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I wouldn't be upset or surprised if some people didn't take me seriously. In fact, I would be shocked if everyone took me totally seriously. It just seems that Chronos follows enough of rules for being a passenger that he can be assaulted like a passenger if his transport is popped.
In a tournament environment, I'm sure he'll be treated as a passenger for purposes of whether or not he can be assaulted. In a pure blind RAW argument, it appears you'll end up with an illogical conclusion, that seems contrary to what you'd expect to happen in a casual game.

No offence, but my Land Raider follows enough of the rules for Fast vehicles, does that mean it can move 18"?

No, it can't, because it is not fast.

Likewise, Chronus is not a passenger.

i know that this my stray into RAI, but when you shoot at a tank and passengers pile out, then you attack them, even if you can't see them before they escape, so you should be able to watch someone jump from a tank, and then assault them as you watch them jump.

statu wrote:i know that this my stray into RAI, but when you shoot at a tank and passengers pile out, then you attack them, even if you can't see them before they escape, so you should be able to watch someone jump from a tank, and then assault them as you watch them jump.

It's a good thing we play by the rules. Otherwise I would autowin all the games I play because I have an Inquisitor and I can just Nuke it from orbit.

I think the better way to state that is, "It's a good thing that I play by the rules as I understand them." Not everything has a RAW answer in the game.

Shall we all settle on he's a weirdo but since he exists as part of the Tank (till it dies) he then should count as being part of the tank's unit. He is not a passenger he is Part of the tank that can keep on going. So if I shot the tank i can assault part of the tank

Tri wrote:Shall we all settle on he's a weirdo but since he exists as part of the Tank (till it dies) he then should count as being part of the tank's unit. He is not a passenger he is Part of the tank that can keep on going. So if I shot the tank i can assault part of the tank

That's my viewpoint on it. YMMV.

Tri wrote:Shall we all settle on he's a weirdo but since he exists as part of the Tank (till it dies) he then should count as being part of the tank's unit. He is not a passenger he is Part of the tank that can keep on going. So if I shot the tank i can assault part of the tank

When he emerges he is not part of the tank though. He exists as part of the tank, then he becomes something new.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dietrich wrote:That's my viewpoint on it. YMMV.

Considering it it utterly wrong...

Gwar! wrote:Considering it it utterly wrong...

Calling other people wrong does nothing to build your position.

There is not a RAW answer for this situation. As I have said about other matters, if it's an issue, ask the Tourney Organizer. Preferrably beforehand. Get a consensus opinion in your gaming group.

Gwar! wrote:No offence, but my Land Raider follows enough of the rules for Fast vehicles, does that mean it can move 18"?

No, it can't, because it is not fast.

Likewise, Chronus is not a passenger.

Standard GWAR manuever... when no viable comeback is available... rely upon the absurd.

I spent hours yesterday and the day before explaining and bothering to reason with people, I spent ages writing up concise arguements, then a day later people come say the exact same stuff that I've already spent hours debating against, without furthering the point or bringing a new piece of evidence to the table.


Its no wonder Gwar just trolls people who disagree with him.

None of the arguements presented since I summed up the IC arguement a day ago have been based on any actual quotation from the Rules, they've al been based on Reason Logic and Common Sense, something that should not be used when debating something.

Whether the rules make sense or not is unimportant, it might be logical that Chronus is a passanger, but the fact is he's never been defined as a passenger.

Gwar! wrote:

Tri wrote:Shall we all settle on he's a weirdo but since he exists as part of the Tank (till it dies) he then should count as being part of the tank's unit. He is not a passenger he is Part of the tank that can keep on going. So if I shot the tank i can assault part of the tank

When he emerges he is not part of the tank though. He exists as part of the tank, then he becomes something new.

Then he becomes something new let me check ... No he just get his stat-line and some rules. "If Chronus' vehicle has been destroyed he has the above profile and following special rules ...." So clearly he must exist before the tank dies or there would be no point in switch his stat-line and rules on.
"Cronus leaps clear at the last second ..." (no screaming fluff its describing what is happening) "...when the damage has been resolved place him within 2" of the vehicles position." So Cronos exists in the tank and then he leaps clear (if only this could be taught to the rookies) where his stat-line and rules are switched on.

combo wrote:.

None of the arguements presented since I summed up the IC arguement a day ago have been based on any actual quotation from the Rules, they've al been based on Reason Logic and Common Sense, something that should not be used when debating something.

Whether the rules make sense or not is unimportant, it might be logical that Chronus is a passanger, but the fact is he's never been defined as a passenger.

I'll agree that Saz is beating a dead horse. It's been clear for quite some time that Chronus was not a passenger. Whether he is part of the unit was the lengthy debate.

As far as applying reason to the rules, how else are we to interpret them? It's pretty obvious you can't play by literal RAW. Half the rules in the game break down that way. In fact the original article that spawned RAW was essentially saying read what's written and understand what it says.

I think the people that take the strict literal isolationist (looking at every rule in isolation) view on the rules are doing the game a disservice. We have to look at everything in context with the rest of the game. English is too imprecise to do otherwise.

No one was ignoring the rules you quoted combo, an no one on the other side of the debate was posting the rules they needed because the ones they would have posted were already posted by you or Gwar. The debate was over in what way those rules applied to the situation. I don't think that's unworthy of debate.

Reading this discussion, I thought of the upgrade you can buy for Tau Monat Crisis teams, the ejection system.
When the Battlesuit (jump infantry) is destroyed, it is replaced with a model with a new profile, new type (infantry) and new rules.
Would you be able to assault that model after shooting at it? If not, why not?

RAW seems fairly ambiguous to me.
However, it does seem intuitive to treat him the same way as passengers of a vehicle that has been destroyed. If you still don't want him to be assaulted, place him 2 inches on the other side of your tank and they'll be >6 inches away anyway.

Given GW's writing style, the amount of legacy codices and the number of super special rules, I find it hard to comprehend why someone would steadfastly use RAW to a situation the rules were not designed for.

I'll say it again. Has anyone seen The Prestige? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0482571/synopsis). It will help with simplifying how the rule works. I could also summarise it with spoilers if no one wants to read the plot synopsis.

Yes I have seen the prestige, and I think its a fantastic way to describe what happens

I'm still sticking with the earlier assesment that Chronus is unique like no other in the game. Gwar and Combo have shown this to be true. The best advice given is to discuss it with your TO and gaming group to make sure you playing him by how you will be judged. I hope this topic dies soon.

As this thread has beaten the Dead Horse right out of existence in this universe, and propelled it into another where the laws of space and time are radically different from ours, it is time to move on.

(i.e., too many personal attacks now!)

Thread locked.