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i gotta say Fulgrim, whenever i see him or read about him and his personality i really think of a pedofile- perfectionist

-FrostTooth

Russ or Lorgar.

Russ because he seems like a hypocrite and a little slow-witted. Its cool that he wants to fight and get drunk but things should not have gone down with the Thousand Sons like they did.

Lorgar because he seems like stereotypical teen. Sure, he is well hench and kinda golden but that does not make up for the fact he is overly emotional and fudged his Dad over.

Niccolo wrote:

liquidjoshi wrote:Wait, so you don't respect any of the Space Marine chapters aside from the Salamanders, arguably the most glory hogging chapter (alongside the smurfs of course )
.

Either my sarcasm detector is off, or this is one of the worst fluff arguments ever. The Salamanders THING is that they don't care about glory as long as the job gets done. Maybe as individuals they care, but as a chapter they are very good at putting pride to the side. They willingly take rearguard duties and hold supply lines in check while others rush forward securely to glory in front line battle. They are also quick to share victories and acknowledge those who participated, be they other Astartes or Guard. This, their dedication to humanity, self-reliance, and their love for sweet burny fire are the defining characteristics for the Sallies chapter as a whole.

I have a feeling, though, that if we get more from Vulkan in the HH he will be Kymed to critical mockability.

Never said they weren't noble. But I'm fairly sure they take as much glory as any other given chapter, and are pretty much poster boys second only to the Smurfs. Besides, we've moved on from this conversation, deal with it.

So, once again, Russ, Eye of terror, massive frat boy, etc, etc.

The more I think about how the SW were done, the more it disappoints me. Supposedly, they were supposed to be space vikings, but there's little to know warrior-culture, aside from that inherent to all space marines. The whole animal-worship thing was not included in Norse mythology, IIRC, and in the cultures it DID exist in (Native Americans come to mind), it was by no way limited to wolves. I suppose it seemed cool at the time it was made, but... It's just tacky, now. Big ol' space frats who are overly obsessed with wolves.

But they could have done it really, really well. There was a lot of potential there. But who knows? Maybe 6th edition will bring about a SW reboot?

Perhaps. Perhaps they'll straighten up, cut the extra 400 or so marines they have chillin' around and, you know, start playing by the rules. Or they can go completely the other way and go full Chaos. I really don't care which.

Lorgar becomes an all-mighty BADASS in Aurelian. Srsly, that book needed to be at least a hundred times longer.

For mock-worth Primarch? Leman Russ, obviously. He's ignorant(thinks Fenris produces the Rune Priests' powers and not the Warp, derp), smelly(wolf people always are), oh, and speaking of wolf people...

HE'S A FURRY! 'Nuff said.

What part of Aurelian does he become a badass? Seriously, I must have missed it, lol. Badassery is as much mental and psychological as it is physical. Lorgrar might become stronger via Chaos, but he remains a whining, petulant child with Daddy issues and consuming jealousy of his more accomplished brothers.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:What part of Aurelian does he become a badass? Seriously, I must have missed it, lol. Badassery is as much mental and psychological as it is physical. Lorgrar might become stronger via Chaos, but he remains a whining, petulant child with Daddy issues and consuming jealousy of his more accomplished brothers.

The part where he nearly killed Fulgrim and then told Horus to back off, which Horus tried not to obey but couldn't help it. Does that not count as badass? He's accepted that he is the high priest of Chaos Undivided now, and I didn't hear a single whiney thing from him once he made than transition.

I'm starting to think people are really trolling the way they keep saying Russ and the SW by extension are hypocrites because "they don't trust psychers blah blah blah."

Facts
Russ doesn't like Magnus
The Space Wolves have rune priests instead of librarians
Rune Priests are basically fenrisian shamans who date all the way back to before Magnus even began his intense studies into his psycher abilities
Magnus is the forefather of all warp manipulating librarians because the training they receive is born out of his research.
Rune Priests are not trained like this

Why do Space Wolves think their different again? Oh it must be because their stupid and ignorant.

Russ Mandarin wrote:I'm starting to think people are really trolling the way they keep saying Russ and the SW by extension are hypocrites because "they don't trust psychers blah blah blah."

Facts
Russ doesn't like Magnus
The Space Wolves have rune priests instead of librarians
Rune Priests are basically fenrisian shamans who date all the way back to before Magnus even began his intense studies into his psycher abilities
Magnus is the forefather of all warp manipulating librarians because the training they receive is born out of his research.
Rune Priests are not trained like this

Why do Space Wolves think their different again? Oh it must be because their stupid and ignorant.

Rune Priests are psykers, just like Librarians. Russ, being an idiot, thinks they aren't.

LoneLictor wrote:

Russ Mandarin wrote:I'm starting to think people are really trolling the way they keep saying Russ and the SW by extension are hypocrites because "they don't trust psychers blah blah blah."

Facts
Russ doesn't like Magnus
The Space Wolves have rune priests instead of librarians
Rune Priests are basically fenrisian shamans who date all the way back to before Magnus even began his intense studies into his psycher abilities
Magnus is the forefather of all warp manipulating librarians because the training they receive is born out of his research.
Rune Priests are not trained like this

Why do Space Wolves think their different again? Oh it must be because their stupid and ignorant.

Rune Priests are psykers, just like Librarians. Russ, being an idiot, thinks they aren't.

and yet they aren't in any way trained like traditional psychers, Don't touch the warp at all, and have no problem fighting beside the sisters of silence.
There's a reason the Council of Nikea did not apply to Rune Priests and that's because they have no connection to Magnus' warp tinged brand of librarians

Russ Mandarin wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Russ Mandarin wrote:I'm starting to think people are really trolling the way they keep saying Russ and the SW by extension are hypocrites because "they don't trust psychers blah blah blah."

Facts
Russ doesn't like Magnus
The Space Wolves have rune priests instead of librarians
Rune Priests are basically fenrisian shamans who date all the way back to before Magnus even began his intense studies into his psycher abilities
Magnus is the forefather of all warp manipulating librarians because the training they receive is born out of his research.
Rune Priests are not trained like this

Why do Space Wolves think their different again? Oh it must be because their stupid and ignorant.

Rune Priests are psykers, just like Librarians. Russ, being an idiot, thinks they aren't.

and yet they aren't in any way trained like traditional psychers, Don't touch the warp at all, and have no problem fighting beside the sisters of silence.
There's a reason the Council of Nikea did not apply to Rune Priests and that's because they have no connection to Magnus' warp tinged brand of librarians

You may be playing a different game than Warhammer 40k.

SoulGazer wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:What part of Aurelian does he become a badass? Seriously, I must have missed it, lol. Badassery is as much mental and psychological as it is physical. Lorgrar might become stronger via Chaos, but he remains a whining, petulant child with Daddy issues and consuming jealousy of his more accomplished brothers.

The part where he nearly killed Fulgrim and then told Horus to back off, which Horus tried not to obey but couldn't help it. Does that not count as badass? He's accepted that he is the high priest of Chaos Undivided now, and I didn't hear a single whiney thing from him once he made than transition.

The very act of transitioning was his ultimate act of whining and bitchery though. He fell to Chaos because he was weak, because he was angry, because he didn't feel validated by the Emperor. He was a woman, lol. He may have felt his ego and confidence inflated by his new powers, but that's just kinda pathetic. Reminds me of Friday where Ice Cube's dad tells him to be a man instead of taking his confidence from carrying a gun. That scene in KNF where he gloats in front of Guilliman reeks of some angry kid with a gun, gloating in the face of some team captain or other popular kid he's fantasized about killing just because that kid had everything he had ever wanted including being liked and respected.

Lorgar was nothing without Chaos, and he was a pompous fool with it. Doomed his entire Legion and the Imperium because he was a weakling emo kid. He needed a black pompadour haircut and a trenchcoat, not golden skin, heh.

Russ Mandarin wrote:

Why do Space Wolves think their different again? Oh it must be because their stupid and ignorant.

They are. I cheered the Thousand Sons on throughout the Battle of the Fang. Shame Magnus didn't destroy the main gene-seed repository, just the labs. Wouldn't shed a tear if the Space Wolves became extinct. Actually, I might even throw a celebration - with members of the Inquisition and the Dark Angels as guests of honor.

and yet they aren't in any way trained like traditional psychers, Don't touch the warp at all, and have no problem fighting beside the sisters of silence.

Still psykers. All psychic abilities are connected to the Warp. Especially the Emperor - since He's the powerful psyker around. Or, are you saying that since the Emperor's a psyker, He shouldn't use His powers because He's not a Rune Priest and doesn't use snow-flake magic? It depends on how you use your power - the Emperor was actually fine with Librarians and psykers, but He had no choice but to act at Nikaea because the evidence was against Magnus and sorcery was something the Emperor simply couldn't approve of.

There's a reason the Council of Nikea did not apply to Rune Priests and that's because they have no connection to Magnus' warp tinged brand of librarians

And yet, by the end of the Heresy Librarians had been re-sanctioned, considering that the Emperor directed the Blood Angel and Imperial Fist Librarians to counter the sorceries of traitors.

Lorgar becomes an all-mighty BADASS in Aurelian

Not only that but his Legion is the only Legion that actually increases in power with the heresy rather than fall apart like the Emperors Children.

I think the Dorn is the worst of all the primarchs, he caused both the Night Lords and Iron Warrios to joined Horus.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:

Lorgar becomes an all-mighty BADASS in Aurelian

Not only that but his Legion is the only Legion that actually increases in power with the heresy rather than fall apart like the Emperors Children.

I think the Dorn is the worst of all the primarchs, he caused both the Night Lords and Iron Warrios to joined Horus.

and double teamed with Guilliman to push Alpharius Omegon in that direction as well.

King Pariah wrote:

ZSO SAHALL wrote:

Lorgar becomes an all-mighty BADASS in Aurelian

Not only that but his Legion is the only Legion that actually increases in power with the heresy rather than fall apart like the Emperors Children.

I think the Dorn is the worst of all the primarchs, he caused both the Night Lords and Iron Warrios to joined Horus.

and double teamed with Guilliman to push Alpharius Omegon in that direction as well.

Let's not forget the rabid dog who pushed Magnus the Crimson King to join Horus as well!

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

SoulGazer wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:What part of Aurelian does he become a badass? Seriously, I must have missed it, lol. Badassery is as much mental and psychological as it is physical. Lorgrar might become stronger via Chaos, but he remains a whining, petulant child with Daddy issues and consuming jealousy of his more accomplished brothers.

The part where he nearly killed Fulgrim and then told Horus to back off, which Horus tried not to obey but couldn't help it. Does that not count as badass? He's accepted that he is the high priest of Chaos Undivided now, and I didn't hear a single whiney thing from him once he made than transition.

The very act of transitioning was his ultimate act of whining and bitchery though. He fell to Chaos because he was weak, because he was angry, because he didn't feel validated by the Emperor. He was a woman, lol. He may have felt his ego and confidence inflated by his new powers, but that's just kinda pathetic. Reminds me of Friday where Ice Cube's dad tells him to be a man instead of taking his confidence from carrying a gun. That scene in KNF where he gloats in front of Guilliman reeks of some angry kid with a gun, gloating in the face of some team captain or other popular kid he's fantasized about killing just because that kid had everything he had ever wanted including being liked and respected.

Lorgar was nothing without Chaos, and he was a pompous fool with it. Doomed his entire Legion and the Imperium because he was a weakling emo kid. He needed a black pompadour haircut and a trenchcoat, not golden skin, heh.

Uh huh.
"The First Heretic" made it very clear that Lorgar chose Chaos because he would rather have an ugly truth than a beautiful lie. It's true he is overemotional, that's his flaw. And from reading what the emprah did to him in front of the Ultramarines, I'd say the emperor damn well deserved a righteous kick in the teeth.

Lol, you can let go of some kind of faction bias, lol. Lorgar turned to Chaos because he needed validation like a woman. He might as well have been a thirty year old single woman with a dog. He worshiped the Emperor, and when the Emperor refused his idolatry, he ran off looking for someone else to tell him they loved him.

He didn't find any truth with Chaos. They lied to him from the start and he fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. Tricked him into turning against the Emperor and tricked him into helping Horus turn his other brothers. Lorgar was an emotional and mental weakling, and it is little wonder he was the first of the primarchs to fall.

Curze was a bad ass. Horus was a bad ass. Heck, even Vulkan was a bad ass compared to Lorgar. Lorgar was the mascot for losers who ever fantasized about getting back at the people he was jealous of. But he even failed at that, because the Ultramarines obliterated half his legion at Calth (where they had been taken completely by surprise) and then he lost at Terra and spent the next ten thousand years in a tower writing fan fiction.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Lol, you can let go of some kind of faction bias, lol. Lorgar turned to Chaos because he needed validation like a woman. He might as well have been a thirty year old single woman with a dog. He worshiped the Emperor, and when the Emperor refused his idolatry, he ran off looking for someone else to tell him they loved him.

...

Trust me, if a woman is closing in on thirtyand is single and owns a dog, it's because the dog will lick her face and love her unconditionally. Lorgar was looking for someone to love him. His dog just turned out to be Chaos.

Could just as easily be a guy. No reason to call out a gender for a false, stereotypical generalization.

The emperor

I mock the emperor.

He was arrogant as russ, he created a system of interstellar travel that required HIM at its center.

He was judgmental and very much played favorites with his sons, to DISASTROUS ends.

He created a culture of idol worship around himself, and denied his own divinity. it should come as short surprise that people started to turn to occult practices. If someone as powerful as the emperor was not a god, who is? must be the dark powers as they are the only accessible power even close to his level.

He took every part of himself and shaped it into a son, half of those sons became evil, the only true evil 40k knows. orks just want to fight, nids just want to eat, but chaos is something else. the other half are hardly good either, their are many arguments against russ, and half the dark angles were traitors.

King Pariah wrote:Could just as easily be a guy. No reason to call out a gender for a false, stereotypical generalization.

Could easily just not care. It was an example, nothing more.

I'm with Thrawn. The Emperor made some really, really, stupid decisions, and the galaxy is still paying for them to this day.

McNinja wrote:

King Pariah wrote:Could just as easily be a guy. No reason to call out a gender for a false, stereotypical generalization.

Could easily just not care. It was an example, nothing more.

I'm with Thrawn. The Emperor made some really, really, stupid decisions, and the galaxy is still paying for them to this day.

a pretty bad example, "needed validation like a woman"? Sounds chauvinistic.

Anyway, I would agree the Emperor is the most mock worthy... except he's not a Primarch. So, for me, that narrows it down to Guilliman, Dorn, Lorgar, and Russ (that's all that come to mind immediately for me) contesting the most mock-worthy Primarch title.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Lol, you can let go of some kind of faction bias, lol. Lorgar turned to Chaos because he needed validation like a woman. He might as well have been a thirty year old single woman with a dog. He worshiped the Emperor, and when the Emperor refused his idolatry, he ran off looking for someone else to tell him they loved him.

He didn't find any truth with Chaos. They lied to him from the start and he fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. Tricked him into turning against the Emperor and tricked him into helping Horus turn his other brothers. Lorgar was an emotional and mental weakling, and it is little wonder he was the first of the primarchs to fall.

Curze was a bad ass. Horus was a bad ass. Heck, even Vulkan was a bad ass compared to Lorgar. Lorgar was the mascot for losers who ever fantasized about getting back at the people he was jealous of. But he even failed at that, because the Ultramarines obliterated half his legion at Calth (where they had been taken completely by surprise) and then he lost at Terra and spent the next ten thousand years in a tower writing fan fiction.

Wow. Ok. Now who sounds puerile?

"O noes cheuvenism on the internet!"

I know, I know. I was surprised too.

That being said, I agree with his point. Lorgar's way too whiny.

I think we should let the woman comment go-as silly as it is-because the next thing you know we're getting into gender politics and we all know how fun it is to talk about women's issues on the internet.

I still stand by Khan being totally lame, or maybe it's more accurate to say his Legion is lame. Bikes and a Mongol fetish don't make for a cool army.

Also I think I feel the need to apologize to any White Scars players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think it's too easy for people sitting comfortably at their computers to say "well if my own father humilated me in front of my Legion and brothers I'd simply do X,Y, and Z!"

People need to realize that the dude had it rough, of course dedicating yourself to insanity, death, and chaos is a bit extreme but to call him whiny is being dismissive I think.

All the Primarchs "had it rough". I really don't think that's justification for any of his actions.
Furthermore, Lorgar's own people basically think he's an overly emotional cry-baby. Kor Phaeron and Erebus were openly despising him for his irrationality during the Drop-Site massacre, Corax called him weak, Curze called him weak, Guilliman called him weak. Even Lorgar himself stated that he's weak. He literally stated that his "primarch talent" was basically landscaping, as opposed to being a general or a warrior.

I think it's pretty obvious that even the BL writers wanted to portray that he was a whiny kid. Some of that whininess may be justified (I think a lot of people would agree that the Emperor is a complete ass and sucks at reading people). But that doesn't change what he is.

Fair enough, I think I just really like his Legion since they seem the most devoted to Chaos and treat it as an actual religion. Word Bearers are still cool and maybe that's why I feel like I should defend Lorgar.