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MadCowCrazy wrote:I would hope we got some sort of model release with it, a plastic Repressor would be the easiest kit for them to pump out since it's just 4-6 pieces that need to be made into plastic.

Then again it all depends on what sort of "update" it is, personally the only thing I would expect GW to do would be remove the allies rule, remove the assassins, Inquisitors, IST and Karmazov without adding anything new or changing the points costs, not even for Rhinos. I would be really surprised if they added anything at all.

As would I. GW's PDF productions have always been lackluster.

Hopefully because they are too busy working on TTTTAAAUUUUU!!!!!!

AgeOfEgos wrote:All shooting armies are going to get a boost in 6th Ed.? Er?

You know, because shooty armies aren't good enough right now.

this sux, like many others im sure, i dont want to build an entire metal army. its expensive and a pain to actually build. faith getting nerfed, i might just use the old codex and build an army. sisters need plastic so bad too :(

ugh, i hated the ba gw codex, but i love the ba's just like i love the sisters. i really wish i could have the armies i love be my actual working forces, but its like my friend and his necrons... my favorite thing is that it seems they are basing something on the wd codex when it ships, seeing how many people pick it up. gotta tell ya that numbers gonna be pretty small and not represent the players out there wanting to play sisters. it feels like they are doing this solely for the gk's and the contradicting units.

Kilkrazy wrote:I reckon a good Sisters book plus revised models would sell pretty well. It's a different look and feel to an army -- better than another SM codex, anyway.

I think you're right. And 'Better than another SM codex' pretty well applies to any non-SM codex. There are no armies more deserving of a new codex than the SoB. A WD update, on top of being a slap in the face, is really just how GW chooses to tell us they're probably not getting a new codex for a long time yet... Which at this point is inexcusable. After the BA debacle, GW promised they'd never print another PDF army update. Guess they just meant for SMs...

Archonate wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I reckon a good Sisters book plus revised models would sell pretty well. It's a different look and feel to an army -- better than another SM codex, anyway.

I think you're right. And 'Better than another SM codex' pretty well applies to any non-SM codex. There are no armies more deserving of a new codex than the SoB. A WD update, on top of being a slap in the face, is really just how GW chooses to tell us they're probably not getting a new codex for a long time yet... Which at this point is inexcusable. After the BA debacle, GW promised they'd never print another PDF army update. Guess they just meant for SMs...

It really isn't a "slap in the face". Phil Kelly, responsible for the Dark Eldar Codex, has been dropping hints that he's working on the Sisters book now since he's "all Eldared out".

kenzosan wrote:my favorite thing is that it seems they are basing something on the wd codex when it ships, seeing how many people pick it up.

You may be on to something here. This isn't about doing a favor for SoB players, it's about finding a way to get WD to sell...

AgeOfEgos wrote:All shooting armies are going to get a boost in 6th Ed.? Er?

I'm pretty sure we can see the same treatment as we saw in Fantasy: You can now pre-measure shooting, probably everything, and you can always wound on a 6 and will always glance a vehicle on a 6. So your grots can now annihilate Land Raiders etc, then again that's a SM unit so all SM vehicles will cause electric shock to anyone who assaults them does 6D6 S10 Ap1 hits for every hit they take.

Kanluwen wrote:It really isn't a "slap in the face".

A bold statement. I'd put it to a vote among SoB players before saying such things...

Archonate wrote:

kenzosan wrote:my favorite thing is that it seems they are basing something on the wd codex when it ships, seeing how many people pick it up.

You may be on to something here. This isn't about doing a favor for SoB players, it's about finding a way to get WD to sell...

Yeah, I'm sure those ten SoB players are really going to make WD sales jump.

But seriously. If they were to be doing it as any kind of 'testing', it would be better to watch downloads.


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Archonate wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:It really isn't a "slap in the face".

A bold statement. I'd put it to a vote among SoB players before saying such things...

Would you rather have a quickly done codex ala Blood Angels or the craptastic Dark Angels book--or a Dark Eldar?

Kanluwen wrote:Would you rather have a quickly done codex ala Blood Angels or the craptastic Dark Angels book--or a Dark Eldar?

Dark Eldar seems to be the standard these days... But a WD update and PDF has proven to be a good excuse for GW to procrastinate.

Kanluwen wrote:

Archonate wrote:

kenzosan wrote:my favorite thing is that it seems they are basing something on the wd codex when it ships, seeing how many people pick it up.

You may be on to something here. This isn't about doing a favor for SoB players, it's about finding a way to get WD to sell...

Yeah, I'm sure those ten SoB players are really going to make WD sales jump.

But seriously. If they were to be doing it as any kind of 'testing', it would be better to watch downloads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Archonate wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:It really isn't a "slap in the face".

A bold statement. I'd put it to a vote among SoB players before saying such things...

Would you rather have a quickly done codex ala Blood Angels or the craptastic Dark Angels book--or a Dark Eldar?

first, your right. those 10 players that want an update. the rest of us wait for the real one.

second, it is a slap in the face to sob. daemonhunters, witchhunters, necrons and dark eldar have been ignored for so long. 2 of them got updates and 1 is so heavily rumored right now id rather not comment on it for this point. tau needs on as well imo but thats simply because the ig can out shoot the tau right now, and thats just, wow.

kenzosan wrote:

first, your right. those 10 players that want an update. the rest of us wait for the real one.

Uhhuh.

second, it is a slap in the face to sob. daemonhunters, witchhunters, necrons and dark eldar have been ignored for so long. 2 of them got updates and 1 is so heavily rumored right now id rather not comment on it for this point. tau needs on as well imo but thats simply because the ig can out shoot the tau right now, and thats just, wow.

I love when people use terms like "slap in the face" to describe their army being not updated for a lengthy time period, even though it's still pretty dang viable by most accounts. I'd rather get a "slap in the face" like that then an "update" like the Dark Angels or Chaos Space Marines books.

Going down the list: Dark Eldar have been in the works for a long time. That's because they didn't want to just remove the army from existence, without at least trying to salvage it.
Dark Eldar, by far, have gone and been the single best codex they've produced to date. The fluff is fantastic, the models are fantastic, and the rules are pretty good too.
Tau will always be outshot by the Imperial Guard. It comes from the fact that the Guard, as of now, will have more troops on the board than the Tau will.
Necrons are getting the same "reimagining" that the Dark Eldar and Grey Knights have received. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
Sisters of Battle are undergoing that same treatment now, and have been since after the Grey Knights book was released. Work started on it a month or so after GK, by all reliable accounts, with Phil Kelly helming the design.

I find it difficult to understand the sentiment here.

Why would the format in which a codex is published have any impact on the quality of said codex.

The perceived lack of quality in previous WD codices doesn't preclude the Sister's one being at least of passable quality.

It's not like it's being written by the dogs in the street. The same chap purportedly heading this codex has produced decent work in the past.

Kanluwen wrote:Going down the list: Dark Eldar have been in the works for a long time. That's because they didn't want to just remove the army from existence, without at least trying to salvage it.
Dark Eldar, by far, have gone and been the single best codex they've produced to date. The fluff is fantastic, the models are fantastic, and the rules are pretty good too.
Tau will always be outshot by the Imperial Guard. It comes from the fact that the Guard, as of now, will have more troops on the board than the Tau will.
Necrons are getting the same "reimagining" that the Dark Eldar and Grey Knights have received. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
Sisters of Battle are undergoing that same treatment now, and have been since after the Grey Knights book was released. Work started on it a month or so after GK, by all reliable accounts, with Phil Kelly helming the design.

This is all true... But it's also irrelevant to what we're talking about. We know the SoB codex is in the works, and going to be amazing. The problem is the 'when'... If they're releasing a PDF update, it's probably "not as soon as it should be."

Kanluwen wrote:

kenzosan wrote:

first, your right. those 10 players that want an update. the rest of us wait for the real one.

Uhhuh.

second, it is a slap in the face to sob. daemonhunters, witchhunters, necrons and dark eldar have been ignored for so long. 2 of them got updates and 1 is so heavily rumored right now id rather not comment on it for this point. tau needs on as well imo but thats simply because the ig can out shoot the tau right now, and thats just, wow.

I love when people use terms like "slap in the face" to describe their army being not updated for a lengthy time period, even though it's still pretty dang viable by most accounts. I'd rather get a "slap in the face" like that then an "update" like the Dark Angels or Chaos Space Marines books.

Going down the list: Dark Eldar have been in the works for a long time. That's because they didn't want to just remove the army from existence, without at least trying to salvage it.
Dark Eldar, by far, have gone and been the single best codex they've produced to date. The fluff is fantastic, the models are fantastic, and the rules are pretty good too.
Tau will always be outshot by the Imperial Guard. It comes from the fact that the Guard, as of now, will have more troops on the board than the Tau will.
Necrons are getting the same "reimagining" that the Dark Eldar and Grey Knights have received. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
Sisters of Battle are undergoing that same treatment now, and have been since after the Grey Knights book was released. Work started on it a month or so after GK, by all reliable accounts, with Phil Kelly helming the design.

im sorry i dont think i put that right. the wd codex is a slap in the face. i just tagged on there that i dont like a codex not being updated for so long. rules change, to not update codex's or atleast not even faq update is just bad.


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CyRevenant wrote:I find it difficult to understand the sentiment here.

Why would the format in which a codex is published have any impact on the quality of said codex.

The perceived lack of quality in previous WD codices doesn't preclude the Sister's one being at least of passable quality.

It's not like it's being written by the dogs in the street. The same chap purportedly heading this codex has produced decent work in the past.

for me, in the past if you post a poor codex in wd im not gonna expect better. same goes for writers of a codex, no proof of anything better then ill believe your gonna do it poorly. the big problem is sisters need a model update. its an all metal army right now. this is a big deal breaker for alot of players. its more expensive and is much more difficult to put together as well.

Archonate wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Going down the list: Dark Eldar have been in the works for a long time. That's because they didn't want to just remove the army from existence, without at least trying to salvage it.
Dark Eldar, by far, have gone and been the single best codex they've produced to date. The fluff is fantastic, the models are fantastic, and the rules are pretty good too.
Tau will always be outshot by the Imperial Guard. It comes from the fact that the Guard, as of now, will have more troops on the board than the Tau will.
Necrons are getting the same "reimagining" that the Dark Eldar and Grey Knights have received. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
Sisters of Battle are undergoing that same treatment now, and have been since after the Grey Knights book was released. Work started on it a month or so after GK, by all reliable accounts, with Phil Kelly helming the design.

This is all true... But it's also irrelevant to what we're talking about. We know the SoB codex is in the works, and going to be amazing. The problem is the 'when'... If they're releasing a PDF update, it's probably "not as soon as it should be."

And if they're releasing a PDF update to bring Sisters in line for the closing days of 5th edition, with the goal of Sisters being the first book released for the new edition(with rumors pointing towards 6th being late 2012, early 2013 and the gap between C:BA and the WD/PDF being about a year as well)--where's the problem there?

That's what we're getting as rumors right now. They line up fairly decently, which means I do not see a problem, at all, with this.

kenzosan wrote:im sorry i dont think i put that right. the wd codex is a slap in the face. i just tagged on there that i dont like a codex not being updated for so long. rules change, to not update codex's or atleast not even faq update is just bad.

Really? "Not even FAQ update"?
Codex: Witchhunters got a FAQ update in 2009. They also had their entire Codex put up as a downloadable PDF then, with the 'Ally' rules(what GW really wants to get rid of) removed.

I really hope it is at least two years before we see a 6th edition.

Kilkrazy wrote:I really hope it is at least two years before we see a 6th edition.

Me too, but these are the 'rumors' going around right now.

The DE and GK books gave us false hope. That's why this news is so painful. Looking ahead, it's hard to say whether we'd rather be the last book in 5th or the first in 6th. The thought I can't shake is that it took three years for BA to go from WD to dex.

Honestly, a white Dwarf update would be rubbish.

Manchu wrote:The DE and GK books gave us false hope.

How?
It's not like they said "After DE and GK, you're 100% guaranteed to get the Sisters of Battle codex".

That's why this news is so painful.

False hope from vague prophecies usually are when they don't come to fruition. I'm not really seeing how this is some kind of betrayal or anything, it's simply people going off false hopes.

Looking ahead, it's hard to say whether we'd rather be the last book in 5th or the first in 6th.

Then can my Dark Angels take your spot? I'd love to be the last book in 5th and get to have a power army for a few months.

The thought I can't shake is that it took three years for BA to go from WD to dex.

And from "underpowered joke WD article" to "people won't stop crying about it as an absurdly broken piece".

Kanluwen wrote:

kenzosan wrote:im sorry i dont think i put that right. the wd codex is a slap in the face. i just tagged on there that i dont like a codex not being updated for so long. rules change, to not update codex's or atleast not even faq update is just bad.

Really? "Not even FAQ update"?
Codex: Witchhunters got a FAQ update in 2009. They also had their entire Codex put up as a downloadable PDF then, with the 'Ally' rules(what GW really wants to get rid of) removed.

just a general statement. theres been rule changes that havent been addressed in some codex faqs. imo if you update the general rules then you need to address the specific ones either in a new codex or a new faq asap, not years after the fact.

You can keep the rulebook then, just give the poor Witch Hunter players their models. If anything you could justify them being Grey Knight inquisitorial henchmen.

CyRevenant wrote:
Why would the format in which a codex is published have any impact on the quality of said codex.

That's what I'm saying. There's no reason a codex published in the pages of WD and then made available for download as a PDF would have to have bad rules, bad fluff, and a bad army list simply because it was in WD. Seems like the naysayers are making the assumption here is that a codex that gets sent to a printer will automatically be better in all aspects merely because it is printed and bound.

I never paid it much attention... Beyond the lack of vehicle Access and Fire point rules, what was so terrible about the Blood Angels WD list?

insaniak wrote:I never paid it much attention... Beyond the lack of vehicle Access and Fire point rules, what was so terrible about the Blood Angels WD list?

It was a Jervis dex. Squads were 5 or 10 man (except Death Company and veteran assault squads). Nothing in between. It made it very easy to make lists to exact point values since everything was multiples of 5 points.

I quite liked it. All I really wanted out of the new dex was for assault squads to be able to take special weapons, trade their jump packs for razorbacks and squads sizes other than 5 or 10.

The WD army list is only a slap in the face if it is not the prelude to an actual codex in the future. Like Yak has pointed out all of these army lists have been in the past so it is only logical to think this will be the same here. The biggest issue along with the discrepancies created by codex grey knights is the lack of plastics which I hope is remedied although personally this won't be a issue for me until the actual codex comes has I just don't see a desire to start a army based on WD army list. This makes me think that the WD army list is just there for the current Sisters players and the discrepancies that exist. obviously the changes to be made will not be simple amendments or cuts otherwise we would see a FAQ erratas or what not.

Off topic I do hope we have a lot longer till 6th edition, I sympathise for the codex or codex's at the end of 5th but I do like the idea of at least getting all armies a 5th edition codex.

Hey there,

Long time listener, first time caller.

I think the big fear, and it is not unfounded, is that the White Dwarf "Codex" will nerf or take away from the Battle Sister's army and give us nothing in return.

The rumors are already strong that faith points have gotten a nerf and there is no indication of new models, only new limitations. We lose the inquisition and gain... what?

A lot of people praised the old Chapter Approved codex, but really it gave us the Exorcist and Frater Militia, both of which were mostly available through arcane and expensive mail order scams. We lost the militia when the Codex finally hit.

So we have two concerns really

1) nothing new, only losses and limitations to "bring them in line with 5th ed". and
2) Anything new we do get, we may not be able to keep when (and if) a full codex finally comes.

So are there any rumors to counter that? Anything that says the rules are new and fun? Otherwise there is not much to excite me in these rumors. And I am trying to be excited.

The rumors are already strong that Faith points have gotten a nerf in the full codex that Phil Kelly is working on.

Robin Cruddace is supposedly going through and trying to make a 'bridge-the-gap' WD article removing the parts from the WH codex that GW wants removed(allies, Inquisition) and perhaps adding a few new units that are going to be in the book proper, with Kelly looking over his shoulder and ensuring it doesn't get Cavatored.