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Can anyone tell me whats a better choice? I know Nobs are popular in almost every single Ork army ...
but the point cost says other wise on paper though?

Mega armor Nob = 40 points . TL shoota + PK + 2+ AS
Nob = 20pts + PK 25pts + TL shoota 5pts = 50 pts , and only 6+ AS

o_o what am i missing? the movement difference? but they sit on trucks anyways no?
how else do they survive foot slogging with 6+ as?


???

Generally speaking Nobs will have better then a 6+ armor save via the addition of eavy armor, cybork bodies, and perhaps a Painboy FNP as well (though any Warboss worth his salt will have either type of squad in a trukk or Battlewagon). Add in their ability to abuse the wound allocation rules and that it's much easier for them to have a better leadership and/or boss pole and you have a far more durable unit then the Meganobz.

Meganobz are a great value for the base armor save and PK, and are cheaper then a similarly kitted Nob (though most people only run about 3-4 Klaws in a Nob mob)

The big advantages of Nobz over Mega are the wound allocation, Painboy, Waaagh Banner, leadership, mob size that can fit in transport, and lack of needing Ghazz for some truly functional movement (heck, Meganobz pretty much by definition need a HQ attached to be competitive, Nobz don't).

Those are at least a few reasons many prefer Nobz over Meganobz - though the armored boyz do have a lot of fans and certainly some potent and useful uses within an Ork list, on a competitive scale the Nobz just generally edge them out.

they don't edge them out by enough to make the meganobz a poor choice though. remember, meganobz ARE more survivable against AP3+ weapons (close combat attacks included), and if you take Mad Dock Grotsnik as your HQ you can still give them cybork.

I faced off against a squad in a battlewagon... nothing to be sneered at.

I've yet to experiment with MANs but it's certainly the movement that leaves me put off.

Also I think this is for the 40k discussions board.

Moving this train to better forum

Horst wrote:they don't edge them out by enough to make the meganobz a poor choice though.

Oh, of course not, and I do believe I said as much. However they do edge them out enough that predominantly people tend to choose Nobz in favor over Meganobz.

Also, they *might* be more survivable vs. AP 3 shooting weapons (can there be AP3 close combat?) as a 2+ would be better then a 4+ FNP...but if they get a 4+ cover save and then FNP the Nobz will do better methinks. Also you also have to remember relative mob sizes, the potential leadership checks to be made, and the ability of the Nobz to dance the wound allocation shuffle to avoid removing whole models.

Don't get me wrong, I love me my Meganobz and play them quite often - but at a tourney I'll probably be packing up my Nobz every time.

Ahhh i see now .

Anyone want to do math hammer and work out the
2+AS vs 4+ AS w/ FNP for close combat?

ehh 5/6 vs 3/4?

Yikes...okay.

Two squads, 7 Nobz and 8 MANz (Nobz at 319, MANz at 320)

Nobz have a Painboy, 3 PKs, 2 Big Choppas, BP and Waaagh Banner and assorted ammo grot additions for their usual wound allocation fun.

I gave the MANz no upgrades.

They receive 30 AP3 wounds from a shooting attack (I dunno, tempest launchers, whatever. Really Boltguns would have the same general affect at AP4 considering Ork armor).

Manz will save 25 wounds and take 5 for the loss of 2 MANz and one wound on an additional MANz - they will need to take a leadership test at Ld 7 for 25% casualties.

The Nobz will save 15 wounds via a presumed cover save, and will save an additional 7.5 via FNP leaving them to take 7.5 wounds for the net loss of potentially one Nob and wounds on all of the others. They will not need to take a leadership test.

Without cover the Nobz will take 15 wounds which would wipe out the squad.

Clearly in neither situation do you really want to let a lot of Space marines double tap your expensive Nob unit - but if they have cover the Nobz are probably in a statistically better place to punish the marines/eldar/whatever then the MANz. Without cover the MANz will be looking a lot prettier.

There is literally a thread with the exact same title as this one in this same forum.

Don't forget, unless your converting some up, metal meganobs are expensive models in their own right.

GG

Put them with grotsnik in a battlewagon and they rule, by themselves they are a cheap threat, just don't ever lose combat.

The only problem with Meganobs is they don't get all the options.

Thor665 wrote:Yikes...okay.

Two squads, 7 Nobz and 8 MANz (Nobz at 319, MANz at 320)

Nobz have a Painboy, 3 PKs, 2 Big Choppas, BP and Waaagh Banner and assorted ammo grot additions for their usual wound allocation fun.

I gave the MANz no upgrades.

They receive 30 AP3 wounds from a shooting attack (I dunno, tempest launchers, whatever. Really Boltguns would have the same general affect at AP4 considering Ork armor).

Manz will save 25 wounds and take 5 for the loss of 2 MANz and one wound on an additional MANz - they will need to take a leadership test at Ld 7 for 25% casualties.

The Nobz will save 15 wounds via a presumed cover save, and will save an additional 7.5 via FNP leaving them to take 7.5 wounds for the net loss of potentially one Nob and wounds on all of the others. They will not need to take a leadership test.

Without cover the Nobz will take 15 wounds which would wipe out the squad.

Clearly in neither situation do you really want to let a lot of Space marines double tap your expensive Nob unit - but if they have cover the Nobz are probably in a statistically better place to punish the marines/eldar/whatever then the MANz. Without cover the MANz will be looking a lot prettier.

I am +1 for meganobz.

In your first situation; true you avoided the initial leadership test, but the second attack at that unit will probably wipe all of them out. Where as the meganobz will have a constant rate of loss.

Another note is wheeling in meganobz at least avoids the Noblocation of Wounds Hate'n usually associated with nobz. The only other problem I noticed was nobz vsing living ammunition; meaning, the strength of the hits are usualy always twice the nobz causing insta killing and the ap is usually 4 - 5.

I tried that nobz wound exploitation once against Tau and paid for it from the rail cannon blasts. Though oddly enough the nob bikerz w/painboy option keeps killin the Tau.

Can someone please list the rule or wargear and explain how it allows you to allocate your wounds accross models instead of taking complete models off for the Nobz Squads?

Thanks.

Visit your local rulebook or do a search for "wound allocation".

Steelmage99 wrote:Visit your local rulebook or do a search for "wound allocation".

I'd love to but I'm currently on a posting in Saudi Arabia and all my rule books are +3500 miles away and I won't be able to return to the UK for another 4 months to read / check them. Even in my job I'm still restricted to a weight limit on our aircraft and with the sapre weight capacity for 'personal items' I decided to bring some limited models and paints to build and make, rather than heavy rule books.

TheSecretSquig wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:Visit your local rulebook or do a search for "wound allocation".

I'd love to but I'm currently on a posting in Saudi Arabia and all my rule books are +3500 miles away and I won't be able to return to the UK for another 4 months to read / check them. Even in my job I'm still restricted to a weight limit on our aircraft and with the sapre weight capacity for 'personal items' I decided to bring some limited models and paints to build and make, rather than heavy rule books.

Basically ( from memory OH NOES! ) if the models in the unit all have different wargear , they can only be distributed one wound at a time.
Thus ( unless im mistaken ) it means a unit of 10 nobs have to lose 10 wounds of 1 wound each before the 11th (2nd)suffered wound
can be applied to a Nob to kill him.

Just to point out to the poster with the AP3 example, the nobs squad can take their feel no pain against AP3 fire. Also, you can give the squad a 5+ invunerable. So 30 wounds, save 10, 20 Feel No Pain, Save 10, ten wounds, spread out over the squad. The Meganobs get 5 wounds, which means 2 models removed.

Other things that make nobs good- they don't all have powerklaws, which can be good as PKs are slow. They move faster. They can get steadier leadership through bosspole re-rolls(this is a big deal). They can get access to a Waagh banner for +1 WS. They fit in trukks better.

While im gluing the nobs i cant help but wanting to ask...
with 10 nobs, it means they need 10 different unique gears ? how do you guys keep track who has what?
do you pick them up one by one and try to remember their wargears?

Hmm............

Well Luna, they have to be WYSIWYG so that shouldn't even be an issue.

this is how I'm running it

Three guys with Big choppas, one is an AoBR nob I converted (no other upgrades.)
one is a nob with one of the HUGE choppas and stikkbombs
the other has a bosspole that sticks out (and up).

Three guys with Power Klaws, one is a former kommando nob, (filling in as a nob with stikkbombs and PK)
one nob with PK and a bosspole that sticks out.
one nob with just a PK and slugga, no upgrade on his back.

And three slugga choppa ork nobs from AoBR, one holding a Waaagh banner that I'm trying to make, the other with a bosspole, and a third guy with no upgrades.

Oh, and a painboy...who sticks out like a sore thumb to be honest Just plan things out as you glue and you shouldn't have an issue.

Edit: actually can I do this? The RAW say the 'mob' may take stikkbombs, does that mean everyone has stikkbombs if one guy does? making each nob 21 points? it's a good thing I asked before I started painting

Edit2: I guess that's one thing regular nobs get over Meganobs MAN:"Oh, I attack at I 1? Well uh, so do you if you charge through cover!....wait, you can take nades? :( "

It's pretty simple to do with a 10-man squad:

Nob 1 - powerklaw, kombi-scorcha, waagh banner
Nob 2 - powerklaw, kombi-scorcha, bosspole
Nob 3 - powerklaw, kombi-scorcha
Nob 4 - powerklaw, tl shoota
Nob 5 - big choppa, slugga
Nob 6 - big choppa, kombi-scorcha
Nob 7 - big choppa, kombi-rokkit
Nob 8 - choppa, kombi-rokkit
Nob 9 - choppa, slugga
Painboy

There's a lot of ways to do it.

Centurian99 wrote:It's pretty simple to do with a 10-man squad:

Nob 1 - powerklaw, kombi-scorcha, waagh banner
Nob 2 - powerklaw, kombi-scorcha, bosspole
Nob 3 - powerklaw, kombi-scorcha
Nob 4 - powerklaw, tl shoota
Nob 5 - big choppa, slugga
Nob 6 - big choppa, kombi-scorcha
Nob 7 - big choppa, kombi-rokkit
Nob 8 - choppa, kombi-rokkit
Nob 9 - choppa, slugga
Painboy

There's a lot of ways to do it.

How do i model PK + kombi weapons?

It's an opportunity to display your conversion abilities.

Glue one of the power klaw blades to the bottom of the hand holding the kombiweapon

PK in one hand, kombi weapon in the other?

Dr. Orktapus! Power Klaws on one tentacles, shootas on the others, a burna in one more!

Orkestra wrote:PK in one hand, kombi weapon in the other?

Sadly, the kombiweapons in the Nobs box are a two handed affair...but I suppose you could try and chop one up, and reposition the arm with Greenstuff.

starbomber109 wrote:

Orkestra wrote:PK in one hand, kombi weapon in the other?

Sadly, the kombiweapons in the Nobs box are a two handed affair...but I suppose you could try and chop one up, and reposition the arm with Greenstuff.

Hmm ... ok i made one but thats all i'll do ... cut myself in the process . atleast it looks "ok" i think...

Luna I highly recommend using a wound allocation table (WAT FTW) when using large complex units. Basically I have table with each row started by a separate nob then one column for each wound; there is a 3rd column for the warboss should ya feel so inclined to field one with the boyz... It's a good idea since the warboss can soak S8+ wounds and really helps wif leadership when the number of models start to drop off. I mark off a wound for each unique model as they take them. It's very easy this way to keep track. I have found that placing dice beside wounded models can yield poar results.

Personally I think that mega armored nobz should have come with cybork body built in but it was not to be. You are paying the same exact points for an Imperial termie!!! WTF were tehy thinking? Anyways I would go with nob bikers as they have the most abilities and look very cool when well done. My next choice would be nobz in a battelwagon. I'm not a big fan of Grotznik (sorry MDG) so that really crimps my desire to field mega armored nobs. I converted some and they looked really cool... All if tehm were basically the same size as Ghaz but without cybork body I Just don't like them as much.

Remember to take that warboss... He will convert the unit into a troop choice and that is simply made of winsauce.

Good luck with your new project.

G