What is the best way to kill Ghazghkull Thraka?

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**KingCracker**

Jidmah wrote:
KingCracker wrote:
Jidmah wrote:While "Walks through their army" means, he can actually kill something in close combat without being force weaponed or purged by fire.

Yea cause EVERY army has force weapons and cleansing flame

Every army shooting shield breakers does.

Splitting hairs

**im2randomghgh**

OR field a Tau Manta. Nothing beats a Manta. Almost a meter across...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's like a kite...

**KingCracker**

Are we talking APOC now? Because this becomes an area of what wouldnt beat Ghaz in APOC. All titans/super heavies would shoot him to death wouldnt they?

**Jidmah**

Only if he doesn't reach them first

**KingCracker**

Yes thats true, but Im assuming Mr Thraka isnt magically teleported on the ankle of a titan

**ChrisWWII**

KingCracker wrote:Are we talking APOC now? Because this becomes an area of what wouldnt beat Ghaz in APOC. All titans/super heavies would shoot him to death wouldnt they?

I think so, I mean if I saw Ghaz running at me, and I had a Vortex missile, he'd be pretty high on the list of things I want to shoot with it.

**Miraclefish**

im2randomghgh wrote:
bagtagger wrote:Dashofpepper is right the rest are wrong, if there is anything more to say about it then move this to the rules section.

As for the OP Dashofpepper is right again, there is no good way to kill him. The best is to take out his transport early and make him crawl towards your line or similarly deny combat to him and thus negate his combat utility.

Or field a GD of Khorne and wipe him out in one/two turns without even realising he was there. Seriously, nothing beats a GD of Khorne in melee, except maybe a GD of Slaanesh, they're about even.

DoP, I still think I'm right, but I will stop arguing for two reasons: 1. I don't run Orks or Ordos so it doesn't affect me-at all, and 2. Because I can't see this going anywhere productive.

Actually Thraka would beat most Greater Daemons. He's higher strength, has a better Invulnerable save during the Waaagh! turn, gets more attacks on the charge and, crucially, is almost never, ever on his own but is surrounded by up to 20 or so ablative wounds often toting S9 weapons and Cybork Bodies of their own...

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KingCracker wrote:Yes thats true, but Im assuming Mr Thraka isnt magically teleported on the ankle of a titan

Well, funnily enough, there's a thing called 'Ere We Go...

**ChrisWWII**

Or he infamous 'outflanking giant armoured Ork Titan suppository' thing..

**G00fySmiley**

^^ on my ghaz/mad doc power list they are each in a battlewagon with 9 mega nobz all with cybork bodies ... i'd definatly charge any GD out there heck nothign comes to mind that i wouldn't charge with them

this list is kinda rediculous i should note... its almost purely meganobs in battlewagons with 2 grot units for holding stuff ... and thats it

**ChrisWWII**

My first response to that list would be to start lobbing shells at the Gretchin, no offense. If I kill them/make them run away, it'll be hard for you to win in objectives. I'm confident in my blob's tarpit abilities.

**Jidmah**

Usually all nobz are scoring during Apoc, as you can get a warboss for each of them

**ChrisWWII**

But we're not playing apoc...

**G00fySmiley**

chris it is a fluf flist not a competative lists... none of my lists are competative just meant to be fun. that pretty much describes every list i play, and as a guard player usually against guard people throw chimera missles at the nobs hoping for lots of hits after popping the battlewagons(and trying to run the grots off objectives if applicable of coarse) , then lots of flashlight shots on em cause they will not make all of thier saves. still a very fun list to field

**Dashofpepper**

Orks are my favorite army in Apocalypse.

I had a 10,000 point game and the core of my army was 10 Cyber-Stompas with a Big Mek using a KFF inside each...10 Lifta-Droppas, 10 Supa-Gatlas, a bunch of D-weapons...nothing like picking up land raiders and tossing them across the field onto other vehicles and causing automatic penetrating hits!

**schadenfreude**

Back on the topic of PBS. It doesn't matter if Ghaz is fearless, once he joins a unit he's subject to whatever rules the unit is subject to. If the unit is nobs or meganobs all the IG player has to do is kill 25% of them. If the unit is boys the IG player has to knock the squad size down to 10, which will certainly kill 25% of the squad in the process.

Second most possible humiliating death for Ghazz=PBS down to leadership 2, force a morale test, and charge him with S2 WS2 T2 ratlings. The first and foremost humiliating way to kill Ghaz would be to do the same thing in a doubles game, except kill him with an allied ork player's grots instead of ratlings.

**G00fySmiley**

^ most humiliating ghaz death i've seen was double one's hit on a SAG all models in d6 (inthis case 4) inches removed from play... took out his 2 hq and some mega nobs >_< he was using ghaz and the meganobs to hold an objective and make it rough to take (i was scratchign my head from the start and secretly hopign for double one's) cleaned up the remaining meganobs with looted wagon fire

**Exergy**

Jidmah wrote:First to clear out all the misquoting:

"Shield Braker: When a wound from this round is allocated to a model, that model loses any invulnerable saves granted by items of wargear immediately, and for the rest of the battle. Remaining saves (if any) can then be taken."(Codex: Grey Knights pg. 53)

"Mega Armor:[fluff] Mega armor confers a 2+ armor save and includes both a twin-linked shoota and a power klaw. A model wearing mega armor has the Slow and Purposeful special rule."(Codex: Orks pg. 39)

"Prophet of the Waagh!: Ghazghkull's Waaagh! lasts the remainder of that player turn and all the following player turn. During this period Ghazghkull's saving throw is invulnerable." (Codex: Orks pg. 58)

Prophet of the Waagh! grants Ghazghkull's an invulnerable saving throw, not Mega armor or any other piece of wargear. Mega armor never ever grants an invulnerable save, not even during the Waaagh!, as some people claim, none of the rules tell you to change the wargear or it's save. Note that any cover save Ghazghkull has would become invulnerable, too. Mega armor can not be affected by Shield Braker in any way. During a Waagh! the mega armor still grants an armor save, which is then turned into an invulnerable save by PotW!. This is not the same as granting an invulnerable save. A fictional "armor breaker" which removes any armor saves, would still be able to remove the 2+ save during Ghazghkull's Waaagh!, and in turn decrease the invulnerable save to his cover/cybork save.

If you'd want to get to really hair-splitty RAW, there is no rule stating saves printed on a statlines are actually the exact same one the piece of armor that model is wearing confers. It just tells you worn armor confers a saving throw, but not the other way arround.

This has come up on YMDC multiple times, and there has been not rules backup for Shieldbreaker working on anything but cybork for Ghazghkull Thrakka.

exactly!

**KingCracker**

Dashofpepper wrote:Orks are my favorite army in Apocalypse.

I had a 10,000 point game and the core of my army was 10 Cyber-Stompas with a Big Mek using a KFF inside each...10 Lifta-Droppas, 10 Supa-Gatlas, a bunch of D-weapons...nothing like picking up land raiders and tossing them across the field onto other vehicles and causing automatic penetrating hits!

The lifta droppa has been my fav tool in the entire game since I first read about it. Ive never used it as Ive never played APOC, but who can argue with what the thing does

**Anvildude**

Yup. It Lifta's, then it Droppa's.

Like how Shootas shoot, Choppas chop, and Burnas burn. Big Choppas are big choppas, (or are used to choppa big stuff), Dakkaguns go Dakkadakkadakka, Sluggas slug (in all senses of the word, except the slimy one), Deffgunz make you Deff, Stompas stomp, etc.

Orky tech is pretty cool like that. Unlike Bolters, which don't bolt, or pistols which don't really piss.

**im2randomghgh**

Greater Daemon of Khorne vs. Ghazzy.

I`ll add points for things sthe daemons better at, and minus for things it`s worse at.

WS: +4
BS: +2
Str: +2
T: +1
W: +0
I: +1
A: +0
Sv: -2

+8 for GD of Khorne. I know it`s a weird way to compare, but it`s still effective.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now I`ll do a GD of Slaanesh.

WS: +2
BS: +2
Str: +1
T: +1
W: +0
I: +6
A: +1
Ld: +1
Sv: -2

+12

**bagtagger**

The problem with the greater demon is it can't kill ghaz in one turn and then what happens is ghaz and his retinue of mega nobz will easily beat the greater demon down

**im2randomghgh**

Nurgle:

WS: +0
BS: +2
Str: +1
T: +1
W: +1
I: -2
A: -1
Ld: +1
Sv: -2

+1

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bagtagger wrote:The problem with the greater demon is it can't kill ghaz in one turn and then what happens is ghaz and his retinue of mega nobz will easily beat the greater demon down

Who says the GD won`t be surrounded be an enormous horde of Blood Letters, and, though it would be wasteful, I could field several GD, whereas there can only be one Ghazzy. Plus, this is about GD vs. Ghazzy.

**Dashofpepper**

All of those daemon comparisons to Ghaz need to remember that he's STR10, not STR5. He has no option to be STR5 either.

**im2randomghgh**

Dashofpepper wrote:All of those daemon comparisons to Ghaz need to remember that he's STR10, not STR5. He has no option to be STR5 either.

I am just using the GW website statline, as I don't have, and would never consider getting orks codex/army.

Either way, except for the Nurgle Daemon, they still pull out WAAAAY in the lead.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I have proven my point, GDs rape Ghazzy in the ass. The only reason that the Nurgle daemon is behind is that this doesn't represent special rules. This is also why I didn't include a Lord of Change, since their baseline stats are nothing like worth the points, it is only their unbelievable psychic powers that are really a redeeming property.

**MrDrumMachine**

im2randomghgh wrote:
Dashofpepper wrote:All of those daemon comparisons to Ghaz need to remember that he's STR10, not STR5. He has no option to be STR5 either.

I am just using the GW website statline, as I don't have, and would never consider getting orks codex/army.

Either way, except for the Nurgle Daemon, they still pull out WAAAAY in the lead.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I have proven my point, GDs rape Ghazzy in the ass. The only reason that the Nurgle daemon is behind is that this doesn't represent special rules. This is also why I didn't include a Lord of Change, since their baseline stats are nothing like worth the points, it is only their unbelievable psychic powers that are really a redeeming property.

Actually if you wanted to prove your point you could I dunno. . . do some math?

**im2randomghgh**

MrDrumMachine wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Dashofpepper wrote:All of those daemon comparisons to Ghaz need to remember that he's STR10, not STR5. He has no option to be STR5 either.

I am just using the GW website statline, as I don't have, and would never consider getting orks codex/army.

Either way, except for the Nurgle Daemon, they still pull out WAAAAY in the lead.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I have proven my point, GDs rape Ghazzy in the ass. The only reason that the Nurgle daemon is behind is that this doesn't represent special rules. This is also why I didn't include a Lord of Change, since their baseline stats are nothing like worth the points, it is only their unbelievable psychic powers that are really a redeeming property.

Actually if you wanted to prove your point you could I dunno. . . do some math?

Fine. I'll repost with the math (Ghazzy vs. Gd of Kh and Sl only) shortly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
GD of Khorne vs. Ghazzy v1.0

GD assaulting.

GD turn 1: six attacks. WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 wounds.
MC pens armour automatically.
5+ cybork inv. save (I think it`s inv. anyways)
3 wounds.

Ghazzy has 1 wound left at the end of GD turn one.

Ghazzy Turn one: WS6 vs. WS 10=6 to hit
If he`s lucky, one hit.
Str 10 VS. T6=2+ to wound.
1 wound.
4++ save
50% chance for one wound.

GD turn 2: repeat until combat finished.

End result: GD wound-either 1 or 0.
Ghazzy wounds: 5

Please don`t post until I have finished all my mathhammer posts

Automatically Appended Next Post:
GD of Khorne vs. Ghazzy v1.0.5

GD Assaulting

GD turn 1: six attacks. WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 wounds.
MC pens armour automatically.
5+ cybork inv. save (I think it`s inv. anyways)
3 wounds.

Ghazzy turn 1: activated prophet of the Waaagh!
WS6 vs. WS 10=6 to hit
If he`s lucky, one hit.
Str 10 VS. T6=2+ to wound.
1 wound.
4++ save
50% chance for one wound.

GD Turn 2:
WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 or 4 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 or 3 wounds.
2++ inv. save.
More than 50% chance of final wound (I know, lame MH)

Combat to GD again.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
reverse GD turns one and two for GD assault Ghazzy who already has PotW.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If someone does a Ghazzy assaulting simulation, then I will do a GD of SL sim.

**BeRzErKeR**

Ghazghkull can activate PotW on the GD's turn; he always has that 2++ for the first two rounds of combat, no matter who assaults.

**im2randomghgh**

BeRzErKeR wrote:Ghazghkull can activate PotW on the GD's turn; he always has that 2++ for the first two rounds of combat, no matter who assaults.

GD still wins.

GD attacking PotW Ghazzy has 50% ish chance to wound, and so does Ghazzy. This means theyèd be about even until Ghazzy PotW wears off, because the turn it does, he will die. 2 turns of 50% chance to hit=1 wound. 1 Turn of GD without PotW= three wounds on top of the other wounds. Cut, it is done.

**MrDrumMachine**

im2randomghgh wrote:
MrDrumMachine wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Dashofpepper wrote:All of those daemon comparisons to Ghaz need to remember that he's STR10, not STR5. He has no option to be STR5 either.

I am just using the GW website statline, as I don't have, and would never consider getting orks codex/army.

Either way, except for the Nurgle Daemon, they still pull out WAAAAY in the lead.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I have proven my point, GDs rape Ghazzy in the ass. The only reason that the Nurgle daemon is behind is that this doesn't represent special rules. This is also why I didn't include a Lord of Change, since their baseline stats are nothing like worth the points, it is only their unbelievable psychic powers that are really a redeeming property.

Actually if you wanted to prove your point you could I dunno. . . do some math?

Fine. I'll repost with the math (Ghazzy vs. Gd of Kh and Sl only) shortly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
GD of Khorne vs. Ghazzy v1.0

GD assaulting.

GD turn 1: six attacks. WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 wounds.
MC pens armour automatically.
5+ cybork inv. save (I think it`s inv. anyways)
3 wounds.

Ghazzy has 1 wound left at the end of GD turn one.

Ghazzy Turn one: WS6 vs. WS 10=6 to hit
If he`s lucky, one hit.
Str 10 VS. T6=2+ to wound.
1 wound.
4++ save
50% chance for one wound.

GD turn 2: repeat until combat finished.

End result: GD wound-either 1 or 0.
Ghazzy wounds: 5

Please don`t post until I have finished all my mathhammer posts

Automatically Appended Next Post:
GD of Khorne vs. Ghazzy v1.0.5

GD Assaulting

GD turn 1: six attacks. WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 wounds.
MC pens armour automatically.
5+ cybork inv. save (I think it`s inv. anyways)
3 wounds.

Ghazzy turn 1: activated prophet of the Waaagh!
WS6 vs. WS 10=6 to hit
If he`s lucky, one hit.
Str 10 VS. T6=2+ to wound.
1 wound.
4++ save
50% chance for one wound.

GD Turn 2:
WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 or 4 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 or 3 wounds.
2++ inv. save.
More than 50% chance of final wound (I know, lame MH)

Combat to GD again.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
reverse GD turns one and two for GD assault Ghazzy who already has PotW.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If someone does a Ghazzy assaulting simulation, then I will do a GD of SL sim.

You really need to learn the assault rules. Only model that hits on a 2+ in close combat is Kharn, everyone else can AT BEST hit on a 3+ (sometimes re-rollable blah blah). Striking back AT WORST is a 5+, however in order to do that you have to have a weapon skill of double +1 and as Ghaz is WS 6 I don't see the blood thirster with a 13 weapon skill so try it with him hitting on a 4+.

**im2randomghgh**

MrDrumMachine wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
MrDrumMachine wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Dashofpepper wrote:All of those daemon comparisons to Ghaz need to remember that he's STR10, not STR5. He has no option to be STR5 either.

I am just using the GW website statline, as I don't have, and would never consider getting orks codex/army.

Either way, except for the Nurgle Daemon, they still pull out WAAAAY in the lead.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I have proven my point, GDs rape Ghazzy in the ass. The only reason that the Nurgle daemon is behind is that this doesn't represent special rules. This is also why I didn't include a Lord of Change, since their baseline stats are nothing like worth the points, it is only their unbelievable psychic powers that are really a redeeming property.

Actually if you wanted to prove your point you could I dunno. . . do some math?

Fine. I'll repost with the math (Ghazzy vs. Gd of Kh and Sl only) shortly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
GD of Khorne vs. Ghazzy v1.0

GD assaulting.

GD turn 1: six attacks. WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 wounds.
MC pens armour automatically.
5+ cybork inv. save (I think it`s inv. anyways)
3 wounds.

Ghazzy has 1 wound left at the end of GD turn one.

Ghazzy Turn one: WS6 vs. WS 10=6 to hit
If he`s lucky, one hit.
Str 10 VS. T6=2+ to wound.
1 wound.
4++ save
50% chance for one wound.

GD turn 2: repeat until combat finished.

End result: GD wound-either 1 or 0.
Ghazzy wounds: 5

Please don`t post until I have finished all my mathhammer posts

Automatically Appended Next Post:
GD of Khorne vs. Ghazzy v1.0.5

GD Assaulting

GD turn 1: six attacks. WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 wounds.
MC pens armour automatically.
5+ cybork inv. save (I think it`s inv. anyways)
3 wounds.

Ghazzy turn 1: activated prophet of the Waaagh!
WS6 vs. WS 10=6 to hit
If he`s lucky, one hit.
Str 10 VS. T6=2+ to wound.
1 wound.
4++ save
50% chance for one wound.

GD Turn 2:
WS 10 vs WS 6=2+ to hit.
5 or 4 hits.
Str 7 vs. T5=2+ to wound.
4 or 3 wounds.
2++ inv. save.
More than 50% chance of final wound (I know, lame MH)

Combat to GD again.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
reverse GD turns one and two for GD assault Ghazzy who already has PotW.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If someone does a Ghazzy assaulting simulation, then I will do a GD of SL sim.

You really need to learn the assault rules. Only model that hits on a 2+ in close combat is Kharn, everyone else can AT BEST hit on a 3+ (sometimes re-rollable blah blah). Striking back AT WORST is a 5+, however in order to do that you have to have a weapon skill of double +1 and as Ghaz is WS 6 I don't see the blood thirster with a 13 weapon skill so try it with him hitting on a 4+.

Blood Thirster has much better WS than kharn, in fact it is physically impossible for it to be better.

When WS is equal to defenders WS it is 4+. For every point of difference in favour of the attacker, subtract one from the number. 2+ is correct.