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Shadowbrand wrote:And really whats the harm at gocking at two nerds butting heads over what game is better?

It's spelled gawking.

If you're going to use a word to attempt to sound intelligent, at least spell it correctly.

At least I try. Saying gak like "Jellymad" should render you suitable to castration so you can't have children.

Shadowbrand wrote:At least I try. Saying gak like "Jellymad" should render you suitable to castration so you can't have children.

At least no one's made any inferences to Nazis yet... Alas, I was hoping the thread could remain civil for a little bit longer.

Ya know the Nazis...

H.B.M.C. wrote:I got three words for ya:

1. French.
2. Golden.
3. Demon.

I wouldn't know about "last".

The French Golden Demon painters represent the top 1% of their craft. Perhaps what they make is art. If you're good enough, you can make a work of creativity and art out of the simplest things. That doesn't change things for us common slobs. My miniatures will never be art, and no amount of putting on airs can make them so. "All my best is dressing old words new, spending again what is already spent."

If human feces smeared onto a canvas can be called art, painting miniatures is damn art.

Agememnon2 wrote:My miniatures will never be art, and no amount of putting on airs can make them so.

If I remember correctly, this whole discussion wasn't about whether painted mini's are art, but about whether miniature painting is an artistic activity, which to me it very much is.

No your dipped Ultramarines may never be on a pedestal in the Tate, but you're busy thinking about colours and forms, finding your own aestetic and generally getting your hands dirty, which is what it's all about.

EldarN00b wrote:

Shadowbrand wrote:At least I try. Saying gak like "Jellymad" should render you suitable to castration so you can't have children.

At least no one's made any inferences to Nazis yet... Alas, I was hoping the thread could remain civil for a little bit longer.

Give it time. And on Dakka. That's a rare occurrence.

I was about to say that I thought it already had come up, but then I remembered that was a different thread (with a similar theme!) that got locked.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I got three words for ya:

1. French.
2. Golden.
3. Demon.

I wouldn't know about "last".

The French Golden Demon painters represent the top 1% of their craft. Perhaps what they make is art. If you're good enough, you can make a work of creativity and art out of the simplest things. That doesn't change things for us common slobs. My miniatures will never be art, and no amount of putting on airs can make them so. "All my best is dressing old words new, spending again what is already spent."

in a world where a bed is art and a model isnt...

if you expres yourself in your models then its art, as in "artistic expression"

Those Dark Angels are lovely, are they yours?

Is that bed 28mm?

That's the same kind of comparison you so often see on the internet between graffiti and modern art.
To really qualify as 'Art' I think there has to be a conceptual or layered element to the work. Those Dark Angels, while looking good, are just prefab models painted according to the book.

There are no qualifications on art. It is purely subjective to the beholder and the creator. In short there is nothing that is intrinsically art. An act can be artistic, but an object cannot natively have the quality of art...that requires interaction with an observer.
This is how a blank canvas can sell for thousands of dollars as "art," where a mural painted by street hooligans is written off as a public nuisance.

I would argue that the DA above are still art...just of a collaborative form.

The same thing happens in the real of literature.

You can't make art with a machine. Those models were molded in their thousands by machine, so not art If they were hand made and painted, then yes.

loki old fart wrote:You can't make art with a machine. Those models were molded in their thousands by machine, so not art If they were hand made and painted, then yes.

Many artists produce art made out of prefabricated models/beginnings.

We had an artist who got a great many other artists to paint/adorn/mutilate/etc a plastic elephant and then the 100 (if I recall correctly) or so results were displayed as 'art'. Mind you, some of them were really nicely done.

We'll see about the Hobbit and how it relates to sales. The book is a very different bird than the LOTR series in relation to making miniatures games - the focus is much more on the individuals and less on the grand scope of things - the Battle of Five Armies is almost an afterthought, in the best tradition of germanic epics..

Someone will make a lot of money on the movie. Who remains to be seen. It is also very dependent on what sort of movies PJ wants to make.

Shandara wrote:
Many artists produce art made out of prefabricated models/beginnings.

We had an artist who got a great many other artists to paint/adorn/mutilate/etc a plastic elephant and then the 100 (if I recall correctly) or so results were displayed as 'art'. Mind you, some of them were really nicely done.

Prefabricated parts not a whole.

Carve a statue out of concrete or stone, it's art.
Cast hundreds of them out of concrete, they're garden ornaments.
Smash them into pieces, and use to make a collage, and you have art again.

TiB wrote:That's the same kind of comparison you so often see on the internet between graffiti and modern art.
To really qualify as 'Art' I think there has to be a conceptual or layered element to the work. Those Dark Angels, while looking good, are just prefab models painted according to the book.

Yes I kind of agree with you there - in the same way as painting by numbers, just copying someone else's creative inspiration perhaps is not as easily quantifiable as art.

Something like this model perhaps, shows a creative spark on behalf of the modeller and painter. I would be far more inclined to label this as artistic, as opposed to the Dark Angels above, despite the admittedly fine standard of painting.

It just keeps coming back to people's individual interpretations of what art is...it still has yet to be demonstrated that there is an innate quality of art to anything.

What is the difference between a mass produced model which started as a miniature sculpture being seen as a piece of art, and mass produced prints of the Mona Lisa?

Also....what does this have to do with GW committing corporate suicide?

Lightcavalier wrote:It just keeps coming back to people's individual interpretations of what art is...it still has yet to be demonstrated that there is an innate quality of art to anything.

What is the difference between a mass produced model which started as a miniature sculpture being seen as a piece of art, and mass produced prints of the Mona Lisa?

Also....what does this have to do with GW committing corporate suicide?

Exactly. It is not a practical discussion within this context, it is entirely off topic, and it only came up because someone mentioned that wargaming is a positive, constructive hobby for one's child to be engaged in.

The question of "what is art" is and always has been an ongoing debate. If people want to have a debate about the nature of art, I think it would be an excellent topic for the Off-Topic forum.

theQuanz wrote:
I just looked at the GW Website...it took me to the Australian version and holy crap those prices are ridiculous.

Beating a dead horse, but wow...these people aren't going to be around much longer at this rate. By 2015 I think GW will be dead and gone.

Heh

Your thread necromancy skills are impressive. A four year old thread:

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.