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ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Generally its a 10:1 ration for marines. So yeah a company is worth about a small regiment. Really the IG fights about 99.9999% of the Imperiums battles. Since marines are rare.
10:1 was the number given from a HH quote, the other common figure is 100:1. More than that is considered fanwank, less than 10 is considered silly.
Personally, I see a line marine taking 30-50 depending on the guard they fight, and a named character taking out just about infinite because named characters can't die.
Dr.Dakka wrote:
They are better trained than even Navy Seals, being taken at young ages and trained from there. So they are atleast par in fighting skill and aim to a Tactical Marine.
Except they don't get a good hundered years training before they hit the actual battlefield. Ergo, the tactical marine would be at least 10 times more experienced than a Spartan.
Sorry, chap, but that's just not true. The amount of years a SM spends as a scout is, as Grey Templar says, a hell of a lot shorter than a hundred years. In fact, it's somewhere between 4-10, as sources vary.
Also, training and experience are not the same thing. Whereas training can at least prepare you for a battle, it's got nothing on actual experience when it comes down to a fight to the death.
I stand by my original estimate. A SM could take on 2, maybe 3 SPARTAN-IIs and still stand a better than 50% chance of victory, though it would almost certainly result in the SM taking some serious wounds to do so.
Still, more kudos for the battle-brother in his chapter's annals, if he survives, so I don't think he'd mind.
Remember it goes like this
Scout ==> Assault Squad
or
Scout = Devastator squad
then...
Assault Squad ==> tactical Marine
or
Devastator = Tactical marine
Tactical Marine = Sternguard or command squad or sarge
Assault Squad Sarge = Vanguard Veteran
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Dr.Dakka wrote:
They are better trained than even Navy Seals, being taken at young ages and trained from there. So they are atleast par in fighting skill and aim to a Tactical Marine.
Except they don't get a good hundered years training before they hit the actual battlefield. Ergo, the tactical marine would be at least 10 times more experienced than a Spartan.
Sorry, chap, but that's just not true. The amount of years a SM spends as a scout is, as Grey Templar says, a hell of a lot shorter than a hundred years. In fact, it's somewhere between 4-10, as sources vary.
Also, training and experience are not the same thing. Whereas training can at least prepare you for a battle, it's got nothing on actual experience when it comes down to a fight to the death.
I stand by my original estimate. A SM could take on 2, maybe 3 SPARTAN-IIs and still stand a better than 50% chance of victory, though it would almost certainly result in the SM taking some serious wounds to do so.
Still, more kudos for the battle-brother in his chapter's annals, if he survives, so I don't think he'd mind.
Remember it goes like this
Scout ==> Assault Squad
or
Scout = Devastator squad
then...
Assault Squad ==> tactical Marine
or
Devastator = Tactical marine
Tactical Marine = Sternguard or command squad or sarge
Assault Squad Sarge = Vanguard Veteran
Are you sure about this? I always thought Devastator squads/Longfangs were reserved for some of the most venerated and battle hardened Space Marines.
Dr.Dakka wrote: They are better trained than even Navy Seals, being taken at young ages and trained from there. So they are atleast par in fighting skill and aim to a Tactical Marine.
Except they don't get a good hundered years training before they hit the actual battlefield. Ergo, the tactical marine would be at least 10 times more experienced than a Spartan.
Sorry, chap, but that's just not true. The amount of years a SM spends as a scout is, as Grey Templar says, a hell of a lot shorter than a hundred years. In fact, it's somewhere between 4-10, as sources vary. Also, training and experience are not the same thing. Whereas training can at least prepare you for a battle, it's got nothing on actual experience when it comes down to a fight to the death. I stand by my original estimate. A SM could take on 2, maybe 3 SPARTAN-IIs and still stand a better than 50% chance of victory, though it would almost certainly result in the SM taking some serious wounds to do so. Still, more kudos for the battle-brother in his chapter's annals, if he survives, so I don't think he'd mind.
Remember it goes like this Scout ==> Assault Squad or Scout = Devastator squad then... Assault Squad ==> tactical Marine or Devastator = Tactical marine Tactical Marine = Sternguard or command squad or sarge Assault Squad Sarge = Vanguard Veteran
Are you sure about this? I always thought Devastator squads/Longfangs were reserved for some of the most venerated and battle hardened Space Marines.
Longfang is for veterans, but the normal progression for SM is:
Codex Space Marines 5ed pg.60 wrote:Space Marines are commonly assigned to Assault Squads after exemplary service in a Devastator Squad, where they have garnered experience in holding their ground against any foe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/01 03:51:03
im2randomghgh wrote:@ the last part, about surviving planetfall, remember that they die in the game after fall 25 feet.
You can't include game mechanics as an argument. They are clearly only in place for playability. How much fun would the game be if every time you fell down you just had to wait for the game to end, or restart if playing a solo campaign?
We must instead go by the capabilities demonstated by cutscenes and novels. Spartan armour is at least as durable as astartes plate.
the red part, I highly doubt they would have WS 4 because as we can see in the game we see they have limited skill in melee and rely on the fact that they are stronger than grunts are tough to kill.
You know, I'm going to renege on my earlier comments on WS. Obviously, they are a full step above a simple IG trooper. WS4 is perfectly acceptable. It's a whole different paradigm though, where a Marine would be charging in with a chainsword, a spartan would simply be wrecking face with a shotgun.
"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?"
im2randomghgh wrote:@ the last part, about surviving planetfall, remember that they die in the game after fall 25 feet.
You can't include game mechanics as an argument. They are clearly only in place for playability. How much fun would the game be if every time you fell down you just had to wait for the game to end, or restart if playing a solo campaign?
We must instead go by the capabilities demonstated by cutscenes and novels. Spartan armour is at least as durable as astartes plate.
the red part, I highly doubt they would have WS 4 because as we can see in the game we see they have limited skill in melee and rely on the fact that they are stronger than grunts are tough to kill.
You know, I'm going to renege on my earlier comments on WS. Obviously, they are a full step above a simple IG trooper. WS4 is perfectly acceptable. It's a whole different paradigm though, where a Marine would be charging in with a chainsword, a spartan would simply be wrecking face with a shotgun.
That's shooting, not assault. Shotguns are a pretty universal and simple concept, and so are all fairly similar to a fair degree. Shotguns one shot spartans, and are much weaker than marines are tough and only have a str 4 ap- profile.
And also, stormtroopers are WS 3 and they are melee-ninjas. Read imperial glory. mid air assassination à la spartan. Spartans are shown to have very limited melee skills in the game, having one attack and not doing it terribly well, it sometimes takes more than a hit for grunts. They are shooters, really the parallels to stormtroopers are quite obvious, with only difference being that they might be S4. MIGHT be.
You can't include game mechanics as an argument. They are clearly only in place for playability. How much fun would the game be if every time you fell down you just had to wait for the game to end, or restart if playing a solo campaign?
We must instead go by the capabilities demonstated by cutscenes and novels. Spartan armour is at least as durable as astartes plate.
I am not talking about falling into bottomless pits. I am talking about falling a level or two and losing your shield.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/01 04:12:22
You know those are extremely powerful marine shotguns, they use manstopper rounds. The shotguns in halo will be like the shotguns in the imperial guard codex which are str 3 ap -.
I don't even care anymore who would win here, I only care about the unfair comparisons.
S 3 shotgun = 12G
Halo Shotgun = 9G
9G is > that 12G
Therefore Halo Shotgun > S 3
The limited capabilities of bungie in the area of melee incorperation into a game mechanic are noted. This is a shooter after all, and designed to be fun and playable in a world prior to Xbox live.
They stuck with the gameplay that worked because you don't fix what aint broken, but spartains have many melee attacks.
This is displayed in cutscenes, gameplay, and the animated series. And though the melee capabilities of a Spartan are not universal, eache Spartan being a specialist, a level of advanced proficiency is displayed by all of Noble Team in Reach.
This coupled with the fact that despite the limited game mechanic for melee, Mater Chief and Noble 6 both non melee specialists regularly defeat Elites who have a.strong blade culture in plasma sword fights. Elites are at the very least masters of the blade on the level of any master samurai, and hold these skills to be holy.
If you can defeat a master samurai, you are at least WS 4...
The game mechanic of 40k is meant to make any unit Atleast competitive against other armies. In my assessment I am simply applying fair and logical arguments to stats.
And seriously, Kroot are the single most useless backward ass race in 40k and they have WS 4... And Spartans would murder a mess of Kroot in combat Imo.
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Flashlight. Check.
T shirt. Check.
Wheelbarrow to cart your massive brass balls in. Check.
And the shotguns are 8guage, still going to be str 3. A lasgun blows peoples arms off, causing the bodies moisture to boil and explode. And its only str 3. The system isnt good at small varibles.
Elites are most definitely fantastic swordsman. Watch Cronicals... It is obvious.
8G 0o0 Wtfs?!
Thats huge!
That would blow a whole 3' in diameter in a person... Their top half wouldn't exist anymore...
Also blowing an arm off is child's play. A person .50 Cal round will rip the skin off a person after missing by 3 Meters. They pass through tanks with 2-4 inch armor plating at 2000 meters with relative ease. The .50 Cal sniper rifles,like the m82, are after all considered anti-tank weapons by Nato. It is because of this that it is currently Illegal to use a .50 Cal against humans in any facet of war.
Side noe the Coast Guard use .50 to pierce solid iron engine blocks to stop suspects.
This being said if a Usnc Sniper rifle is better, and we have stated it is, then you would need the.equivalent of 6-8 inches of solid steel, Imo, to stop it.
I don't know what power armor is rated to in inches of steel, but if it is less than 6-8" then the Usnc rifle should count as AP 3.
This should be especially disconcerting because the assisted rounds of the current .50 is used to regularly engage troops at over 1,600 meters in Afghanistan as we speak. The rocket assisted ones could maintain velocity and accuracy over much longer distances. I think we might be facing a range 60" Sniper rifle with AP 3 here, or atleast that is my math.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also if bolter rounds have so much power, why do they have so much trouble killing orks... I mean they hardly wear armor at all and in every marine game I have played Orks take two shots to drop...
I think someone at GW needs to sit down and fine tune gak till arguments like this have definitive enings...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/02/01 11:04:46
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Flashlight. Check.
T shirt. Check.
Wheelbarrow to cart your massive brass balls in. Check.
Dr.Dakka wrote:
Also if bolter rounds have so much power, why do they have so much trouble killing orks... I mean they hardly wear armor at all and in every marine game I have played Orks take two shots to drop...
Because orks are tough as hell to kill with any weapon. It's stated that an ork can carry on fighting effectively when horrendously injured and (a direct quote) "even for a short while after he is technically dead."
Add to this their lack of a fear of death, and you have an opponent who will stop at nothing short of being killed outright in his quest to kick your teeth in and jump up and down on your lifeless corpse.
This is why marines consider orks a worthwhile opponent, because they are built like brick houses and are ridiculously hard to kill due to their physiology.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/01 14:22:55
Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
Lets compare their foes for a second. Orks are roughly equal to brutes in terms of strength, toughness and combat prowess. Your average boy is probably better in each, but lets just assume for the sake of argument that they are equal. Now, space marines in both fluff and the game regularly kill orks in droves. Whereas Spartans, even the might Master chief, has trouble with just one or two, fluff or gamewise. I'm not going to comment either way, but I feel this should be noted.
Dr.Dakka wrote:I don't even care anymore who would win here, I only care about the unfair comparisons.
S 3 shotgun = 12G Halo Shotgun = 9G 9G is > that 12G Therefore Halo Shotgun > S 3
The limited capabilities of bungie in the area of melee incorperation into a game mechanic are noted. This is a shooter after all, and designed to be fun and playable in a world prior to Xbox live.
They stuck with the gameplay that worked because you don't fix what aint broken, but spartains have many melee attacks.
This is displayed in cutscenes, gameplay, and the animated series. And though the melee capabilities of a Spartan are not universal, eache Spartan being a specialist, a level of advanced proficiency is displayed by all of Noble Team in Reach.
This coupled with the fact that despite the limited game mechanic for melee, Mater Chief and Noble 6 both non melee specialists regularly defeat Elites who have a.strong blade culture in plasma sword fights. Elites are at the very least masters of the blade on the level of any master samurai, and hold these skills to be holy.
If you can defeat a master samurai, you are at least WS 4...
The game mechanic of 40k is meant to make any unit Atleast competitive against other armies. In my assessment I am simply applying fair and logical arguments to stats.
And seriously, Kroot are the single most useless backward ass race in 40k and they have WS 4... And Spartans would murder a mess of Kroot in combat Imo.
They would kill a fair amount of kroot, with kroot being fairly delicate and spartans being armoured, but kroot are stronger than orks, taller than space marines and lightning fast. They use blade almost to the exclusion of their guns. Kroot massacre IG in melee. And also, the reason you can defeat elites in the game in melee is because when you hit them, they are offended and take so long to bellow a challenge you can hit them again. Also because their AI is predictable.
Also, noble team doesn't really show melee proficiency except for Noble 6 (Who is on the same level as the chief) and Emile (who is a CQC specialist). Assassination don't count because they're stupid. The best way to silently kill someone is NOT to get a piggyback from them then feed them your knife. Unless they are so confused by the stupidity of jumping on their back that they forget to fight back/call for help?
Also, halo shotguns ARE superior to IG ones, but still pale in comparison to astartes shotguns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/02 00:00:07
DeadlySquirrel wrote:Yeah, I never got how Noble 6 is considered as good as the Chief... Made zero sense, he was inferior in every way possible and wasn't half as cool.
Because, being player controlled, he can take on just as many people as the chief. There was a separate category for MC and N6-Hyper-lethal.
Personally I prefer N6 to MC, don't ask why I just do. Maybe it is him having more dialogue? Makes him sorta not a faceless robot?
Dr.Dakka wrote: spartains have many melee attacks.
This is displayed in cutscenes, gameplay, and the animated series. And though the melee capabilities of a Spartan are not universal, eache Spartan being a specialist, a level of advanced proficiency is displayed by all of Noble Team in Reach.
This coupled with the fact that despite the limited game mechanic for melee, Mater Chief and Noble 6 both non melee specialists regularly defeat Elites who have a.strong blade culture in plasma sword fights. Elites are at the very least masters of the blade on the level of any master samurai, and hold these skills to be holy.
"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?"
Dr.Dakka wrote: spartains have many melee attacks.
This is displayed in cutscenes, gameplay, and the animated series. And though the melee capabilities of a Spartan are not universal, eache Spartan being a specialist, a level of advanced proficiency is displayed by all of Noble Team in Reach.
This coupled with the fact that despite the limited game mechanic for melee, Mater Chief and Noble 6 both non melee specialists regularly defeat Elites who have a.strong blade culture in plasma sword fights. Elites are at the very least masters of the blade on the level of any master samurai, and hold these skills to be holy.
Gotta point out. . . those videos really don't support your point.
Check out the good sergeant, and how his gunfire is utterly ineffective against the Arbiter. Notice how he gets nine varieties of crap kicked out of him, and eventually wins because said Arbiter makes the utterly inexplicable decision to pick him up by the neck and hold him, totally unrestrained, up close to those squishy, totally unarmored mouthparts.
Also notice how all those Elites charging forward in a straight line are the dumbest creatures ever to exist. No evasion whatsoever; these guys are the second coming of Leeroy Jenkins. And then, I mean, hell; one of them stabs another with his pike. It isn't like he didn't have plenty of time to notice "Say, that Spartan is holding on to one of my fellow warriors!" since the dude was moving at Dramatic Movie Speed (tm).
The second one does an excellent job of demonstrating how fast and agile Spartans are. . . nearly as good a job as it does showing exactly how pathetic the Covenant are.
Point one; they are running in a straight line, down a narrow corridor, taking no evasive action whatsoever, with scores (at least) of Covenant all firing at them, full auto. They are never hit. Not once. And no, this isn't evidence that Spartans are awesome, because with only a single exception (Spartan jumps over a Brute's line of fire) they aren't even bothering to dodge. The Covenant are simply incapable of hitting the broad side of a barn.
Point two; Elites attack, with energy swords. One of the Spartans promptly parries an energy sword. . . with his rifle. What that tells us is that energy swords are largely useless weapons. Riddle me this; if an energy sword can cut through Spartan armor, and Spartan armor can survive re-entry and protect the Spartan beneath it, then how is it that a rifle blocks it? And no, he isn't parrying the handle, the blade distinctly slams into the rifle and is held off.
In short; if that's what you're going with as an indication of Spartan combat prowess, sorry, the Space Marines will beat them like a pinata.
Dr.Dakka wrote: spartains have many melee attacks.
This is displayed in cutscenes, gameplay, and the animated series. And though the melee capabilities of a Spartan are not universal, eache Spartan being a specialist, a level of advanced proficiency is displayed by all of Noble Team in Reach.
This coupled with the fact that despite the limited game mechanic for melee, Mater Chief and Noble 6 both non melee specialists regularly defeat Elites who have a.strong blade culture in plasma sword fights. Elites are at the very least masters of the blade on the level of any master samurai, and hold these skills to be holy.
Okay so to prove your point, you post a video of spartans shooting shield-less elites with weapon that space marine armour (and even skin) is immune to, with the elites there clearly being clueless, and the one actual melee attack actually made was a swipe at the head of an elite aimed specifically at the thickest part of armour on it's head, which did absolutely nothing, with the elite not even being dazed..
And another fan made video of spartans running and shooting and fighting in melee for 2 seconds, that was, once again, fan made.
Not one of the tactics they tried against the elites in the first video would work against space marines. Running and jumping at them?
2 possible results.
1) they bounce off the Space marine.
2) They are speared on chainswords before they get there.
It would be like fighting Hunters with no skin exposed, and the hunters being as nimble and maneuverable as the Spartans, and more skilled, and with faster-firing weapons. And being able to kill you with their spit.
DeadlySquirrel wrote:Yeah, I never got how Noble 6 is considered as good as the Chief... Made zero sense, he was inferior in every way possible and wasn't half as cool.
Because, being player controlled, he can take on just as many people as the chief. There was a separate category for MC and N6-Hyper-lethal.
Personally I prefer N6 to MC, don't ask why I just do. Maybe it is him having more dialogue? Makes him sorta not a faceless robot?
Also, his death scene was the balls.
I prefer N7 myself.
But you hit it on the head, N6 is as good as the MC due to the player playing him in a game.
YOu do realize in some parts of the background (Most notably in the horus heresy) That space marines do use aerial movements it may be heavy armor but to them its like a midday stroll.
Terminators are not agile. Space marines are very agile. Their joints are extremely flexible.
Space marines can also spit acid so good luck spartans...
Spartan twos were almost completely annihilated I remember.
They had very few at the end of the war. And plus the fan-made video made. If you can use videos like that... Then I can use this...
Then...
That is a squad of them... Vs an eldar elite strike force.
Now lets remember. There are tons of lore of how op space marines are... Its actually funny they are ridiculously over powered.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
And even if we tone down marine achievements for hyperbole we still have insane killing machines.
Caliber of opponents is a good measure of strength.
Orks: It can take multiple bolt rounds to put one down. You can severe an orks head and graft it onto a new body and it will survive. The psychic Waaagh field also increases the strength of these beasts and lets them do impossable things, especially with technology. Space Marines can take on dozens of these guys by themselves, although they certaintly don't fight on the orks terms.
Tyranids: Endless swarms of gribblies, each much larger then a man, many larger then battletanks. Space marines kill these guys in their thousands.
Eldar: Human sized and about the same ability to resist damage, but backed up by latent psychic technology. These guys have guns that shoot molecule thin disks of diamond hard substances that can shred the human body in seconds. A marine is largely impervious to these guys weapons and the regular old Eldar will literally pop like a water balloon when hit by a bolt round.
Daemons: The will of dark gods made physical reality. Blades made up of the pure thought of a diety. Flesh that doesn't regester pain, damage, or succumb to injury. Creatures held together by pure will. Yet still Space Marines can and do slaughter these abominations, albiet at extreme cost.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
@Asherian Command- Those videos weren't fanmade. They're a bit of an anime and a cutscene from Halo Wars.
When do Space Marines do flips in the HH?
I don't know why you wouldn't be able to use those videos as proof of space marine prowess regardless.
How is spitting acid going to help the SM? If the SM is missing his helmet, the spartan gets a huge advantage.
@im2randomhgh- Since when has SM skin been immune to bullets?
You keep trying to point at gameplay limitations as evidence of spartan limits. This is analagous to arguing that anything that hits a SM will get through the armor a third of the time.
@ Berzerker- " Riddle me this; if an energy sword can cut through Spartan armor, and Spartan armor can survive re-entry and protect the Spartan beneath it, then how is it that a rifle blocks it?"
That would seem to imply that the stanard issue UNSC rifle is built to withstand exposure to plasma.
---
Space Marines are far too variable in their capabilities for this sort of contest. Sometimes they're invincible war-gods, impervious to the attempts of mortals to injure them. At other times they're getting snuck up upon and strangled with roots by lowly guardsmen.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
But why would the USNC rifles be resistant to plasma, but not the Sparten armor?
It seems a little silly to make a weapon that can deflect plasma when your armor is lacking there.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Perhaps the MA5 rifle was designed to be used as a last ditch protective measure against covenant close combat weaponry? Perhaps the cutscene animators didn't really think too hard about how this affected the consistency of the potentcy of covenenat plasma swords?
What exactly are you trying to prove? This does nothing to disprove the capabilities of the covenant plasma weaponry or the protective capabilities of the MJOLNIR armor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/02 05:56:38
b1soul wrote:Captain Titus vs. Master Chief would be a great fight (for 5 seconds before Titus wins)
This.
@im2randomhgh- Since when has SM skin been immune to bullets?
It was either in Flight of the Eisenstein, or in the novel before it where they were loading up the eisenstein, but while the Iacton (that was his name right? The half heard?) was fighting traitor marines aboard the ship, one of the humans fired a stub pistol at a space marine as a distraction, commenting that even with the armour it would not be able to hurt the space marine.
@im2randomhgh- Since when has SM skin been immune to bullets?
It was either in Flight of the Eisenstein, or in the novel before it where they were loading up the eisenstein, but while the Iacton (that was his name right? The half heard?) was fighting traitor marines aboard the ship, one of the humans fired a stub pistol at a space marine as a distraction, commenting that even with the armour it would not be able to hurt the space marine.
Not so much the skin but the bone that did it, and that has been contradicted by a lot of fluff since.
However, the point still stands - to an extent.
Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
@im2randomhgh- Since when has SM skin been immune to bullets?
It was either in Flight of the Eisenstein, or in the novel before it where they were loading up the eisenstein, but while the Iacton (that was his name right? The half heard?) was fighting traitor marines aboard the ship, one of the humans fired a stub pistol at a space marine as a distraction, commenting that even with the armour it would not be able to hurt the space marine.
Not so much the skin but the bone that did it, and that has been contradicted by a lot of fluff since.
However, the point still stands - to an extent.
Well not the entire space marines body is lined with bone. Therefore, for the stub pistol to be incapable of hurting a space marine, it would need to be a property of his skin being bullet-proof/resistant. Also, their fused rib plate would likely be able to deflect arms of an altogether higher caliber than a stub pistol.
Also, in the Dark Hunters short story in heroes of the Space marines, an unarmoured, crippled space marine takes an entire clip from a lasgun (individual shots can blow off human arms) to the abdomen without dying-or slowing. He proceeded to murder the men who had shot him with his bare hands. He also killed a traitor space marine and an enormous amount of humans, all after he was hit by thirty lasgun shots.
@im2randomhgh- Since when has SM skin been immune to bullets?
It was either in Flight of the Eisenstein, or in the novel before it where they were loading up the eisenstein, but while the Iacton (that was his name right? The half heard?) was fighting traitor marines aboard the ship, one of the humans fired a stub pistol at a space marine as a distraction, commenting that even with the armour it would not be able to hurt the space marine.
Not so much the skin but the bone that did it, and that has been contradicted by a lot of fluff since.
However, the point still stands - to an extent.
Well not the entire space marines body is lined with bone. Therefore, for the stub pistol to be incapable of hurting a space marine, it would need to be a property of his skin being bullet-proof/resistant. Also, their fused rib plate would likely be able to deflect arms of an altogether higher caliber than a stub pistol.
Also, in the Dark Hunters short story in heroes of the Space marines, an unarmoured, crippled space marine takes an entire clip from a lasgun (individual shots can blow off human arms) to the abdomen without dying-or slowing. He proceeded to murder the men who had shot him with his bare hands. He also killed a traitor space marine and an enormous amount of humans, all after he was hit by thirty lasgun shots.
The point I was trying to make was that 40K fluff is massively contradictory. There are also stories in which a lasgun has popped a SM after hitting him in the skull, and in the Ciaphas Cain stuff, a Khornate Berserker is killed by the eopnymous commissar - after, it must be said, having taken a lot of las-wounds previously.
Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
4000+
Thousand Sons 4000+
houses and are ridiculously hard to kill due to their physiology.
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
