION WARS & STUDIO MCVEY!

Thanks. Don't take away from that.

Well the impact of this kickstarter seems to be rather topical to be honest. And if we don't start discussing things beyond the main game this thread will pretty much die now that the kickstarter is over.

Alpharius wrote:

TiB wrote:

silent25 wrote:I would consider this a textbook example of how to have a successful kickstarter.
1. Company has a established track record for good quality products.

I would be very sad though if kickstarter turned into just a way for established companies to launch a new product risk-free.
I like that every Joe Nobody could get funded as long as he has a good idea (and some basic presentation skills).

Kickstarter and many, many other most likely disagree with you.

Again, the beauty of crowdfunding is it is a truly 'Vote With Your Wallet" affair.

Actually Alpharius the organization ( a corporate think tank) that I belong too were in a long and careful discussion (yesterday, monthly meeting) about just what could happen concerning long and establish companies using kick starter. We all agreed that this will happen and reduce the effectiveness of the average person getting into the game . The question is when will this be a serious problem and that is still in debate. The other option of concern is some large corporation buys them out and we believe this could happen as well.

Other topics of discussion were this month was "Sociopaths in corporate society", "Spain and Portugal, the next Greece", and "Wizards of the Coasts on why is Magic the Gathering so successful, from a business, marketing, and public relations standpoint.

Being an old man does have it merits. One of them is being blessed and seeing the Renaissance (and being involved) in Rpg's, Video games, and Table top games, meeting the old guard when they were young pups, and making friends over the +40 years working career.

I hope McVey does well in his game as the oh so many others trying to put their dreams into reality. To me this is a 70's revival of independent thinking and new ideas of placing new product out there.

It is good to see this happen again.

brettz123 wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:You guys are all very off topic, I think it would be better suited to discuss GW and their policies, practices and potential kickstarter uses elsewhere. This topic is for SEDITION WARS & STUDIO MCVEY!

Thanks. Don't take away from that.

Well the impact of this kickstarter seems to be rather topical to be honest. And if we don't start discussing things beyond the main game this thread will pretty much die now that the kickstarter is over.

Agreed. Untuil we get updates or the product in our hands, then there is nothing to discuss strictly on topic. Here is as good as any place to keep relatively on topic discussions active.

If you think something is off topic, report it to the mods.


Edit: General discussion of Kickstarter can go in another thread, thanks.

Hellfury wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:You guys are all very off topic, I think it would be better suited to discuss GW and their policies, practices and potential kickstarter uses elsewhere. This topic is for SEDITION WARS & STUDIO MCVEY!

Thanks. Don't take away from that.

Well the impact of this kickstarter seems to be rather topical to be honest. And if we don't start discussing things beyond the main game this thread will pretty much die now that the kickstarter is over.

Agreed. Untuil we get updates or the product in our hands, then there is nothing to discuss strictly on topic. Here is as good as any place to keep relatively on topic discussions active.

If you think something is off topic, report it to the mods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Adam LongWalker wrote:Actually Alpharius the organization ( a corporate think tank) that I belong too were in a long and careful discussion (yesterday, monthly meeting) about just what could happen concerning long and establish companies using kick starter. We all agreed that this will happen and reduce the effectiveness of the average person getting into the game . The question is when will this be a serious problem and that is still in debate.

Agreed. As more and more big boys enter the picture, it takes away from the advertising advantage available from KS to their products. Basically, the main reason why KS was created to give smaller creative endeavors a chance to be advertised and funded.

I see nothing wrong with big boys going to KS other than that inherent problem though.

KS is kind of a socialist ideal, where big boys are the capitalist success stories taking advantage of that socialist ideal. Two separate philosophies colliding and trying to find the best way each can work together. Sort of.

I will say if you are a small fry and got got a great idea that you really think should be put out there, do it soon, before the big boys swallow all the attention and before consumers becomes jaded about KS.Because I think both of those are distinct possibilities.

I did, just like some very comedic individual reported me for making a joke a few days ago and got me banned for 48 hours. Most of you are veteran posters and know that the news & rumour topics are kept on track and often locked when people continue to discuss off-topic in them until new news has come up. Why are you flaunting the rules? I know some of you feel you can get away with it, but I've seen enough N&R topics locked after 1 off topic post that is related to the issue, when no news is available related to the post.

If you want to discuss capitalism, socialism, the inherent benefits and weaknesses of kickstarter and the social ramifications? Make a new topic. This isn't to discuss GW and how they could release specialist games. I know some of you dudes want to flex your intellectual 'muscle' in some kind of serious topic where you might have an audience, but come on, let's take this to a new topic and not take away from the discussion of Sedition Wars in this one.

This topic should be and as far as I know, is for the discussion of SEDITION WARS. We should continue to discuss that. Even though Kickstarter is related, the problems you guys are discussing deserve a separate topic. Use this one to discuss how awesome Sedition Wars is, how much you love the miniatures, what you are looking forward to about it.

Don't turn this topic into a capitalist vs socialist debate on the finer points of Kickstarter and ... well you get the picture. It's been off topic for two pages, if a mod doesn't address that, guess it doesn't matter if off topic is discussed in these posts.. just matters WHO discusses it.

It's been off topic for two pages, if a mod doesn't address that, guess it doesn't matter if off topic is discussed in these posts.. just matters WHO discusses it.

Or perhaps it might mean that it's a weekend, and the site is extra crazy with 6th edition news and nonsense, and the mods are busy. But thanks for your patience and consideration.

I've pruned some off topic stuff from the thread, and sent some of the longer posts to the owners via PM, so they can re-use in a new thread if desired.

I'm not sure if this was discussed at al, but all of these plastic figures for Sedition Wars, are we going to see them sold seperately outside of the board game context?

Judging by the concept art alone Studio McVey could make a killing just selling the figures, especially those suits (in plastic).....

Delephont wrote:I'm not sure if this was discussed at al, but all of these plastic figures for Sedition Wars, are we going to see them sold seperately outside of the board game context?

Judging by the concept art alone Studio McVey could make a killing just selling the figures, especially those suits (in plastic).....

A good amount of them are already for sale as resin sculpts from Studio McVey's website.

Delephont wrote:I'm not sure if this was discussed at al, but all of these plastic figures for Sedition Wars, are we going to see them sold seperately outside of the board game context?

Judging by the concept art alone Studio McVey could make a killing just selling the figures, especially those suits (in plastic).....

I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread by Mike himself that they do plan on selling them later.

Yeah, I think they are planning to do a lot more within the game universe. On the site it mentions other factions, expansions, etc. BfA is just the start, apparently.

yeah mikes said he's gona release them as box sets but dont hope to see anything un till early -mid next year

Delephont wrote:are we going to see them sold seperately outside of the board game context?

I'm not sure if this has been said (haven't read the entire thread) but I believe in the videos and on the page they are hinting that the boardgame is just the beginning, to test the waters maybe, and that when this proves a succes it could branch out into a full wargame.

Looks like we need to make it a bit more obvious. We've had multiple moderator warnings already, so I'm going to make this more prominent. Please keep the thread on-topic, and take the general discussion of Kickstarter and small or large companies to a new thread. -Mannahnin

Looks like we need to make it a bit more obvious. We've had multiple moderator warnings already, so I'm going to make this more prominent. Please keep the thread on-topic, and take the general discussion of Kickstarter and small or large companies to a new thread. -Mannahnin

I got curious and looked up Kickstarter's history---Sedition Wars is #8 all time in terms of money pledged/successful. Pretty impressive for miniatures and a board game!

How do you look that information up?

Moopy wrote:How do you look that information up?

I just went with Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickstarter

TiB wrote:

silent25 wrote:I would consider this a textbook example of how to have a successful kickstarter.
1. Company has a established track record for good quality products.

I would be very sad though if kickstarter turned into just a way for established companies to launch a new product risk-free.
I like that every Joe Nobody could get funded as long as he has a good idea (and some basic presentation skills).

Should quantify that first line, that it doesn't need to be commercially released product. Warploque Miniatures I see is another good example of decent Kickstarter. The sculptor had already an established track record as a talented amateur and has his sculpting blog on multiple miniature forums. People had a very good idea of what he was selling because he had already showed off a number of sculpts already. While not necessarily exciting, it was a good example of a talented amateur getting a feel for how many people would buy his product.

While it succeeded, I still think the Avatars of War Kickstarter/Inidegogo was a terribly handled one. No product displays beyond concept sketches, poor reception to ideas and feedback, and no real perceived value for committing to the product.

For Studio McVey, I hope we will see the greens/3D sculpts of the figures soon (next week or so). Curious to see how the extra characters turn out. The ones for Zombicide look decent so far so am optimistic these will follow suit.

Also, those complaints from the BGG, Sedition War is the equivalent of a big Hollywood blockbuster. People lining up to see it, but no reviews are out to say how good it is. People will hate it just because it is a big movie. We're working on the same line as "like the actors and director they have and have faith they will do a good job." And for those who complain 100 figs for $100 is a bad deal, yea those people are still working in the mindset of Toy's R Us games where Hasbro is able to put out a big game for $19.99. They don't pay attention to the fact those games have a print run of 100,000+ and thus miniscule production costs.

yeah,

BobbaFett wrote:I think that we are witnessing how a good idea can be completely transformed by the market into something not so good.

As someone has pointed out in this thread Kickstarter was created as a way for enthusiast beginners to reaise their projects but CoolMiniorNot is using it as a Pre-Order store for "launching a new product risk-free" and copying intellectual properties for making them more attractive.

This is like if tomorrow... WarnerBros. makes a Kickstarter to finance their next Batman movie pre-selling the tickets for summer of 2013 and seducing fanboys by telling them that if they put some extra money they will put the Avengers (or some shameless copy) in it.

I'm following some other projects in Kickstarter that seem to be legitimal projects, not already done products asking for pre-order. For Example, "Dark Potential" is a wargame that is really been made by this financial tool and you can follow the videos of how the project is growing.
There are also some guys goign to release a Dwarf army for their small company.
I mean... this is what the crowdfunding was made for.

Well, you know, that's just like uh...your opinion, man.

Some of us are just happy that people like Mike and Ali can push their idea through kick-starter faster utilising the fan base of a 'agent' like CMON.

Panic....

Let's try to stay on topic here guys!

It may mean this thread drops down the list for a few days, but I'm sure that there will be plenty of updates, previews, etc. that will push it right back up!

Please take this topic to a new thread. -Mannahnin

Looks like we need to make it a bit more obvious. We've had multiple moderator warnings already, so I'm going to make this more prominent. Please keep the thread on-topic, and take the general discussion of Kickstarter and small or large companies to a new thread. -Mannahnin

I think that we are witnessing how a good idea can be completely transformed by the market into something not so good.

As someone has pointed out in this thread Kickstarter was created as a way for enthusiast beginners to reaise their projects but CoolMiniorNot is using it as a Pre-Order store for "launching a new product risk-free" and copying intellectual properties for making them more attractive

You really should do some research before complaining. This product is the baby of UK-based Studio McVey that uses CMoN as its US-agent to be able to use Kickstarter and have an easier access to production means. Studio McVey is one of the little enthusiasts. He invested more than two years in fleshing out his idea and refining it. McVey still had doubts that the product would be well-received, so for him it still was a risk, cause he was also putting his reputation on the line. The same goes for CMoN. It is still a comparativly small company with just a few people. There is still a risk involved since art has to be commissioned, minis desgined and cast, people managing the kickstarter, etc. and this all costs money. They don´t make the whole thing up during the kickstarter. And there is a fine but still existant difference between a copy and a hommage. The hommages are only responsible for a relative small amount, the majority still comes from the original game IP and a lot of sweat, money and tears went into it.

@Level7
IMO the game is lacking at several levels,especially from a board gamers perspective. The mini-stands are way to huge and obscure the board. Some of the art is rather bland and uninspiring, the price is too high in comparison with products from other companies. And there are still some other issues like that it seems to add nothing new to this genre of games.... It would have been a nice product sometime back but these days it is too few, too late and too expensive.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:

I think that we are witnessing how a good idea can be completely transformed by the market into something not so good.

As someone has pointed out in this thread Kickstarter was created as a way for enthusiast beginners to reaise their projects but CoolMiniorNot is using it as a Pre-Order store for "launching a new product risk-free" and copying intellectual properties for making them more attractive

You really should do some research before complaining. This product is the baby of UK-based Studio McVey that uses CMoN as its US-agent to be able to use Kickstarter and have an easier access to production means. Studio McVey is one of the little enthusiasts. He invested more than two years in fleshing out his idea and refining it. McVey still had doubts that the product would be well-received, so for him it still was a risk, cause he was also putting his reputation on the line. The same goes for CMoN. It is still a comparativly small company with just a few people. There is still a risk involved since art has to be commissioned, minis desgined and cast, people managing the kickstarter, etc. and this all costs money. They don´t make the whole thing up during the kickstarter. And there is a fine but still existant difference between a copy and a hommage. The hommages are only responsible for a relative small amount, the majority still comes from the original game IP and a lot of sweat, money and tears went into it.

@Level7
IMO the game is lacking at several levels,especially from a board gamers perspective. The mini-stands are way to huge and obscure the board. Some of the art is rather bland and uninspiring, the price is too high in comparison with products from other companies. And there are still some other issues like that it seems to add nothing new to this genre of games.... It would have been a nice product sometime back but these days it is too few, too late and too expensive.

Very nicely put.

Looks like we need to make it a bit more obvious. We've had multiple moderator warnings already, so I'm going to make this more prominent. Please keep the thread on-topic, and take the general discussion of Kickstarter and small or large companies to a new thread. -Mannahnin