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I'd rather like to see a Ghazzy assault, now. But I'm rather bad at Mathammer, so I'm unable to do it myself.


However, I'd like to see the difference a Waaagh!! banner in Ghazzy's retinue, as well as Ghazzy getting the charge, would make on that. Lets just assume the two retinues are busy fighting each other and are leaving the big boys to duke it out between themselves

Jesus, what are you talking about? you need to read the rules. The hitting chart is different from the wounding chart which it seems is where you're getting those to hit rolls from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
my coment is referring to the epic fail mathhammer post

Sorry about the MH fail, I play Tau and so dont ever need to assault.

Anvildude wrote:I'd rather like to see a Ghazzy assault, now. But I'm rather bad at Mathammer, so I'm unable to do it myself.


However, I'd like to see the difference a Waaagh!! banner in Ghazzy's retinue, as well as Ghazzy getting the charge, would make on that. Lets just assume the two retinues are busy fighting each other and are leaving the big boys to duke it out between themselves

Keep in mind that Ghazghkull doesn't benefit from the Waaaugh! banner with any unit, nor does he get a retinue.

Ghazghkull needs a 4+ to hit anything with a weapon skill higher than him. You need double+1 to need 5+, and at WS6, he would need an opponent who is WS13.

Generally speaking, Ghazghkull is going to hit on 3+, sometimes 4+, and always wound on a 2+ with his STR10 powerklaw.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Anvildude wrote:I'd rather like to see a Ghazzy assault, now. But I'm rather bad at Mathammer, so I'm unable to do it myself.


However, I'd like to see the difference a Waaagh!! banner in Ghazzy's retinue, as well as Ghazzy getting the charge, would make on that. Lets just assume the two retinues are busy fighting each other and are leaving the big boys to duke it out between themselves

Keep in mind that Ghazghkull doesn't benefit from the Waaaugh! banner with any unit, nor does he get a retinue.

Ghazghkull needs a 4+ to hit anything with a weapon skill higher than him. You need double+1 to need 5+, and at WS6, he would need an opponent who is WS13.

Generally speaking, Ghazghkull is going to hit on 3+, sometimes 4+, and always wound on a 2+ with his STR10 powerklaw.

Except against T7 MC...

He wouldn't get +1 ws from a nob's waaah banner?

im2randomghgh wrote:


GD of Khorne vs. Ghazzy v1.0

GD assaulting.

GD turn 1: six attacks. WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 wounds.
MC pens armour automatically.
5+ cybork inv. save (I think it`s inv. anyways)
3 wounds.

Ghazzy has 1 wound left at the end of GD turn one.

Ghazzy Turn one: WS6 vs. WS 10=6 to hit
If he`s lucky, one hit.
Str 10 VS. T6=2+ to wound.
1 wound.
4++ save
50% chance for one wound.

GD turn 2: repeat until combat finished.

End result: GD wound-either 1 or 0.
Ghazzy wounds: 5

Please don`t post until I have finished all my mathhammer posts


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GD of Khorne vs. Ghazzy v1.0.5

GD Assaulting

GD turn 1: six attacks. WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 wounds.
MC pens armour automatically.
5+ cybork inv. save (I think it`s inv. anyways)
3 wounds.

Ghazzy turn 1: activated prophet of the Waaagh!
WS6 vs. WS 10=6 to hit
If he`s lucky, one hit.
Str 10 VS. T6=2+ to wound.
1 wound.
4++ save
50% chance for one wound.

GD Turn 2:
WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 or 4 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 or 3 wounds.
2++ inv. save.
More than 50% chance of final wound (I know, lame MH)

Combat to GD again.

Yes, if you check the "To hit" chart, it's either 3+ or 4+, never 2+ unless you have fancy rules saying that.


So, Ghazzy's at WS6, GD at WS10? That's a 3+ for the GD to hit, Ghazzy hits back on a 4+.

So, say Ghazzy gets the charge off, better yet, with his Waaagh!!.

Ghazzy attacks at Init 1, so GD first.

GD: 6 attacks at WS10, 3+ to hit. That's a 2/3 chance, so 4 hits.

I'm guessing Str 6 if he's not charging, so Str 6 (GD) vs. T5 (Ghaz), hits on 3+, that's 2/3 of them wound. 2.6 wounds.

2++ save with Ghazzy's PotW charge, means saving 1/6 of them, =.44 successful wounds. That's a good chance of no wounds, first turn, with Ghazzy charging PotW.

Ghazzy attacks back, WS6 to WS10, 7 attacks on the charge (adamantium skull, Ghaz gets an extra attack on the charge), hits on 4+. 3.5 hits.

Str10 (Ghaz) vs. T6, wounds on 2+, so 5/6 of them wound, that's 2.91 wounds.

4++ save, that's 2/3 taken, that's 1.45 wounds in the end.

Next assault phase, Ghazzy still has PotW, but not the extra 2 attacks, so 2.5 hit, 2.01 wound, half are saved, that's 1 wound that Ghazzy does to the GD, GD still only does .44

Oh, and is the GD Fearless? If so, he's been taking Fearless wounds.

Any subsequent turns, Ghazzy does 1 wound, GD does (without Ghazzy's 2++,) 1.7. So by the end of it, Ghazzy would win, but only by a slim margin, having taken 3 of his 4 wounds (unless they're taking Fearless wounds, which I don't even know how that would work out.)

On the turn the GD charged, W/out PotW active (for whatever reason,) GD would do 4.6 hits, Str7 vs T5 = 2+ to wound, so 3.8 wounds, 5++ save, so 1/3 saved, 2.5 wounds done.

If Ghazzy had PotW, only .63 wounds done to him.

All in all, fairly even. A good Ork player probably wouldn't assault a GD without the Waaagh!!, so would probably win with the 2++. If the GD assaulted, it'd probably win. Of course, that's keeping retinues with things like Waaagh!! banners out of it...

bagtagger wrote:He wouldn't get +1 ws from a nob's waaah banner?

No. Re-examine the IC rules in the main rulebook.

People where i come from always give the IC the extra ws and fnp from the group of nobz they roll with, I will check it over

A painboy definitely gives attached ICs FNP. Why wouldn't a Waagh! Banner give them +1 WS?

Anvildude wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:


GD of Khorne vs. Ghazzy v1.0

GD assaulting.

GD turn 1: six attacks. WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 wounds.
MC pens armour automatically.
5+ cybork inv. save (I think it`s inv. anyways)
3 wounds.

Ghazzy has 1 wound left at the end of GD turn one.

Ghazzy Turn one: WS6 vs. WS 10=6 to hit
If he`s lucky, one hit.
Str 10 VS. T6=2+ to wound.
1 wound.
4++ save
50% chance for one wound.

GD turn 2: repeat until combat finished.

End result: GD wound-either 1 or 0.
Ghazzy wounds: 5

Please don`t post until I have finished all my mathhammer posts


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GD of Khorne vs. Ghazzy v1.0.5

GD Assaulting

GD turn 1: six attacks. WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 wounds.
MC pens armour automatically.
5+ cybork inv. save (I think it`s inv. anyways)
3 wounds.

Ghazzy turn 1: activated prophet of the Waaagh!
WS6 vs. WS 10=6 to hit
If he`s lucky, one hit.
Str 10 VS. T6=2+ to wound.
1 wound.
4++ save
50% chance for one wound.

GD Turn 2:
WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 or 4 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 or 3 wounds.
2++ inv. save.
More than 50% chance of final wound (I know, lame MH)

Combat to GD again.

Yes, if you check the "To hit" chart, it's either 3+ or 4+, never 2+ unless you have fancy rules saying that.


So, Ghazzy's at WS6, GD at WS10? That's a 3+ for the GD to hit, Ghazzy hits back on a 4+.

So, say Ghazzy gets the charge off, better yet, with his Waaagh!!.

Ghazzy attacks at Init 1, so GD first.

GD: 6 attacks at WS10, 3+ to hit. That's a 2/3 chance, so 4 hits.

I'm guessing Str 6 if he's not charging, so Str 6 (GD) vs. T5 (Ghaz), hits on 3+, that's 2/3 of them wound. 2.6 wounds.

2++ save with Ghazzy's PotW charge, means saving 1/6 of them, =.44 successful wounds. That's a good chance of no wounds, first turn, with Ghazzy charging PotW.

Ghazzy attacks back, WS6 to WS10, 7 attacks on the charge (adamantium skull, Ghaz gets an extra attack on the charge), hits on 4+. 3.5 hits.

Str10 (Ghaz) vs. T6, wounds on 2+, so 5/6 of them wound, that's 2.91 wounds.

4++ save, that's 2/3 taken, that's 1.45 wounds in the end.

Next assault phase, Ghazzy still has PotW, but not the extra 2 attacks, so 2.5 hit, 2.01 wound, half are saved, that's 1 wound that Ghazzy does to the GD, GD still only does .44

Oh, and is the GD Fearless? If so, he's been taking Fearless wounds.

Any subsequent turns, Ghazzy does 1 wound, GD does (without Ghazzy's 2++,) 1.7. So by the end of it, Ghazzy would win, but only by a slim margin, having taken 3 of his 4 wounds (unless they're taking Fearless wounds, which I don't even know how that would work out.)

On the turn the GD charged, W/out PotW active (for whatever reason,) GD would do 4.6 hits, Str7 vs T5 = 2+ to wound, so 3.8 wounds, 5++ save, so 1/3 saved, 2.5 wounds done.

If Ghazzy had PotW, only .63 wounds done to him.

All in all, fairly even. A good Ork player probably wouldn't assault a GD without the Waaagh!!, so would probably win with the 2++. If the GD assaulted, it'd probably win. Of course, that's keeping retinues with things like Waaagh!! banners out of it...

You got the Str wrong on the first part of your mathhammer, bringing the GD wounds against PotW Ghazzy to about .5

Just sayin'

A'key, then. Was going off random's 6 attacks when assaulting GD up there.

im2randomghgh wrote: Except against T7 MC...

Good god im2randomghgh... Can you suck at mathhammer any harder? T7 Does Nothing Against S10. S10 wounds even C'tan and wraithlords on 2s. Since there is no T9+ creatures in a normal game of 40k, ghaz will always wound on 2s. You don't know the assault rules, charts, or anything involving the units in question, yet you feel the need to contribute your lack of knowledge? Why do you do this? Trolling?

BeRzErKeR wrote:A painboy definitely gives attached ICs FNP. Why wouldn't a Waagh! Banner give them +1 WS?

Negative to both.

Independent characters do not benefit from the rules of the unit that they join.

Dashofpepper wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:A painboy definitely gives attached ICs FNP. Why wouldn't a Waagh! Banner give them +1 WS?

Negative to both.

Independent characters do not benefit from the rules of the unit that they join.

I haven't seen this arguement in awhile, its been in YMTC quite a few times IIRC. There is a rather compelling counter argument allowing the FNP, but honestly, who cares if the warboss gets it? In shooting his purpose is to soak S8-9 hits (so you don't instant gib nobs) and ghaz can even soak S10 due to his hard head. In CC, characters can be singled out, but in most cases anyone directing attacks at the warboss is probably packing a weapon that ignnores armor anyways.

The WS can sometimes matter, but if you are running your WB and nobs into a unit that has WS higher than you, and it really matters, you probably should learn the shoot the choppy ones, and chop the shooty ones.

Wow, the amount of errors in your example could kill Ghazzy during his Waagh!

Jidmah wrote:Wow, the amount of errors in your example could kill Ghazzy during his Waagh!

Quoted for Truth !

Tyrgon; killed my Ghaz no problem and had 2W left!

With a big gun. Or four. That's what i usually do, 4 hammerhead solid shots, S10 AP1. He won't last 3 turns... Hopefully...

At every store I have played they ruled that IC's in the nob squad get both fnp and the +1 ws. I see you're point dash but that's just how it's played in the NE so i just have to live with it.

What if I gave someone with Terminator armour a vortex grenade and someone else a legion relic, threw the grenade at him then charged at him with legion relic guy (when the vortex moves of course)

Sledgio wrote:With a big gun. Or four. That's what i usually do, 4 hammerhead solid shots, S10 AP1. He won't last 3 turns... Hopefully...

Broadsides would be better for that, considering they have TL, can get TA for +1 BS, and you can field more. Plus they're cheaper (points wise).

rubicant99 wrote:Tyrgon; killed my Ghaz no problem and had 2W left!

best way to kill a trygon for orks (i play nids alot) is to throw 30 boys at it and a nob with a pk when it is within 12 inches move towards it, shoot and then assault, usually you bog down a whole turn in the assault, but the boys have always come out on top, i've even taken oue down with 11 boys and a nob (boys had cybork thank god for mad doc)

im2randomghgh wrote:

Sledgio wrote:With a big gun. Or four. That's what i usually do, 4 hammerhead solid shots, S10 AP1. He won't last 3 turns... Hopefully...

Broadsides would be better for that, considering they have TL, can get TA for +1 BS, and you can field more. Plus they're cheaper (points wise).

Finally you said something I agree with. Broadsides would be better for downing Ghaz. Not to mention they would most likely be the ones smoking his transport as well. Problem is, if I were playing against Tau, in this situation, those Broadsides would have some deffkoptas in their faces asap. Or Lootas blasting away

bagtagger wrote:At every store I have played they ruled that IC's in the nob squad get both fnp and the +1 ws. I see you're point dash but that's just how it's played in the NE so i just have to live with it.

Indeed, and once upon a time I played it like that as well - until I learned that it wasn't correct. If you just play with your friends, and they don't care...that's fine. But if you intend to ever participate in organized 40k events, you won't be doing yourself any favors by using made up rules that won't fly there.

@notabot: Every time I see this come up in YMTC, its settled quite firmly with plenty of explanation from the rules. There is a compelling argument to why "Ambush" is not a unit special rule, so may be used on ICs though.

Sorry if I'm being dumb but what is the consensus; does the IC gain FNP and +1 WS or not?

rubicant99 wrote:Sorry if I'm being dumb but what is the consensus; does the IC gain FNP and +1 WS or not?

You may want to consult YMDC - do a search for any of the threads that have come up about it. But no....the main rulebook is quite explicitly clear that the ICs do *not* benefit from unit FNP and +WS - or anything else.

Dashofpepper wrote:

bagtagger wrote:At every store I have played they ruled that IC's in the nob squad get both fnp and the +1 ws. I see you're point dash but that's just how it's played in the NE so i just have to live with it.

Indeed, and once upon a time I played it like that as well - until I learned that it wasn't correct. If you just play with your friends, and they don't care...that's fine. But if you intend to ever participate in organized 40k events, you won't be doing yourself any favors by using made up rules that won't fly there.

@notabot: Every time I see this come up in YMTC, its settled quite firmly with plenty of explanation from the rules. There is a compelling argument to why "Ambush" is not a unit special rule, so may be used on ICs though.

^this yep no fnp on ic or warbanner

but i have lots of fun ambushign in special characters, usually mad doc, but i one day might ambush in ghaz but so far i've veiwed that as a little too cheap

Dashofpepper wrote:

bagtagger wrote:At every store I have played they ruled that IC's in the nob squad get both fnp and the +1 ws. I see you're point dash but that's just how it's played in the NE so i just have to live with it.

@notabot: Every time I see this come up in YMTC, its settled quite firmly with plenty of explanation from the rules. There is a compelling argument to why "Ambush" is not a unit special rule, so may be used on ICs though.

I've done a lot of searching and even started my own threads on this exact rule that you participated in and all I've ever seen is that yes warbosses get FnP from joining nob squads. If you could point me to a thread where your opinion is actually in the majority I'd really like to read all the reasoning.

G00fySmiley wrote:

but i have lots of fun ambushing in special characters, usually mad doc, but i one day might ambush in ghaz but so far i've veiwed that as a little too cheap

What's funny is that if you go by what you consider to be the correct ruling for doc's tools then your unit of kommandos doesn't benefit from the mad doc giving them FnP because he has the exact same rules as the painboy. Not many people make that connection though.

On topic:
Very few things can realistically beat Ghazz in close combat either alone or when he's in a large group of boyz/burnas. If that is the method you have for defeating him however (say if you're playing as nids) then your best shot is for combined charges or countercharges into his unit and ultimately force a leadership check at ld 2-4 as even with a re-roll the odds are not in his favor of success. You really do have to force the check though if you want to accomplish your goal (and get the charge off on the orks as the str 3 for them off the charge really hurts). Whatever the case if you do end up assaulting ghaz+co the 2++ had better be gone.

A way to kill Ghazzy? Unleash the C'tan!