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BeRzErKeR wrote:

Psyker_9er wrote:Can an Ork dissolve itself into a billion tiny micro organisms each with completely different DNA coding that the original?

No, but then it doesn't need to.

Might not need too, but this ability is very freaking handy in a pinch, and the Orks will never be able to do it.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Psyker_9er wrote:Can a Mad Dok create a new species of Ork never seen before?

Sure, why not? Grotsnik is capable of replacing Ork brains with LIVE SQUIGS and getting a functional organism. Nobody really knows what Mad Doks can do when they set their minds to it.

That is just an Ork with a new brain, but still technically an Ork. It is true we do not know what a Mad Dok is capable of, though most of it just happens on accident... The same thing can be said about the Hive Mind, but the difference is: nothing the Hive Mind does is on accident.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Psyker_9er wrote:Can a Mad Dok sit back and merely think about a new life form and watch it appear from out of the Ork fungus?

No, that effect would require a whole lot of Orks all thinking about it at once, and probably they wouldn't bother.

Just one more thing the Hive Mind can do by will alone... Orks might be able to, more than likely not though, and it would be an accident that is too little too late

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Psyker_9er wrote:Can an Ork instantly convey all the conditions that caused it's death back to the Warboss for further study on ways to adapt?

No, but the Orks seem to do just fine without this particular ability.

When it is down to just Orks and Nids, every advantage the Hive Mind has that Orks do not, equals one more nail in the Ork's coffin lid

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Psyker_9er wrote:Can an Ork ever be anything but an Ork, no matter how much cyborg parts it has?

This is nonsensical. Can a Tyranid ever be anything but a Tyranid? Obviously not, it's a definitional paradox. Can one Ork be wildly different from another physically, even different enough to potentially count as a different species? Absolutely.

Well, in my opinion, "Tyranid" is a generalized term that simply describes the many races of creatures who are under the iron will of the Hive Mind. So the equal generalized Ork term would be "Greenskin". Yes, an Ork can die and release a spore that could be a different type of Greenskin... But they are limited to just the few types we have already seen... Tyranids can make a new race of creatures with different DNA codes unlike anything we have seen before... Yes we would still call that new creature a Tyranid, but only because it is ruled by the Hive Mind.

An Ork can and may make physical changes enough to where they could potentially be considered as a different species of Greenskin, but on the basic molecular level it is still an Ork with other similarities to an Ork. The Hive Mind can produce a new creature, with no similarities to any other creature with DNA coding different from any other creature, but the term Tyranid would still generally apply loosely simply because it is controlled by the Hive Mind.

BeRzErKeR wrote:
How about some counter-points;
1)Can Tyranids teleport huge numbers of fighters directly to the front lines, like Ghazghkull can?
2)Can Tyranid basic infantry survive in space?
3)Are there any Tyranids that can turn their enemies into helpless small animals?

1) Well, no... But thanks for bringing your biomass closer to us and saving us the trouble of tracking you down
2)Yes, I believe they can. Under the will of the Hive Mind the basic infantry can keep fighting long after they should rightfully have died.
3) Yes, compared to a Carnifex lots of enemies are helpless small animals. But on a more serious note, take a dip into a digestion pool and we can do one better than making you a helpless small animal.

BeRzErKeR wrote:
Not to mention, Tyranids have one enormous weakness that Orks don't share; synapse dependence. One lucky bomb takes out one Hive Tyrant, and a whole section of the Tyranid battle-line collapses. If an Ork Warboss is killed, yes, it'll provoke infighting; AFTER the battle is over. The orks won't bother to hash the chain of command out until they've killed everything that isn't green, whereas the Tyranids turn into animals as soon as the synapse chain is broken.

Even when a lesser Tyranid has lost contact with a synapse creature, they will still fight to the death and are still combat effective. By the time frame we are talking about, I'm sure the Hive Mind will have thought of many many different ways around this issue though.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just thought of another Tyranid creature that might be cool and could aide in the feasting upon the galaxy:

A shambling gelatinous blob made from the same stuff of the digestion pool, but living and mobile. Imagine it slurping and sloshing it's way across the battle field, gathering biomass as it builds momentum. Imagine an Ork boy cutting it in half with his choppa, and now suddenly there are two blobs the Ork has to fight. Each hack and slash just makes smaller blobs still trying to eat you. Shootas would be worthless because the bullets would just pass harmlessly through the blob. Flame throwers would only cook the outer layers of the blob essentially forming a protective shell. Once a glob of this stuff got on you it would start to eat you alive and never let go, growing bigger and bigger as it digests your flesh...

You know what? i'm having this same discussion with a friend of mine.

He supports tyranids, i support orks.

Why i think orks would win? first, they are orks, they always win with his logic. And second, they have something that tyranids have: Imagination and freaking WAAGH energy.

Warnolo wrote:You know what? i'm having this same discussion with a friend of mine.

He supports tyranids, i support orks.

Why i think orks would win? first, they are orks, they always win with his logic.

Actually, the Ork 'logic' of winning doesn't work against Tyranids. The 'if they lose, they won because they can have another go' turns into 'if they lose, they're sitting in a digestion pool waiting to be slurped up by a hive ship'.

Warnolo wrote:And second, they have something that tyranids have: Imagination and freaking WAAGH energy.

You can't say that the hive mind doesn't have imagination with a straight face. Some of the fethed up gak they've created needs serious imagination.

As for Waaagh energy, I don't see how that helps them 'win'.

As for Waaagh energy, I don't see how that helps them 'win'.

Orks have very few actual psykers (fewer than humans, at any rate), but each Ork has tremendous subconcious potential, which is precisely what allows much of their weaponry to work. Similarly, 'red ones go fasta' is a common principle of Ork vehicle design, despite the clear lack of logic involved. If such psychic power is condensed into a mob of Orks brimming with Waaagh! fury, there is very little they cannot accomplish (various accounts from the Black Library indicate that when in a full berserker rage, an Ork can lose an arm and continue killing everything around him). Now with a Weirdboy do channel that power into physical energy, "mosquitos" and Carnifexes alike had best take cover.

Weirdboys go insane when the enter the shadow of the warp.

I just thought of another Tyranid creature that might be cool and could aide in the feasting upon the galaxy:

A shambling gelatinous blob made from the same stuff of the digestion pool, but living and mobile. Imagine it slurping and sloshing it's way across the battle field, gathering biomass as it builds momentum. Imagine an Ork boy cutting it in half with his choppa, and now suddenly there are two blobs the Ork has to fight. Each hack and slash just makes smaller blobs still trying to eat you. Shootas would be worthless because the bullets would just pass harmlessly through the blob. Flame throwers would only cook the outer layers of the blob essentially forming a protective shell. Once a glob of this stuff got on you it would start to eat you alive and never let go, growing bigger and bigger as it digests your flesh...

A blob like that would require a huge amount of fluid in order to survive; if the Orks happen to be in a particularly warm area, this creature will begin to evaporate, or at the very least weaken. Further, a flame thrower would likely have the same effect, but even assuming it does form a protective shell around this blob, said blob will slowly suffocate within its new prison.

Also, how will it communicate with the hive mind? If it has a brain, it becomes an easy target even for Orks (it only takes one lucky shot to kill it, after all); if it survives long enough to actually reach the Orks, a quick choppa to the brain should disable it. If it does not have a brain, it cannot be relied upon to attack the Orks rather than the Tyranids, as it will have no synaptic link to the hive mind nor will it have any ability to recognize other Tyranids as allies. There is also an issue of how this creature can support itself; if it is single celled, it will become tremendously inefficient and die within minutes. If it has multiple cells, it will need a brain of some kind to control its movements, bringing us back to the previous issue.

Shrouger wrote:

I just thought of another Tyranid creature that might be cool and could aide in the feasting upon the galaxy:

A shambling gelatinous blob made from the same stuff of the digestion pool, but living and mobile. Imagine it slurping and sloshing it's way across the battle field, gathering biomass as it builds momentum. Imagine an Ork boy cutting it in half with his choppa, and now suddenly there are two blobs the Ork has to fight. Each hack and slash just makes smaller blobs still trying to eat you. Shootas would be worthless because the bullets would just pass harmlessly through the blob. Flame throwers would only cook the outer layers of the blob essentially forming a protective shell. Once a glob of this stuff got on you it would start to eat you alive and never let go, growing bigger and bigger as it digests your flesh...

A blob like that would require a huge amount of fluid in order to survive; if the Orks happen to be in a particularly warm area, this creature will begin to evaporate, or at the very least weaken. Further, a flame thrower would likely have the same effect, but even assuming it does form a protective shell around this blob, said blob will slowly suffocate within its new prison.

Also, how will it communicate with the hive mind? If it has a brain, it becomes an easy target even for Orks (it only takes one lucky shot to kill it, after all); if it survives long enough to actually reach the Orks, a quick choppa to the brain should disable it. If it does not have a brain, it cannot be relied upon to attack the Orks rather than the Tyranids, as it will have no synaptic link to the hive mind nor will it have any ability to recognize other Tyranids as allies. There is also an issue of how this creature can support itself; if it is single celled, it will become tremendously inefficient and die within minutes. If it has multiple cells, it will need a brain of some kind to control its movements, bringing us back to the previous issue.

It could just be like a starfish.

But then all of its other advantages disappear. For one, it would move rather slowly, and an Ork could easily hack off its limbs.

Shrouger wrote:But then all of its other advantages disappear. For one, it would move rather slowly, and an Ork could easily hack off its limbs.

No, I mean that it would be able to fuction like a starfish, but move quickly and gooey.

-Loki- wrote: Actually, the Ork 'logic' of winning doesn't work.

Fixed that for you! It's just a reflection of how free the species is of worrisome traits like fear and despair. Much like your feral tyranids.

Warnolo wrote:And second, they have something that tyranids have: Imagination and freaking WAAGH energy.

-Loki- wrote:You can't say that the hive mind doesn't have imagination with a straight face. Some of the fethed up gak they've created needs serious imagination.

As for Waaagh energy, I don't see how that helps them 'win'.

You can't say that the Waaagh doesn't help them 'win' with a straight face. Some of the fethed up gak they've done with it is seriously powerful.

You can't say that the Waaagh doesn't help them 'win' with a straight face. Some of the fethed up gak they've done with it is seriously powerful.

Exactly. Just as saying that spores kill everyone on the field (which all the Black Library novels indicate they do not...) for the Tyranids, so would it be extremely unbalanced to give every Ork feel no pain as well as an extra close combat attack for the duration of a Waaagh!, though both would clearly occur. An Ork mob in the throes of a Waaagh! rage can shrug off virtually any small arms fire and go on to destroy the enemy in close combat. Now, if, as -Loki- suggested, the Hive Mind were to dismiss the Orks as brute beasts without power, it would be in for a rather nasty surprise when a Weirdboy disrupts the synaptic link for an entire army.

Well i would say that if orks die then releases spores and the tyranid eats ork and other tyranids to replenish also in the codex of tyranids the stupidity and in fighting of the orks would lead to their downfall i think

plasma_puppy wrote:...the stupidity and in fighting of the orks would lead to their downfall i think

Dat's wot all da 'umies thought too. Just cause dey orks didn't talk all gud and proppa like dey is stupid. You'd think da boyz beating the everloving gak out of everything and anything would be enough for a modicum of respekt. But don't you mind dem, no Sorr, dey likes to underestimated, leads to a good larf all around when everybody else id dead.

the stupidity and in fighting of the orks would lead to their downfall i think

I'd refer to the arguments earlier in the thread, if I were you. Both points have been sucessfully adressed in favor of the Orks. But, as Scrabb so eloquently remarked, underestimating the Orks would actually help them. Given the prevalent "orks are stupid" argument, it seems the Hive Mind might make the same mistake.

Many are forgetting that often a time, a psyker, in this instance a weirdboy, would go insane, or become overwhelmed attempting to hold back the Shadow in the Warp.

That's very true. The Shadow in the Warp not only prevents ships entering or leaving the system, but also makes is very hard to use psychic powers. So far the only psyker able to do so has been Tigerius.

Shrouger wrote:A blob like that would require a huge amount of fluid in order to survive; if the Orks happen to be in a particularly warm area, this creature will begin to evaporate, or at the very least weaken. Further, a flame thrower would likely have the same effect, but even assuming it does form a protective shell around this blob, said blob will slowly suffocate within its new prison.

Also, how will it communicate with the hive mind? If it has a brain, it becomes an easy target even for Orks (it only takes one lucky shot to kill it, after all); if it survives long enough to actually reach the Orks, a quick choppa to the brain should disable it. If it does not have a brain, it cannot be relied upon to attack the Orks rather than the Tyranids, as it will have no synaptic link to the hive mind nor will it have any ability to recognize other Tyranids as allies. There is also an issue of how this creature can support itself; if it is single celled, it will become tremendously inefficient and die within minutes. If it has multiple cells, it will need a brain of some kind to control its movements, bringing us back to the previous issue.

Oh come on! Haven't you people seen "The Blob" movies? It had it's own theme song and everything:
"Beware of The Blob, it creeps
And leaps and glides and slides
Across the floor
Right through the door
And all around the wall
A splotch, a blotch
Be careful of The Blob"

As for needing fluids to survive, it wouldn't actually have to be "fluids" needed to sustain the Blob. Each time it sloshed along the ground it would be eating any plants, grass, sand, minerals, bugs, lawn furniture, dead bodies, spilled blood, etc. etc... It would dissolve, eat, and digest ANYTHING it touched, feel no pain, slip into any crack or crevasse, and be a mindless eating machine.

If a few of the other Tyranid creatures get in the way, no big deal, they still serve in battle as food for the Blob.

To counter your counter point about flame throwers: The Blob does not need to breathe. All the nutrients it needs can come from the spot of ground it is standing on. It could also perhaps eat a hole and tunnel under ground to come up underneath the Ork Boy with the flamer. If it leaves behind the outer baked shell the Ork Boy would never know what is happening. The dirt it eats between where it submerged and the distance to the Ork Boy would be more than enough to replace the biomass left behind... Then perhaps what ever blob residue is still stuck to the underside of the baked shell is sufficient to start eating that shell and make a whole new Blob again.

I noticed though, it seems you are trying to counter with scientific points. And although the points you are making do have sound logic behind them according to human knowledge: we are talking about science fiction. Kudos to you though, they are good points if we are talking about real life events.

However, if we can safely assume that Orks can accidently piece together advanced technology with out any blueprints or prior knowledge, then we can assume that the Hive Mind can purposefully put together advanced life forms with enough ingenuity that they don't just bleed out and die within minutes of being born... If the Hive Mind designs the creature to serve a particular purpose then rest assured the Hive Mind already thought of all the needed bodily functions to make sure that creature serves it purpose.

Personally I would like to see counter points more along the lines of what the Orks would do to combat the new threats being pumped out. When you where talking about Rok Cannons and the such, the counter points I made where based on Tyranid tactics. The conversation wouldn't have been very fun if I countered with stuff like: In order to propel a rock of such magnitude the Orks would need several small nuclear batteries calibrated to 7.5 gigawatts and each with an electric current of 7,000 amps blah blah blah you get my point...

Again, the points you are making have strong scientific reasoning behind them, and good job... But lets try to keep this on a science fiction level, and more along the lines of counter tactics. Pretty please!?!?

Again, the points you are making have strong scientific reasoning behind them, and good job... But lets try to keep this on a science fiction level, and more along the lines of counter tactics. Pretty please!?!?

*sigh* oh very well, if you insist...

In that case, I have some thoughts for some Ork technology that might help:

Using recovered astronomic arrays to bypass the Warp Shadow cast by the Hive Fleet; remember that Chaos will be much more active now that the souls of the IoM have been devoured. Said arrays, powered by the tremendous energy of Weirdboyz (note that each is significantly more powerful than most psykers of other races) could serve as beacons for the Warp, allowing a number of advantages:
1. Shokk Attack guns could be specially modified to attract and temporarily summon Daemons in the Tyranid lines.
2. It could be used to actually disrupt the Hive Mind's synaptic link (if it breaks through the shadow it casts, why not)?

Shrouger wrote:Using recovered astronomic arrays to bypass the Warp Shadow cast by the Hive Fleet; remember that Chaos will be much more active now that the souls of the IoM have been devoured. Said arrays, powered by the tremendous energy of Weirdboyz (note that each is significantly more powerful than most psykers of other races) could serve as beacons for the Warp, allowing a number of advantages:

Two problems. One, no such device exists in the fluff at the moment. The Shadow in the Warp effectively blocks all psychic energy. Two, you require Weirdboyz to actually use their powers to begin with, something that the Shadow in the Warp makes extremely hazardous. If they managed to use their powers initially, they could power such a device. But it would be extremely unreliable to use even at the best of times, and again, such a device hasn't been hinted at in the fluff.

In one of the Gaunt's Ghosts books (don't remember exactly which), an Ork Warlord filled a derelict ship with Weirdboys and Minderz and just left it in the Warp. When the Weirdboys detected an Imperial relief force approaching the system, they launched a massive psychic attack, which had the dual effect of dropping the Imperial ship out of the Warp and summoning a massive number of daemons aboard the Imperial vessels (the Weirdboys all died, of course).

While the dropping-out-of-the-Warp effect would be pointless against Nids, summoning a crapton of daemons aboard the Hive Ships would certainly be a useful alpha-strike, particularly as the Tyranids gain no biomass from fighting Daemons.

I'm on the last Gaunts Ghosts book right now, and I can say, that hasn't happened yet.

Also, the Shadow in the Warp is at its strongest around the ships, which are the things that project it primarily. The weirdboyz on that ship would have a worse time trying to use psychic powers than weirdboyz on the ground.

I'll consult my omnibuses, then. Something of the kind definitely happened, I just can't remember exactly where.

See, the thing about Orks is that they don't really mind dying. Yes, those Weirdboyz would have trouble using their psychic powers. Yes, there'd be horrific side-effects, probably they'd die. But a 100% fatality rate wouldn't stop the Orks from doing it! And if even one hive ship is taken apart by daemons, that's worth a few dead Weirdboys. Either the Nids have to delay to gather up and recycle the debris, or there's a few less gribblies to wade through, and either way makes it a little bit better for the boyz on the ground.

EDIT: Ok, it wasn't in any of the Gaunt's Ghosts novels, it was in the Ciaphas Cain books. Now let me just find the actual reference. . .

EDIT 2: Found it. It's in Death or Glory. The weirdboyz took out the Imperial navigators, and were omnomed by the daemons attracted by the massive psychic pulse of energy.

I remember reading that. I also recall that their ship was one of the luckier ones; they managed to make it out of the warp safely, but the psychic shock from the Weirdboyz (compounded by the Navigator's death) could also have torn the ship apart.

BeRzErKeR wrote:See, the thing about Orks is that they don't really mind dying. Yes, those Weirdboyz would have trouble using their psychic powers. Yes, there'd be horrific side-effects, probably they'd die. But a 100% fatality rate wouldn't stop the Orks from doing it! And if even one hive ship is taken apart by daemons, that's worth a few dead Weirdboys. Either the Nids have to delay to gather up and recycle the debris, or there's a few less gribblies to wade through, and either way makes it a little bit better for the boyz on the ground.

Not sure I follow that reasoning. If they die while doing it, then it doesn't work. That would certainly stop them doing it.

Also, you seem to forgot just how many hive ships there are. Fleets don't move around with only one. Also, the death of a hive ship sends out a psychic scream that tells the other hive ships in the fleet to calve. They're not going to bother recycling the dead hive ship - they just all birth new hive ships. Right away. Every hive ship. This hardly affects the fighting capabilities of the fleet either, since the hive ships aren't doing the bulk of the fighting. The swarms of drone ships do that.

Edit - I realize you might want a reference for this. 4th edition Tyranid codex, page 27, inset box. 'The Hydra Effect'.

The Spartans had a 100% fatality rate at the Battle of Thermopylae. They still accomplished what they set out to do; they delayed the Persians long enough for Greece to unite against them. In this case, if every Weirdboy on the ship is murdered by daemons immediately after launching their massive psychic blast, they all die; BUT, they still did what they set out to do.

Furthermore, if every hive ship in the fleet calves; Hurray! The Orks just tricked the fleet into wasting an ENORMOUS amount of biomass doing something that won't have much of an effect. Those extra hive ships aren't free; every ton of matter that goes into spawning a new hive ship is a ton that isn't turning into gaunts, carnifexes and tyrants on the ground.

Not to mention that a Hive Ship tends to have a fairly large crew complement of its own; it may not seem like much, but being short the few million Gaunts worth of biomass onboard could in itself be the difference between taking an Ork stronghold and being repulsed.

Shrouger wrote:*sigh* oh very well, if you insist...
In that case, I have some thoughts for some Ork technology that might help:
Using recovered astronomic arrays to bypass the Warp Shadow cast by the Hive Fleet; remember that Chaos will be much more active now that the souls of the IoM have been devoured. Said arrays, powered by the tremendous energy of Weirdboyz (note that each is significantly more powerful than most psykers of other races) could serve as beacons for the Warp, allowing a number of advantages:
1. Shokk Attack guns could be specially modified to attract and temporarily summon Daemons in the Tyranid lines.
2. It could be used to actually disrupt the Hive Mind's synaptic link (if it breaks through the shadow it casts, why not)?

Don't get me wrong, some science and logic are good to use as counter points. Especially since I have a tendency to ramble on like a mad man. Before, as an example, I can understand it may have seemed like I painted myself in a corner with that "blob protective shell" statement. Logically if the blob suddenly has a hard shell casing surrounding it, what is it going to do now? So it was good thing we cleared that up...

In response to your new guns:*pushes nerd glasses on to nose* Well, in order to punch through into the immaterial realm one would need a flux capacitor with a transdimension samoflange dongle calibrated to near perfect precision of 9 to the 17th power I joke, I kid...I'm a funny guy... Sorry, I will stop

Shokk Gun, is that the big gun that creates a small hole in space/time and shoots out snotlings at warp speed? If it is tearing a hole in the space/time continuum then perhaps it might be slightly modified to make bigger holes large enough to shoot chaos beasts at warp speeds. I don't think a Daemon Prince would ever get caught up by a gun like that; and if he did he would be the laughing stock of all the other Daemon Princes. But I think I see where you are going with this. If my memory serves me correctly, USING the Shokk Gun is just as dangerous as being SHOT with the Shokk Gun. It could possibly summon the warp beasts into your ship, or your front lines just as well. That is the problem with Ork accidental technology, it is an accident when it gets made, and if it works after that it is an accident too. And as I said before, nothing the Hive Mind does, is an accident.

As for breaking synaptic links, it is actually not that big of a deal if it does happen. Every Nid has instinctual behavior, thanks to the new codex this behavior is defined by two categories.
1) Feed (a.k.a. seek and destroy)
2) Lurk (a.k.a. hide and shoot)
The meaner Nids who lost synaptic link will still charge forward to chow down on the nearest Ork, which is most likely what the Hive Mind was telling them to do in the first place. The less meaner Nids, whose instinct is to Lurk, move towards the nearest cover and shoot at the nearest Ork... Which is most likely what the Hive Mind was telling them to do anyway. So either way, IF the synapse link is broken, the Nids on the battle field will still be out there trying to do the basic function they where put there for: KILLING... they will just be less organized about it.

Also, synapse has no effect on some Nids, like Genestealers. Perhaps by this point in the war, there will be more Nids with "brood telepathy" like the Genestealers.

BeRzErKeR wrote:The Spartans had a 100% fatality rate at the Battle of Thermopylae. They still accomplished what they set out to do; they delayed the Persians long enough for Greece to unite against them. In this case, if every Weirdboy on the ship is murdered by daemons immediately after launching their massive psychic blast, they all die; BUT, they still did what they set out to do.

You are misunderstanding the Shadow in the Warp. It doesn't kill you after you use psychic energy, it makes it extremely painful and unreliable to actually use it in the first place. They wouldn't actually get their psychic attack to work.

And I'm pretty sure the Spartans at Thermopylae weren't trying to harness psychic energy while under the influence of a race of galactic insects. I could be wrong though...

BeRzErKeR wrote:Furthermore, if every hive ship in the fleet calves; Hurray! The Orks just tricked the fleet into wasting an ENORMOUS amount of biomass doing something that won't have much of an effect. Those extra hive ships aren't free; every ton of matter that goes into spawning a new hive ship is a ton that isn't turning into gaunts, carnifexes and tyrants on the ground.

It's entirely possible for those hive ships to break off and form splinter fleets. It's not a good thing. Splinter fleet becomes as big as main hive fleets after harvesting enough worlds.

As to the biomass, do you not understand how much biomass the Tyranids have in reserve? The bulk of what they take from a planet isn't even used by the vanguard fleet. It's back in the depths of space with the bulk of the hive fleet that people do not actually see, sitting in hive ships that dwarf Imperial battleships.

The Ork Shokk Attack gun could also use the astronomic arrays to guide its shots; nothing too accurate (it could still miss altogether), just enough to target it in the general vincinity of the enemy. Assuming the gun is relatively far removed, it should have fewer difficulties than one might expect. I would imagine that roughly four times out five, the gun would hit more or less on target. The other one in five... let's just agree that other Orks will learn to give Meks a very wide berth (more so than usual).

Synaptic disruption may not lead to a complete rout, but it can do a number of things;
The 'Nid squads will be far less coordinated than usual, perhaps just enough to run for the nearest Gretchin Mob while Flash Gitz bring their weapons to bear. Every bit helps.

Also, I think (I am not certain, so please correct me if I am wrong) that being disconnected from the Hive Mind will stun most lower bio-forms for several moments, easily enough for an Ork mob to encircle and butcher them.

This may not be the weapon that wins the war, but it can certainly help, especially in desperate situations.

Shrouger wrote:Also, I think (I am not certain, so please correct me if I am wrong) that being disconnected from the Hive Mind will stun most lower bio-forms for several moments, easily enough for an Ork mob to encircle and butcher them.

There's certainly been no indication that this is the case in the fluff, at least that I've read.

I was going back and reading the 4th edition fluff, and the final few paragraphs are pretty bleak. It says that there's every indication of the current hive fleets being vanguard fleets for the main push. Now, consider that the Imperium is always said to have the largest organised armed forces, with the most vehicles and the greatest destructive capability. It says that the Imperium would been to increase its Imperial Guard recruitment by 500% if more Tyranids arrive, basically arming every man, woman and chile in segmentums Solar, Pacificus and Ultima, just to slow down the hive mind.