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Lord-Loss wrote:Lets lay off Drk_Oblit and let him explain himself a bit guys.

I'll open by saying I understand and support your shas'o vote, but what I don't get is the above.

Lay off Drk_O? He has three votes on him...Vulkan has four why are you trying to protect Drk_O now but had nothing to say about Vulkan when he was getting more votes faster then this? Also, why are you worried that Drk_O has three votes (oooh, only four more to lynch, he's so close to being dead) and what makes you feel like he hasn't had (or won't have) time to defend himself especially considering how wimpy shas' vote on Drk_O is?

I just think we should let him explain himself before anyone else casts a vote on him. It can snowball easily and turn into a bandwagon, we don't want that. I understand he's far away from an lynch

Why did you not feel this way about Vulkan?

Vulkan had a chance to be involved, I asked him personally what his thoughts were on several of the current, or previously suspicous characters in the game but he failed to give a proper, well thought out response.

I would say that Dark_O has had the same opportunities, but has just waffled.

I am, I admit, tempted to rejoin the Shas vote now, but I can't flip back-and-forth endlessly or Gornall's head will explode trying to keep track of it all.

Shas, don't think you are off the hook with me, that is all.

Lord-Loss wrote:I think we should stop the votes for Vulkan and wait for him to explain himself, or play a more active role.

Okay, I went back and looked and I'd forgotten this from LL. That makes his defense of Drk_O here appear less scummy to my eyes (and I really do need a few more players to manage to do this). I disagree with his method of decrying any movement towards consensus but will at least admit I was incorrect in thinking he was being more defensive of Drk_O then he had been of Vulkan. In any case this does appear to be a general pattern of LL's attitude towards any wagon movement as opposed to a specific read I can infer on his attitude towards Drk_O/Vulkan.

Lord-Loss - for the record, I do disagree that Drk_O has had a lack of time to express his beliefs and thoughts in this thread. Also, with basically a week left we *should* be seeing more movement towards a lynch. There's no explicit need to go to deadline every Day Phase if we think we've found scum. Arheiner has admitted he'll be checked out, and I personally don't expect the other recalcitrant posters to suddenly have an epiphany about why talking is helpful to town. Therefore, I would be content to have a lynch within the next few real-life days so we can assess that information.

Do you have any direct feelings for or against the Drk-O wagon? Would you put Drk_O in the top half of your suspect list of being scum?

I honestly can't understand why Drk_Oblit seems to be scummy. Is it because he wasn't scum hunting? He wasn't being sensible and posting strange?

He seems to be posting sensible, scum hunting stuff since his first post and Styniers pressure.

Could you show me some quotes that make Drk_Oblit suspicous?

It is difficult to point out a single post to explain my scummy read of Drk_O so please bear with me on this.

Drk_O's first posts were basically a lot of 'here I am and I am active' without actually offering any opinions on anyone or their actions (and by this point we had the BishopGore/Vulkan thing going on which was well worth weighing in on).

I request him to provide opinions. Brother Stynier agrees with me and puts pressure on him as well to provide content and not his usual joking distractions. Drk_O responds;

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:I feel Drk_O will do what he usually does, cloud the discussion with a high level of comments that mean absolutely nothing. So from your statement about comments with out content assisting the 'stealers, if he's a loyalist his death will assist us in another manner. It will cut the amount of clutter the genestealers will be able to hide in.

Absolutely nothing? I'm not sure what to tell you, most of what I say means something. Maybe you don't see it, maybe I'm not clear enough. I'm not sure. I'll try and focus more. I want to be more help...

Congratulations Drk_O you just responded to a request for opinions by saying you provide opinions without actually providing any opinions. He's also promising help (Yeah guys, I'll do some really good scumhunting...just not right now).

I call him on this and point out my issues with his post above.

He posts this (link will include my commentary against him as he quotes it)

He's "unaware" he wasn't offering opinions on other players? I don't buy that, Drk_O may be difficult to read but he's a poltroon by choice not because he's stupid. That set off my scumdar a bit because clearly he's aware and he's trying to play some sort of "aw, shucks, I'm a newbie sorta guy and didn't realize I wasn't helping" card. Moving on from this he then goes into a lengthy spate of offering his opinions...and what are these opinions?

1. He supports n0t_u's vote on BishopGore (n0t_u had voted based off an RVS joke reason of calling BG a Slaanesh worshiper. He had already admitted this and that his reasoning was not to be taken seriously but here's Drk_O taking it seriously).

2. That BishopGore is more likely a Night Lords Aspirant then a Genestealer (!?!) First off he can't even know if there is one (unless Drk_O is that one and this is a cover attempt) or this is just more random hot air blasted at BG in an attempt to look involved and scumhunting.

3. N0t_u is either the Inquisitor, a Genestealer, or the Night Lord (again with the Night Lord thing and also - wow, he narrowed n0t_u down a *lot* right there. That isn't an opinion, that is a list of every possibility that is out there).

4. He is getting "vibes" from Vulkan but basically says he thinks they're town vibes (y'know, Vulkan, the guy Drk_O is trying to help lynch right now)

5. He is getting "vibes" from Stynier (doesn't say what they are) and that he respects him. (aka I respect you dude, please leave me alone!)

6. Unvotes Thor (aka - please stop pressuring me, look, I stopped voting you, leave me alone!)

I pressure him yet again to offer opinions.

He manages this post which, if you look at the end, again offers up the "hey, I'll scumhunt lots...just not right now, please be patient with me" commentary yet again. By this point I feel he's by far the scummiest looking player and have been campaigning for him solidly since then.

======================================

@Lord-Loss - As a reverse of your question. You have stated that you feel Drk_O is posting sensible scumhunting ever since his first post and Stynier's pressure (two different points in time in my mind, but whatever). Could you please show me this sensible scumhunting that clears him in your mind?

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

Thor665 wrote:

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Absolutely nothing? I'm not sure what to tell you, most of what I say means something. Maybe you don't see it, maybe I'm not clear enough. I'm not sure. I'll try and focus more. I want to be more help...

As I noted earlier - there is a difference between a post and a post with content. Your post here is a great example.

You have lots of discussion, are responding to a few posters, and are working hard at looking helpful and having a general dialogue about the flow of the game.

However, when someone actually looks at the post what do they see? Is there any information in there that is relevant to the game discussion? Do I know your attitude towards any of the other players better now then I did before? Did you make a case against anyone, or discuss anything that looked scummy or townish to you? Did you offer a plan or concept that will help town find scum or discern a better voting strategy?

You have posted a post that suggests activity without actually giving away any reads or doing anything that will generate game related content. Each post you make ought to at least be answering/questioning/analyzing/pressuring one of the players/actions in the game in order for it to help us find scum. (of course if you can come up with something that is not on that list and showcase how it helps find scum I am good with that too - but if you're not helping town find scum then you are more likely to be scum yourself, or a player who is not helping his team)

I am happier with my Drk_O vote now, if anyone is not happy with their vote we could do with another 1-2 over here. If you disagree with me calling Drk_O for this or find another player more scummy then say so and explain why

I was actually unaware I wasn't doing any of those things you listed. I do like to think that I offer my opinnion, which could shed some light on someone that someone may not have had. I did also ask Vulkan why he didn't explain why he didn't vote for Bishop, so I'm not %100 pointless

I'll have to let you know though, while I appreciate you helping me just now, I completely disagree with you calling on me. You're continuing to vote for me because you beleive I wasn't helping. While it's deffinately true, I think you're voting for me because you think I have/was doing it on purpose. I didn't realise I wasn't actually helping until now.

However, I'm going to Unvote: Thor665, because an eye for an eye, and you gave me my over one back.

I'll go over what I think about who I find suspicious so far :

Bishop, as MR INQUISITOR so elegantly pointed out, has shown evidence of Slanesh worship. However, I remember someone had almost died from talking about a certain ab-human in their first post. So, I would think I should let it slide. However, Gornall did say

Gornall wrote:There may also be a "loose cannon" role of Assassin and/or Night Lord... or there may not. Basically, you cannot assume anything.

The very moment you're told not to assume anything, you can always assume that it's true. So it may be that if there would be a Night Lords Assailant, that it may indeed be Bishop who could be a NLA. Only time will tell.

n0t_u (hereby refered to as MR INQUISITOR) There are three possibilities.
1. He is an Inquisitor, (and deserves the nick name I have given him) trying to proove there is no good time to say "Hey, I am the Inquisitor"
2. He is a Genestealer, hoping that there is no Inquisitor, meaning that there would be a Psyker who will now protect him every NightPhase from Bish-- I mean a NLA
3. He is the NLA, hoping for the same thing as my second outlined possibilty, and also to put some fear in the Genestealers.

I'm getting vibes from Vulkan, but they're the normal vibes I get from Vulkan. Easily frustrated, possibly disinterested in the game. I'm probibly wrong, but I know what my spidey sense is telling me.

I'm also getting Vibes from Stynier, but it's probibly just a knee jerk reaction. Easily ignored for now, because I respect what he was getting at.

I'm not sure I should vote for anyone at the moment, I need to think things over.

He seems fairly clear here, he states his opinion about certain scenario's and told us of the certain feelings he gets from players.

You actually posted the exact post I linked to where I was ripping him apart for his "scumhunting"

Could you please go and reference my post and explain to me how I'm wrong on how I'm breaking down his efforts in this post?

Okay like Thor has said, we've got a week to decide on someone. I' deciding that I'm gonna go back to Drk_O, looking back over his posts only strengthens my belief that he is either the genestealer or some other anti-town role.

EDIT Forgot my vote, how silly of me.


VOTE: Drk_O

Current Vote Count:

0- Thor
0- DDRE
0- Lord-Loss
1- Fifty...................(Arheiner)
4- Vulkan_Hestan....(Dark_O, DDRE, Not_U, BishopGore)
0- Arheiner
0- BishopGore
0- Brother Stynier
4- Drk_Oblit............(Thor, Fifty, Shas'O, Brother Stynier)
0- Shas O'vera........(Lord Loss)
0- Ferret
1- Not U.................(Vulkan)

With 12 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

I think you're twisting some of Drk_O's words from his posts Thor. He says I'm acting wacky and random (which I was) and that those are the hallmarks of the NLA in-game. However he's not accusing me, he's trying to get people thinking.

Talking of vibes is not helpful, but on Day 1, with all the Random that floats around you often have to go from vibes, because you've read lots of posts and you start to form opinions, not ones that you want to go back and search through all the posts for quotes of, but opinions none the less.

I believe that following the death of Mekboy, Vulkan's playstyle changed. He started to care a little more about his character, offering up opinions, badly thought out and phrased as they were

I believe a lynch of Vulkan will reveal as much as a lynch on Drk_O.

Does that mean you think they are both guilty or both innocent? Or does that mean you're watching the reactions of a specific person and you can guess how they will react?

Thor665 wrote:
I request him to provide opinions. Brother Stynier agrees with me and puts pressure on him as well to provide content and not his usual joking distractions. Drk_O responds;

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:I feel Drk_O will do what he usually does, cloud the discussion with a high level of comments that mean absolutely nothing. So from your statement about comments with out content assisting the 'stealers, if he's a loyalist his death will assist us in another manner. It will cut the amount of clutter the genestealers will be able to hide in.

Absolutely nothing? I'm not sure what to tell you, most of what I say means something. Maybe you don't see it, maybe I'm not clear enough. I'm not sure. I'll try and focus more. I want to be more help...

Congratulations Drk_O you just responded to a request for opinions by saying you provide opinions without actually providing any opinions. He's also promising help (Yeah guys, I'll do some really good scumhunting...just not right now).

I thought it was meant in general, like my playstyle or something.

I call him on this and point out my issues with his post above.

He posts this (link will include my commentary against him as he quotes it)

He's "unaware" he wasn't offering opinions on other players? I don't buy that, Drk_O may be difficult to read but he's a poltroon by choice not because he's stupid. That set off my scumdar a bit because clearly he's aware and he's trying to play some sort of "aw, shucks, I'm a newbie sorta guy and didn't realize I wasn't helping" card.

That's not what I was trying to say at all.
I thought I was doing ok
I was told early on in the game that I really wasn't by both you and Styner
I was all like "Ohh? You sure? I thought I was though.."

I don't really think through what I say, and pretty much assume it's useful. So it was more of a "Ohh, thats what I was doing?"

Moving on from this he then goes into a lengthy spate of offering his opinions...and what are these opinions?


4. He is getting "vibes" from Vulkan but basically says he thinks they're town vibes (y'know, Vulkan, the guy Drk_O is trying to help lynch right now)

I'm voting for Vulkan, because I don't feel he's going to be helpful in the long run. He's barely doing anything now.

5. He is getting "vibes" from Stynier (doesn't say what they are) and that he respects him. (aka I respect you dude, please leave me alone!)

I explained that they weren't very strong vibes, and I put them to a reflex, and decided to ignore them.

6. Unvotes Thor (aka - please stop pressuring me, look, I stopped voting you, leave me alone!)

I undid my RVS vote, because I'm was 80% sure you're town.

BishopGore wrote:I think you're twisting some of Drk_O's words from his posts Thor. He says I'm acting wacky and random (which I was) and that those are the hallmarks of the NLA in-game. However he's not accusing me, he's trying to get people thinking.

NLAs do X
BishopGore does X
Do you guys think because of X BishopGore is a NLA?

That looks like an accusation to me whether or not you think it gets conversation going. It's also a very weird accusation - as I have noted - since there is no evidence to suggest we even have a NLA at this point nor is there evidence to suggest the NLA acts 'wacky'. Why would Drk_O accuse you of being a NLA instead of a Genestealer? That's really the focused point I want you to consider. Do you think he legitimately believes that those with the NLA role act 'wacky' while Genestealers do not? Or do you think he is making NLA accusations because he has inside knowledge of the presence of a NLA?

I believe a lynch of Vulkan will reveal as much as a lynch on Drk_O.

Other then your own interactions with Vulkan (which came before Mekboy's death) I don't think there's a lot coming from that lynch. What do you see as the best piece of information it is likely to provide us?

No one else apart from Fifty supports a Shas'O lynch? He hasn't been scum hunting, aswell as being pretty scummy.

Lord-Loss wrote:No one else apart from Fifty supports a Shas'O lynch? He hasn't been scum hunting, aswell as being pretty scummy.

You missed my question to you above (immediately after your last post)

I agree with you that shas hasn't been scumhunting. My personal read is a bit more of "townie who doesn't know how to scumhunt" then "scum who is intentionally being unhelpful"
I don't recall him doing anything I would specifically call 'scummy' thus far - what's twigged you on him?

Thor665 wrote:1. He supports n0t_u's vote on BishopGore (n0t_u had voted based off an RVS joke reason of calling BG a Slaanesh worshiper. He had already admitted this and that his reasoning was not to be taken seriously but here's Drk_O taking it seriously).

2. That BishopGore is more likely a Night Lords Aspirant then a Genestealer (!?!) First off he can't even know if there is one (unless Drk_O is that one and this is a cover attempt) or this is just more random hot air blasted at BG in an attempt to look involved and scumhunting.

3. N0t_u is either the Inquisitor, a Genestealer, or the Night Lord (again with the Night Lord thing and also - wow, he narrowed n0t_u down a *lot* right there. That isn't an opinion, that is a list of every possibility that is out there).

4. He is getting "vibes" from Vulkan but basically says he thinks they're town vibes (y'know, Vulkan, the guy Drk_O is trying to help lynch right now)

5. He is getting "vibes" from Stynier (doesn't say what they are) and that he respects him. (aka I respect you dude, please leave me alone!)

6. Unvotes Thor (aka - please stop pressuring me, look, I stopped voting you, leave me alone!)

1. I guess that's pretty suspicous, but he is still scum hunting, but looking pretty scummy while doing it.

2. I think Drk_Oblit was reading too much into BG saying "I like to be the only player to know" thing, or whatever he said. ()

3. Well I very much doubt N0t_u is a townie pretending to be an Inqusitior.

4. He could have changed his mind on Vulkan, just a possibilty here, I don't know.

5. I got no idea.

6. Was a RVS vote, not sure how to take of him responding to your RVS vote with a vote though..

Lord-Loss wrote:1. I guess that's pretty suspicous, but he is still scum hunting, but looking pretty scummy while doing it.

I've got some personal disagreements with how you're reading my reads, but since I don't think you're scum at the moment there's no reason to dwell on them and really this is the important one. You asked me why I thought he was scummy, and here you're admitting you can see him as "pretty scummy." Done deal. You don't need to agree with every one of my reads if you can see that. I do disagree that he has been offering helpful scumhunting as well, but clearly our reads on that are opposite and I doubt we'll be convincing the other one anytime soon.

What is it you see as the scummiest thing shas has done?

@ARHEINER - (presuming you have internets) what is the scummiest thing Fifty has done?

@VULKAN - your vote on n0t_u is terrible, please move it.

It looks like the option is a Vulkan or Drk_O lynch. If Lord-Loss comes up with something interesting I could entertain the shas lynch, but at the moment am against it because my read there is just a newbie player. The worst thing I see against Vulkan is that "mood shift" that BishopGore has been talking about, which isn't a totally unreasonable scum tell but I do believe that someone said the same thing about shas...

@BISHOPGORE - how do you see Vulkan's "shift" in playing style after Mekboy's death to be different then shas' "shift" after the same?

unvote:not_u
forgot about that one

Vulkan would you perhaps care to explain your unvote a little more? I seriously hope you weren't still voting for Not_U because you had forgotten you had voted in the first place. Would you also care to perhaps explain in more detail whom you find suspicious?

Edited to add punctuation.

I think either Drk_O or Vulkan COULD be genestealers. Of the two it is more likely statistically that Drk_O is a genestealer than Vulkan is, but I believe Vulkan's change in play style is more to work from than Drk_O's comments. Vulkan was almost definitely not a genestealer when the game started, going from what I saw of his post edit, hence why I say statistically it is less likely that he was randomly chosen after Mekboy's death than before (2/13 at game start vs 1/8 or 1/9 from the pro-towners who could be elevated to genestealer role).

Thor, I agree that Shas'O and Vulkan changed at the same time, but Shas'O quickly lost interest again (he posted for a few hours then went to play in the daisies again) whilst Vulkan has kept up at least a shaky presence here. Maybe Shas'O did come back because he was given an anti-town role and nobody was paying attention to him so he got bored, but maybe it was just bad timing on his part to get interested then.

Looking at the post again, as you point out, it is quite accusatory. I guess I can see that this is a bit suspicious, like trying to hide an attack on me behind the thoughts about potential other roles in the game because I was receiving so much heat at the time.

Every post by Vulkan has some new and interesting comment to muse over. It's almost educational.

may i ask, what exactly leads you to believe that i have an anti-town role in all this? for all you know i could be the inquisitor or another one of those type of roles.

shas'o vera wrote:may i ask, what exactly leads you to believe that i have an anti-town role in all this? for all you know i could be the inquisitor or another one of those type of roles.

Oh dear gawd, sir.

If you are one of those roles - why would you reveal it this way?
If you are not one of those roles why would you try to suggest to the other town players that you are?

@Lord-Loss - I retract my request for you to point out something scummy that shas has done. I'll simply re-word it to a request of what scummy thing you think he's done prior to his last post

Thor665 wrote:

shas'o vera wrote:may i ask, what exactly leads you to believe that i have an anti-town role in all this? for all you know i could be the inquisitor or another one of those type of roles.

Oh dear gawd, sir.

If you are one of those roles - why would you reveal it this way?
If you are not one of those roles why would you try to suggest to the other town players that you are?

I'm not sure he was suggesting he was any such role. I think he meant you can never be sure who you are suspecting due to the anonymous nature of the game.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:I'm not sure he was suggesting he was any such role. I think he meant you can never be sure who you are suspecting due to the anonymous nature of the game.

If he wasn't claiming a power role (and ye gawds I would prefer that) then...well...he has brilliantly established that he could be a power role, scum, or town. Whoop-de-dah, he has just described every player here.

I'll also note he apparently posted that in response to BishopGore...who was actually kinda defending him (and at the very least was certainly not attacking him, BG was attacking Vulkan). I'll also note again that I asked him why he was saying what he was saying and now I have you answering for him....why did you answer for him, are you that sure of your read of his actions?

Thor665 wrote:

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:I'm not sure he was suggesting he was any such role. I think he meant you can never be sure who you are suspecting due to the anonymous nature of the game.

If he wasn't claiming a power role (and ye gawds I would prefer that) then...well...he has brilliantly established that he could be a power role, scum, or town. Whoop-de-dah, he has just described every player here.

I'll also note he apparently posted that in response to BishopGore...who was actually kinda defending him (and at the very least was certainly not attacking him, BG was attacking Vulkan). I'll also note again that I asked him why he was saying what he was saying and now I have you answering for him....why did you answer for him, are you that sure of your read of his actions?

I was when I said so. I remember saying something similar in a previous game, (I think it was in Game 2) which I meant this. Although, I did say it to cast abit of doubt...

I wonder what makes either more guilty than the other. As the only person not with a vote down at last tally... What makes either team Edward or Jacob .... I mean Dark_O or Vulkan think that their suspicion is more valid than the other. Not why you think he's guilty, but why he's MORE guilty. (The prior joke is not meant to offend.)

the_ferrett wrote:What makes either team Edward or Jacob .... I mean Dark_O or Vulkan think that their suspicion is more valid than the other. Not why you think he's guilty, but why he's MORE guilty. (The prior joke is not meant to offend.)

In the final analysis - gut. Both sides have presented their cases and both cases are not horribly bad, but I don't like the logic of the Vulkan case and my gut says to suspect Drk_O (of course it always says that). I'm also now curious about Drk_O's minor defense towards shas'o which only reaffirms me in my selected course.

What's your gut say? Why are you holding back on your vote right now?