Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey All,

I have a couple of IG questions for all the veteran guard players.

1) I know Sentinel's suck, but I have 2 I'd like to put into a Catachan force I am working on, so my question would be what to arm them with?? I am going to make them the scout kind, but I just don't know how to arm them?

2) What weapon combo's should my platoons consist of? Autocannons and plasma? LasCannon's and Plasma? Are melta's the new plasma?

3) Command squads, what's the best armament to have on them? I know in the past it was good to arm a PCS with 4xFlamers? CCS armed with 2 Melta's, Vox and Banner?

Thanks for any and all advice, I greatly appreciate it!

Chappy P!!

The ink on the codex is still drying, these are questions that are best answered through play testing.

Sentinels are not bad as Multilaser platforms, as well as giving tanks cover saves. The basic 35 pointer is the way to go imho, or perhaps even the Autocannon variant.

As far as Platoons, either AC/GL or AC/Plasma is the way to go.

1) The standard multi-laser is fine for throwing out some firepower turn 1. Add in 10pts of camo netting per model & use thier move-through-cover & scout 6" move to get into cover for the first turn & it could be an effective unit. Heavy flamers will put out good dakka but you will fire them very infrequently due to range, even with a scout move.

Alternatively, outflank them (due to their scout rule). Flamers vs troops near board edges, multi-lasers on side armor & AC's on the same all become viable options. Camo-netting less important as they will simply avoid alot of fire by not being on the board for a few turns.

Also.. armoured sentinels will make great tarpits, just so you know. Walkers rock in close-combat, in terms of not blowing up, and with AV12 front armor - they can even withstand the occasional powerfist hit.

2) Autocannons & grenade launchers - Cheap, shooty. Lascannons & grenade launchers - More expensive but allows to multi-task into anti-tank roles with 'Bring it down'. Lascannons & plasma guns - most expensive by far but also the most deathly. But wasted with BS3. Keep with the either the 1st or second. Keep lascannons with either company command squads or vendettas (bs3 but twin-linked). Likewise keep plasma to vets - or better, executioners (which dont implode themselves).

3) What do you want them to do. Will you be running lots of infantry (on foot) - if so, keep them ranged (either in a chimera or with camo cloaks) with GL's & lascannons. You'll find that you'll need to equip a vox and a regimental standard if you choose this route, leaving only room for one heavy weapons team or two special weapons.

If your running mechenized infantry, then your company command squads can make use of thier BS4 & equip meltas. Or they can make use of their bs4 & the ability to get a medic & run with plasma guns! If either is melta is the case - they will need transports. Chimera or valkyries or Creed (whom outflanks them).

HtH's

Don't look at me. I haven't even got the Codex yet...

The biggest IG player around here doesn't have the new codex yet?

What is the world coming to?

They're taking a little longer than usual... though it may not be their fault. I did an order to GWUK at the same time and that hasn't arrived either.

Damn UK postal service. I've had stuff from the US arrive within a day...

It wouldn't hurt to buy from an LGS once in a while.

UK postal service is about as fast as BT service is...

Cheese Elemental wrote:It wouldn't hurt to buy from an LGS once in a while.

My LGS is a Games Workshop. 15 minute drive from where I live. When I move into my new place, my new LGS will be another Games Workshop, this time a 5 minute drive from me. Waiting a fortnight for the Codex is worth the 30% discount, especially when all I plan to use the Codex for is:

1. Fluff.
2. Rules stealing of anything good for the Warhammer 40,000 Revisited Project - and I didn't need to buy it for that and most of this new Codex is simply arbitrary changes to existing rules (changing a rule from one model and giving it to another for no good reason), bad rules (Ogryn, Storm Troopers, Penal Legion, Commissars, Voxes... etc. etc.), or things I don't want or need (Orders, Vendettas).
3. A sake of completeness (I buy most Codices).
4. My review which I'm getting daily PM's about (too much hype!).

H.B.M.C. wrote:4. My review which I'm getting daily PM's about (too much hype!).

The price of Fame ( or is it Infamy? ). Don´t panic. Remember to breath. Breathing is Important(TM). And yes, waiting anxiously your review .

Their base point value is that their cheap cheap cheap. Plus 3 only give one victory point. 110 points is not a bad way to spend for 9 multilaser shots. Their also annoying to deal with.


Keep them cheap as possible.

These guys are much better. I think the guy who runs it is called john. Friendly fella.

On the sentinel front id go with an Armoured sentinel with a multi-laser. the reason for this is you can lock up a large unit in combat because if they cant hurt your front armour that renders the unit worthless, as long as the unit is worth more than 55 points. on the weapon arrangements for command squads id advise a vox in each one with the new orders system. company standards seem to be a thing of the past and i wont use mine any more. for weapons ad take 1 melta to pop tanks and grenade launchers because they are very cheap for what they are.

If you're going to use sentinels give them the multi-laser, keep them cheap, and use them to take shots of opportunity. 6 Multilaser shots are great for killing the last marine, or taking a side shot on a vehicle, or outflanking to threaten their home objective. There are more effecient ways to get those things (chimeras, valkyries), but its still the best way to use sentinels. Remember: sentinels that are shot at are sentinels that are dead.

Line platoons should be armed to compliment the rest of the army, in inverse of the old days. Tanks, vets, and Valkdettas do a pretty good job handling anti-tank and anti0horde, leaving the line squads for anti-transport and a little anti-tank. I'd keep a good mix of auto-cannons and lascannons, taking plasma with the lascannons and whereever you can afford it with the ACs. GLs are cheap, and a 65pt AC/GL squad is the new 76pt HB/F squad, but a 75pt AC/PG squad is better at everything for only 10pts more. The more squads you take, the more you can arm without plasma, but if you're only dropping four squads, why not make them all dangerous?

Command squads fit two broad roles in the new book: that of melta gun toting veterans that can toss off orders (almost always mechanized), or loaded up with advisors, the banner, and long range weapons to support a gunline (often mechanized). Again, the more gunline elements you have, the more value there is things like a banner. Orders become more useful when squads are combined up, as well. there is almost no reason not to include a chimera, however, as the protection is good and it widens the order bubble.

H.B.M.C. actually already passed the torch and walked away, and Polonius here has done a rather spiffing review of the entire army list. I would trust him or Sourclams, Dakka's current head of IG number crunching.

Razerous wrote:1) Also.. armoured sentinels will make great tarpits, just so you know. Walkers rock in close-combat, in terms of not blowing up, and with AV12 front armor - they can even withstand the occasional powerfist hit.

Do Sentinels have av12 all the way around? otherwise powerfists are going on the lower rear armor regardless.

Aftersong wrote:

Razerous wrote:1) Also.. armoured sentinels will make great tarpits, just so you know. Walkers rock in close-combat, in terms of not blowing up, and with AV12 front armor - they can even withstand the occasional powerfist hit.

Do Sentinels have av12 all the way around? otherwise powerfists are going on the lower rear armor regardless.

Armoured Sentinels have AV 12/10/10. Walkers are hit on the front armour in close combat, as long as they're not Immobilized.

First off thanks for all the feed back. I really do appreciate it.

Couple more questions if you all don't mind, especially you Polonius as if I do manage to get this army together you could be seeing me @ Warzone Matrix.

1) How many Sentinels should one have?

2) If I were to go with 2 Platoons, not mechanized, each with 2 squads; what would be the best weapon load out for them? Would 4 AC/Plas squads be decent? Should I go with all Las/Plas or mix and match? 1 squad with Las/Plas and 1 with AC/Plas?

3) Should the heavy weapons be the same within the platoon? Or would it be more beneficial to mix the heavy weapons in the platoon? For example Platoon 1 would look like the following:
PCS - 4 flamers
Squad 1 - Las/Plas
Squad 2 - AC/Plas

or

PCS - 4 Flamers
Squad 1 - Las/plas
Squad 2 - Las/Plas

then the second troop choice
PCS - 4 Flamers
Squad 1 - AC/Plas
Squad 2 - AC/Plas

Sorry for all the questions, I am in the process of building a catachan guard army and I want to build it with as much flexibility as I can. I don't have a lot of money, so I have to try and tighten as much of this down before I go totally nuts with glue and paint.

Thanks so much,
Chappy P!!

MinMax wrote:

Aftersong wrote:

Razerous wrote:1) Also.. armoured sentinels will make great tarpits, just so you know. Walkers rock in close-combat, in terms of not blowing up, and with AV12 front armor - they can even withstand the occasional powerfist hit.

Do Sentinels have av12 all the way around? otherwise powerfists are going on the lower rear armor regardless.

Armoured Sentinels have AV 12/10/10. Walkers are hit on the front armour in close combat, as long as they're not Immobilized.

Even immobilized walkers are hit on the front in 5th ed. The thing that immobilization does to walkers is they lose an attack and grenades hit on WS rather than 6s.

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:Hey All,

I have a couple of IG questions for all the veteran guard players.

1) I know Sentinel's suck, but I have 2 I'd like to put into a Catachan force I am working on, so my question would be what to arm them with?? I am going to make them the scout kind, but I just don't know how to arm them?

2) What weapon combo's should my platoons consist of? Autocannons and plasma? LasCannon's and Plasma? Are melta's the new plasma?

3) Command squads, what's the best armament to have on them? I know in the past it was good to arm a PCS with 4xFlamers? CCS armed with 2 Melta's, Vox and Banner?

Thanks for any and all advice, I greatly appreciate it!

Chappy P!!

mortars and granade launchers .........no bs to worry about and you can force your opponant to make bucket loads of saves (god of higher maths takes over then)
sentienals bogo basic is good enough unless you have a specific role for them
with the new orders system throwaway command squads are a thing of the past vox's are a must for all units banner is good but try to keep command out of harms way (there more use alive than heros)
if you have space leaman russ exterminator / leamanruss bog basic/leamanruss demolisher is an awsome combo good for anything

captain.gordino wrote:H.B.M.C. actually already passed the torch and walked away, and Polonius here has done a rather spiffing review of the entire army list. I would trust him or Sourclams, Dakka's current head of IG number crunching.

No! Lies, lies! Lalala, I'm not listening! You can't trick me! He's going to write it... soon... you'll see. You'll all see!

willydstyle wrote:

MinMax wrote:

Aftersong wrote:

Razerous wrote:1) Also.. armoured sentinels will make great tarpits, just so you know. Walkers rock in close-combat, in terms of not blowing up, and with AV12 front armor - they can even withstand the occasional powerfist hit.

Do Sentinels have av12 all the way around? otherwise powerfists are going on the lower rear armor regardless.

Armoured Sentinels have AV 12/10/10. Walkers are hit on the front armour in close combat, as long as they're not Immobilized.

Even immobilized walkers are hit on the front in 5th ed. The thing that immobilization does to walkers is they lose an attack and grenades hit on WS rather than 6s.

Ayup - like I said.. walkers rock the awesome sauce in close-combat. I wish people would believe me. Even a powerfist within a squad wont guarentee its saftey from being tarpitted. Has to be armoured walkers as while AV10 (which = the standard sentinel of 10/10/10) is tough, its not immune to that all-important str 4 and powerfists will start having an easy time.

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:First off thanks for all the feed back. I really do appreciate it.

Couple more questions if you all don't mind, especially you Polonius as if I do manage to get this army together you could be seeing me @ Warzone Matrix.
1) How many Sentinels should one have?
2) If I were to go with 2 Platoons, not mechanized, each with 2 squads; what would be the best weapon load out for them? Would 4 AC/Plas squads be decent? Should I go with all Las/Plas or mix and match? 1 squad with Las/Plas and 1 with AC/Plas?
3) Should the heavy weapons be the same within the platoon? Or would it be more beneficial to mix the heavy weapons in the platoon? For example Platoon 1 would look like the following:

Squished for space purposes, sorry.

Squads of 1-2. Squads of more make it vunerable, purely because itll become a worthy target for heavy AT fire, which it wont stand up to for long. Keeping the squads small will make use of target saturation (msu).

Why all the plasma fire? Thats expensive, to equip to full platoons. Its also questionable, to equip gets hot! plasma fire onto BS3 t3 5+ sv models. Thats another thread entirely.

Lascannons & grenade launchers work well & work well relatively cheaply. Otherwise auto-cannons & GL's for all-roundness. Mortars & gl's if you wanna go cheap & stay at range behind cover.

Keep with groups of heavy weapons. Like 2 of one type & 3 of another (but yes, within the same Infantry platoon choice) which allows you to make use of the awesome combined squads rule. Protects those heavy weapons teams, makes issuing your orders easier (and cheaper) and protects the entire squad from morale. Watch out for assaults though.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

captain.gordino wrote:H.B.M.C. actually already passed the torch and walked away, and Polonius here has done a rather spiffing review of the entire army list. I would trust him or Sourclams, Dakka's current head of IG number crunching.

No! Lies, lies! Lalala, I'm not listening! You can't trick me! He's going to write it... soon... you'll see. You'll all see!

Of course he is dear. Calm down and go to sleep now, it's normal for children to take naps at my house.

I don't play Guard, but I really, REALLY like the idea of outflanking Autocannon/Krak missiles. Squad of 3 of them can pop in and waste the enemies biggest tank (barring a Landraider) from behind with a hail of S7/8. Then the enemy has to divert anti-tank fire to purge them. A win/win, eh?

Does an immobilized walker still stick enemys in combat?

H.B.M.C. goes on 40K Revisited? That entire forum's deserted.....

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:First off thanks for all the feed back. I really do appreciate it.

Couple more questions if you all don't mind, especially you Polonius as if I do manage to get this army together you could be seeing me @ Warzone Matrix.

Cool, I'm going to be able to game a lot more now in the evenings now that I'm done with classes. PM me sometime to set up a game.

1) How many Sentinels should one have?

Well, the cynic in me says "none," but going for best uses, it depends. If you're running scouts, I'd run three multi-lasers over any other combo for weight of fire and a small KP footprint. I'm not as bullish on relying on Sentinels in combat as some people, but if that's your goal 2 Armoured sentinels is your best bet. For armament, the multilaser is decent (but the same cost as a chimera), as is the AC or LC.

2) If I were to go with 2 Platoons, not mechanized, each with 2 squads; what would be the best weapon load out for them? Would 4 AC/Plas squads be decent? Should I go with all Las/Plas or mix and match? 1 squad with Las/Plas and 1 with AC/Plas?

It all depends on the rest of your army. If you're comfortable with the anti-tank that the rest of your list has (say with vendettas and melta vets), than AC/plas is a fine choice. Single lascannons in platoons aren't exactly rocking anti-tank, but they're good against MCs, T4 characters, and Better than the AC against AV12 and up. Either taking all AC/plas or two AC/plas and two LC/plas are fine options.

3) Should the heavy weapons be the same within the platoon? Or would it be more beneficial to mix the heavy weapons in the platoon?

In the past, it was sometimes beneficial to build each platoon as combined arms force for reserves reasons, but in fifth, that's far less of an issue On top of that, the combined squads rule favors homogeneous weapons. If you have two LC/plas squads join up, that's a very nice unit to give either Bring it Down or On my Target to.

captain.gordino wrote:H.B.M.C. actually already passed the torch and walked away...

Yeah, you wish.

Anung Un Rama wrote:

captain.gordino wrote:H.B.M.C. actually already passed the torch and walked away...

Yeah, you wish.

Not really...