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Hyd wrote:

DarthSpader wrote:but sheer mass of firepower took its toll.

Makes me wonder once more why the Apothecary seems to be so commonly overlooked.
Overpriced ? In a classic list I'd agree, but since a Draigowing is putting a lot of eggs in one basket anyway, mitigating one of the basket's three weaknesses looks like an option at least worth considering.

(By three weaknesses I mean weight of fire, anti-tank weapons, and Demolisher Cannons )

I agree with this, apothecary's make perfect sense for draigowing, played against one recently, and while understandably I lost I still destroyed the death star due to mass of fire (the rest of his army which I completely ignored finished me off)

Isseyfaran wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:Now this is just trolling, You obviously know that he can't have played with the Draigo wing for 10 years as the GK Codex has only been out for around a year now, so why say that?

The Draigowing is quite a competitive army, it depends on the person that is using it and his choices on supporting it are vital. A person who is new to 40k may be unable to make it competitive but Blackmoor's Draigowing list is really quite effective.

Then it is 666 who have just trolled.

And if a player is able to make a list competitive, then it's because of the player, not the list.

No, No and No, 666 Did not just troll, he said that Blackmoor has been playing in tournaments well for 10 years, you then questioned whether it was with a Draigowing list, in no way did 666 say that Blackmoor has been using a Draigo list for 10 years.

The player does not make the list competitive, the list can be competitive but the Player may not have experience in playing the list, this does not make the list less competitive. If a player is good enough he will beat a competitive list with a casual list, this does not make the casual list competitive. The list may be competitive but there are more factors involved such a player skill and dice roll etc. And you cannot doubt that Blackmoor is a skilled player.

Isseyfaran wrote:

junk wrote:
Draigo, when you beat Blackmoor in a tournament is when you'll have license to gak-talk him. Yes the list matters. It's a popular build because it's fun, financially affordable to new players, and provides an interesting challenge in competitive play for advanced players. Regarding your 'below 2k' complaint; the nova invitational 2011 was a 1,750 point tournament, and blackmoor finished with his draigowing, just behind Tony Kopach.

I think it's junk too. Blackmoor's one win don't prove anything. He also said footdar is competitive; I say it's crap.

Come back to me when he wins tournaments consistently with it.

Now if you tell me Tony Kopach is a talented player, I ll agree with you. He places well in competitive tournaments consistently.

To your foot Eldar comment I refer you to Greg Sparks on the US ETC team who did better with his foot Eldar than your hero Tony did with his space wolves.

If you wanted to know my tournament record with Draigowing all you had to do is ask!

These are only GT (5+ games) and 50+ players.

Wargames Con: Best General (consolidation bracket)
Bay Area Open: 3rd place
Nova Open: 2nd place
Empire Games GT: 1st place
Battlefoams Wild West Shootout II: 1st place

So those are my results in the last 6 months at the biggest tournaments.

Can't say that is not an impressive record... he will probably still try to dis it with some childish comment.

Its about what you would expect from the foremost Draigowing expert.

Of course!

Blackmoor wrote:Its about what you would expect from the foremost Draigowing expert.

Please refrain from such arrogant comments, sir.

Roboute wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:Its about what you would expect from the foremost Draigowing expert.

Please refrain from such arrogant comments, sir.

Disclaimer: As anyone who has read the previous page should realize, my above statement was sarcasm.

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Roboute wrote:Disclaimer: As anyone who has read the previous page should realize, my above statement was sarcasm.

It was funny! : )

Probably was a good idea to post the disclaimer to help prevent more nerdrage.

Post deleted for rudeness. If you are incapable of debating politely and without making needless personal attacks then don't post.

Reds8n

Should change the title of this thread to
"Subject: How do you beat a 2k Draigo list player into the ground"

Eh the threads been fairly useless since the necromancer raised it.

Isseyfaran wrote:No actually. You are the childish kid who can't accept alternative views. Don't put me into the same basket as yourself. Unlike you, I think on my own feet, play my own games, read other people's batrep with an open mind, and don't follow loudmouth celebrities blindly, instead of doing this - 666 : "Wow Blackmoor, you are sooo awesome. You placed 2nd in the Nova Open, so anything you touch must be awesome. I can even close 2 eyes and play the game with your list and still win "

Okay, now I'm just really not sure what kind of point you're trying to get at. Are you trying to say that Draigowing sucks and/or is not competitive? Are you trying to say that Blackmoor is an anomaly among Draigowing players?

If you're trying to refute the point that Draigowing is super awesome and that Blackmoor is a super awesome player, I don't know who you're arguing with. Nobody has said that Draigowing is the best list evar, or that Blackmoor with his Draigowing is unbeatable. It can be a strong list, and it has some good and bad match-ups. In the hands of a skilled general, it can place with the top competitive lists. Blackmoor usually gets brought up here because he is the most well-known player who has been successful with Draigowing at a tournament level, much like DE discussions inevitably result in DashofPepper being brought up at some point.

If your "alternative view" is simply that Draigowing sucks, you're certainly welcome to that opinion. There are a multitude of Draigo fanboys around the world lending credence to that view by playing Draigowing without a real clue how to use it.

Roboute wrote:Okay, now I'm just really not sure what kind of point you're trying to get at. Are you trying to say that Draigowing sucks and/or is not competitive?

That's what i said. You don't have to repeat. People can read.

Roboute wrote:If your "alternative view" is simply that Draigowing sucks, you're certainly welcome to that opinion.

You are right. I AM presenting my opinion, attacking the list, not anyone. If I am welcome to my opinion like you have just said, then what's your problem now. Or because you just can't help it? :-)

Roboute wrote:There are a multitude of Draigo fanboys around the world lending credence to that view by playing Draigowing without a real clue how to use it.

The fanbois - negative connotation*, according to what you have just describe are pathetic amateurs who ll never make it no matter what they use, because they just follow blindly.

Okay cool, Draigowing sucks. I don't know why I've been using it for so long. Glad thats settled. Anyone else have something to contribute or can we let this thread die?

junk wrote:Okay cool, Draigowing sucks. I don't know why I've been using it for so long. Glad thats settled. Anyone else have something to contribute or can we let this thread die?

I guess that's settled.

Just let this thread die since it was useless in the first place.


On a side note, I find "the foremost Draigo Wing expert" pretty hilarious. People call me "the foremost Tau expert" too.

Isseyfaran wrote:

junk wrote:Okay cool, Draigowing sucks. I don't know why I've been using it for so long. Glad thats settled. Anyone else have something to contribute or can we let this thread die?

I guess that's settled.

Just let this thread die since it was useless in the first place.


On a side note, I find "the foremost Draigo Wing expert" pretty hilarious. People call me "the foremost Tau expert" too.

I guess that's because no one else plays with Tau 'coz we suck so bad eh?

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Isseyfaran wrote:

junk wrote:Okay cool, Draigowing sucks. I don't know why I've been using it for so long. Glad thats settled. Anyone else have something to contribute or can we let this thread die?

I guess that's settled.

Just let this thread die since it was useless in the first place.


On a side note, I find "the foremost Draigo Wing expert" pretty hilarious. People call me "the foremost Tau expert" too.

I guess that's because no one else plays with Tau 'coz we suck so bad eh?

I think so too So suck less :-)

I think this thread has been ....flameballed?

Troll is obvious troll.

-666- wrote:Troll is obvious troll.

We can tell. Trolls are easily identifiable because they tend to resort to short phrases (they have no substance and therefore nothing to back up their own claim). This is what make them so obvious

Isseyfaran wrote:

-666- wrote:Troll is obvious troll.

We can tell. Trolls are easily identifiable because they tend to resort to short phrases (they have no substance and therefore nothing to back up their own claim). This is what make them so obvious

That 'We Can Tell.' Was too much of a short sentance for my liking

I know this thread is supposed to be dead and all, but I'd like to hear from someone what happens on the table to make Draigowing not competitive. Anecdotes would be great for now. I know they're supposed to be bad in objectives and all, but if you read good Draigowing players' batreps, they're not doing anything insanely special. It tends to be generally good play an intricate understanding of the rules. Particularly for ICs and what options there are for them, like adjusting their movement for certain effects on assaults for example. If the army works for these people, why isn't it working for your or your opponents, or basically for the "sheeple" that follow the Internet blindly that someone mentioned before.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Isseyfaran wrote:

-666- wrote:Troll is obvious troll.

We can tell. Trolls are easily identifiable because they tend to resort to short phrases (they have no substance and therefore nothing to back up their own claim). This is what make them so obvious

That 'We Can Tell.' Was too much of a short sentance for my liking

Of course. "Troll is obvious troll." - 4 words. I would say that's short too

And yours wasn't too long either?

If 2k Draigo is such a bad list, or a good one doesn't matter. How do you beat a 2k Draigo list? Perhaps one of the people saying it sucks know the secret to always beating it?

Oh and sorry, but I just wanted to post in Epic Blackmoore trollolol flame thread!

Nemesor Dave wrote:If 2k Draigo is such a bad list, or a good one doesn't matter. How do you beat a 2k Draigo list? Perhaps one of the people saying it sucks know the secret to always beating it?

Oh and sorry, but I just wanted to post in Epic Blackmoore trollolol flame thread!

The people who say that it is a bad list have no proof of it. It is easier to dismiss it and just say it is bad. The fact is that anyone who faces it knows just how hard it is to kill them.

There are no armies that can beat Draigowing easily, but there are a few that are ok at beating them (IG, DE). The rest of the armies need to use every tool in there toolbox an hope that they Draigowing player makes a mistake.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Isseyfaran wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:To your foot Eldar comment I refer you to Greg Sparks on the US ETC team who did better with his foot Eldar than your hero Tony did with his space wolves.

I am ignorant, never heard of Greg Sparks. Give me the name of his tournament you are referring to, and his battle reports. I won't comment on anything i don't know.

The ETC stands for the European Team Championship. If you do not know what is, then you do not know tournament 40k. It is something that the foremost expert on Tau should know.

I will overlook you not knowing who Greg Sparks is because it looks like you are not from the US.

Wargames Con is a crap tournament. I ve said that in my previous post in other threads.
Bay Area Open is alright.
Nova Open is competitive.

Don't know much about Empire Games and Battlefoams. Give me the link to the batreps and I ll read the batrep before I say anything stupid.

I read batreps on DraigoWing games, I analysis the list, i play tons of games, i join tournaments. I am not convince it is a good list.

As for some sacarsm. I remember how you got trumped by DashofPepper in a game. Shall I say how lousy you are as a player? . Or shall we blame the dice? OK, let's blame the dice, because you are the most AWEEEEsome draigowing player, remember?

And yes Dash of Pepper did beat me. We played in a mission where the person with the most kill points left alive at the end of the game wins. I had a chaos army with about 9 kill points and he had a Dark Eldar army with about 28 kill points so I knew that I was not going to win that game. See, I am not blaming the dice, and I was not playing Draigowing.

I did not know that tournaments that I played in needed you stamp of approval to be relevant. The funny thing is that Wargames Con is much more competitive than the Nova Open because the best players in the country are there. Again, if you make your claim as the foremost Tau expert you should not make statements without being able to back it up. I know you are just quote He Who Shall Not Be Named, but you have to do better then that.

Blackmoor wrote:The ETC stands for the European Team Championship. If you do not know what is, then you do not know tournament 40k. It is something that the foremost expert on Tau should know.

I will overlook you not knowing who Greg Sparks is because it looks like you are not from the US.

And yes Dash of Pepper did beat me. We played in a mission where the person with the most kill points left alive at the end of the game wins. I had a chaos army with about 9 kill points and he had a Dark Eldar army with about 28 kill points so I knew that I was not going to win that game. See, I am not blaming the dice, and I was not playing Draigowing.

I did not know that tournaments that I played in needed you stamp of approval to be relevant. The funny thing is that Wargames Con is much more competitive than the Nova Open because the best players in the country are there. Again, if you make your claim as the foremost Tau expert you should not make statements without being able to back it up. I know you are just quote He Who Shall Not Be Named, but you have to do better then that.

i wasnt talking abt etc but rather.the tournament which you think greg did well. But seems llike you Were talking abt the etc. In that case, batrep please.

I read about wgc, and its battles, and hold the view that it is not a competitive event. U are free to hold on to your own opinion though.



The dash example was an attempt at sarcasm. It simply illustrated that 1 or 2 placings and a few others at crappy tournaments dont prove anything about the list. I can always blame it on the missions or format like the way you did.

I didnt claim myself as the tau veteran, people did, just like how hilarious pple call you the draigowing player. So much for your comprehension skill.

I didnt say you or the tournaments you attend needed my approval, did i. Did i force my OWN opinion into you? I dont think so. Such a pity a grown up like you cannot accept differing opinions

Okay people, stop replying to Isseyfaran already. Some attempts were laudable but now that's just feeding the troll. It just brings more fruitless "discussion" because he's not seeking discussion. His posts are a succession of stupid taunts intended to make you react for his amusement, and I think you'll agree that this endeavour doesn't deserve one second of your time.