What is the best way to kill Ghazghkull Thraka?

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**ChrisWWII**

A Vindicare if anything to break Ghazzy's 2++ save could be quite useful.

**forruner_mercy**

A overkill force would be one Vindicare and two Callidus Assassins. That is something that would go with the "just to be sure" phrase.

**ChrisWWII**

IIRC you can only take one assassin.

**forruner_mercy**

Oh. Well in that case, I would go with a Callidus Assassin. Just one, if used right, could take him out. Plus maybe some support from some other unit.
I am assuming that this is all with the least amount of resources (points+number of units)? Because you could go all out, but that would not be effective.

**im2randomghgh**

forruner_mercy wrote:What about one or two Callidus Assassins? To be truthful, I don't know much about them. From the little I do know, it seems like a good choice. But I could be wrong.

no one is going to waste points fielding 2 callidus, just doesn't make sense.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

forruner_mercy wrote:Oh. Well in that case, I would go with a Callidus Assassin. Just one, if used right, could take him out. Plus maybe some support from some other unit.
I am assuming that this is all with the least amount of resources (points+number of units)? Because you could go all out, but that would not be effective.

If used right, a firewarrior could kill a GD of Khorne, so that's a moot point.

**forruner_mercy**

Good point...I think. I dont really know much about Tau, SM's, or the assassins.

**im2randomghgh**

forruner_mercy wrote:Good point...I think. I dont really know much about Tau, SM's, or the assassins.

...40k player not knowing much about SMs, I am having trouble accepting that...

**forruner_mercy**

In what way? Me not really knowing their tactics? Or the backstory?

**TehScat**

Dashofpepper wrote:Whatever transport he's in....blow it up. He's slow as gak after that.

This. Marines and Tau have great long-range can openers, even against battle wagons. If you're worried about Ghaz and his retinue, just shoot his transport until its stunned or immob, then forget him if he's more than 20" away. From there, either keep backing up, or load him with dakka. He's only powerful if he can catch you, and get into assault, so some smart play will let you out maneuver him once his transport is gone.

Of course, there is always the chance you'll shoot everything, achieve nothing, then his entire army will move-disembark-waaaugh-assault and you insta-lose. Dice are cool, hey?

**KingCracker**

ChrisWWII wrote:IIRC you can only take one assassin.

I thought it was 1 of each type of assassin.

**ChrisWWII**

KingCracker wrote:

I thought it was 1 of each type of assassin.

It could very well be, I'm jsut going off of hearsay. I'm not sure entirerly, so don't quote me on that.

**mrfantastical**

mrfantastical wrote:
I have a friend that plays SM and I play Ghazzy a lot and he has an anti-Ghazzy list where he takes LC Termies in a Land raider.

What he does is either try to Assault Ghazzy Turn 1 (so he can't Waaagh), or sacrifice another until to waste the Waagh, and then Assault Ghazzy afterwords.

cant he activate his waagh whenever he likes?

"Ghazghkrull's Waagh can be summoned at any time, but only once per game, and not on the first tum." (Ork Codex page 58)

**im2randomghgh**

KingCracker wrote:
ChrisWWII wrote:IIRC you can only take one assassin.

I thought it was 1 of each type of assassin.

Doesn't matter, they were talking about two callidus.

**Jihallah**

If you're writing up a list specifically to take down Ghaz, your doin' it wrong

**Exergy**

forruner_mercy wrote:What about one or two Callidus Assassins? To be truthful, I don't know much about them. From the little I do know, it seems like a good choice. But I could be wrong.

they are unique so you can only take one.
they arrive and put a hurting on anything with low leadership but a good armor save. Then they get shot to hell. One Krak missile they fail to dodge and they are gone.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisWWII wrote:A Vindicare if anything to break Ghazzy's 2++ save could be quite useful.

a vindi cannot break gazzy's 2+ save

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forruner_mercy wrote:A overkill force would be one Vindicare and two Callidus Assassins. That is something that would go with the "just to be sure" phrase.

gazzy is immune to ID and a callidus is going to sit out in the open for a turn after he deep strikes and get shoot up. either one rokkit or a lot of dakka.

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mrfantastical wrote:
"Ghazghkrull's Waagh can be summoned at any time, but only once per game, and not on the first tum." (Ork Codex page 58)

dam you fine print.

**ChrisWWII**

Exergy wrote:
a vindi cannot break gazzy's 2+ save

Why not? Isn't that what the shield breaker round does?

**mrfantastical**

Ghazzy's 2++ save comes from his Waaagh. Vindicare can break his 5++ save, however.

**im2randomghgh**

Exergy wrote:
forruner_mercy wrote:What about one or two Callidus Assassins? To be truthful, I don't know much about them. From the little I do know, it seems like a good choice. But I could be wrong.

they are unique so you can only take one.
they arrive and put a hurting on anything with low leadership but a good armor save. Then they get shot to hell. One Krak missile they fail to dodge and they are gone.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisWWII wrote:A Vindicare if anything to break Ghazzy's 2++ save could be quite useful.

a vindi cannot break gazzy's 2+ save

Automatically Appended Next Post:

forruner_mercy wrote:A overkill force would be one Vindicare and two Callidus Assassins. That is something that would go with the "just to be sure" phrase.

On your first point, that logic can be applied to anything below T6 w/o eternal warrior. Railgun much?

Also, the Vindicare CAN pierce Ghazzy 2++. Look up the vindicare ammunition rules.

gazzy is immune to ID and a callidus is going to sit out in the open for a turn after he deep strikes and get shoot up. either one rokkit or a lot of dakka.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrfantastical wrote:
"Ghazghkrull's Waagh can be summoned at any time, but only once per game, and not on the first tum." (Ork Codex page 58)

dam you fine print.

**Bloodhorror**

Surely though his Waagh IMPROVES his Invunerable save to a 2++?

**Anvildude**

When Waaagh!ing, Ghazzy's surrounded by a field of pure Waaagh! energy, watched over by Gork and Mork themselves, so that he shall ne'er be struck down while spreading the Waaagh!! to all corners of the galaxy, and beyond!

**ChrisWWII**

Depending on the exact wording of the rules for the Vindicare assassin, that could mean it's vulnerable to the shield breaker.

**Exergy**

ChrisWWII wrote:Depending on the exact wording of the rules for the Vindicare assassin, that could mean it's vulnerable to the shield breaker.

yes it removes invulnerable saves confered by wargear. Mega armor does not confer an invulnerable save

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im2randomghgh wrote:
Also, the Vindicare CAN pierce Ghazzy 2++. Look up the vindicare ammunition rules.

clearly I have read the ammunition rules. The shield breaker removes invulnerable saves conferred by war gear. So that takes away his 5++. Mega armor does not confer an invulnerable save, thus it is not removed. Gazzy has special rules that make his save invulnerable. The vindy's shield breaker does not remove special rules.

on both counts there are several threads in YMDC that explain this. This is the tactics section.

**sourclams**

What the WAAAGH does is turn his armor save into an invulnerable save.

Thus Mega Armor 2+ turns into Mega Armor 2++.

I can see that one argued both ways, but I personally think the Shield Breaker kills off his WAAAGH save because the 2++ is conferred by the interaction of a special rule with wargear, not by a special rule or non-wargear origin alone.

**ChrisWWII**

I'm tempted to agree with sourclams, if the wording of Ghazzie's WAAAGH is that it turns his 2+ armor save granted to him by Mega Armor into an invul save, then technically the invul save is being given to him by the Mega Armor.

I think the shield breaker only doesn't work on things like Daemons who have a 5+ invul save thanks to being daemons.

**Exergy**

ChrisWWII wrote:I'm tempted to agree with sourclams, if the wording of Ghazzie's WAAAGH is that it turns his 2+ armor save granted to him by Mega Armor into an invul save, then technically the invul save is being given to him by the Mega Armor.

I think the shield breaker only doesn't work on things like Daemons who have a 5+ invul save thanks to being daemons.

The wording on gazzy is that any armor save he has becomes invunerable. It does not mention his mega armor but that is the best save he has.

**sourclams**

And his armor save is conferred by wargear.

WAAAGH turns his armor save into an invulnerable save.

Thus his invulnerable save is conferred by the interaction of wargear and a special rule.

**Miraclefish**

It just says his save becomes invulnerable. It doesn't mention Wargear, so I don't think it applies.

**sourclams**

And what does he get saves from?

Wargear. Cybork Body and Mega Armor.

Take away the wargear (what shield breaker affects) and he has no save.

This is unlike a Carnifex, for example, which simply has a 3+ save.

**Bloodhorror**

I'd have to agree with Sourclams.

However, if someone was to supply a direct quote from the Ork Codex, then this'd be MUCH easier

**Miraclefish**

From Codex: Orks

"Wargear: Ghazghkull has... a cybork body, mega-armour..."

"Ghazghkull's Waaagh! last the remainder of that player turn and all the remaining player turn. During this period Ghazghkull's saving throw is invulnerable."

Hmm, looks like I'm wrong...