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After reading around for the last few days i've found loads (even more than usual) of hate towards GW.
What do you guys think they could do to get then out of the downward spiral they seem to be following?
I reckon 80% of people would stop giving them such a hard time if they were to just cut their prices by say 15-20%

Anyone agree that their major flaw is the stupidly high prices? or is there anything else significant they should do to win back the respect of all the veteran gamers??

There is nothing wrong with their pricing , if anything it shows that they can *adjust it for about 15% more.

Downward spiral yes for veterans , but to the company its not , they are making even more profit.

How will it change? I think atm , all their marketing strategy is pushed towards selling Space Marines to new gamers .
The SM concept is appealing to most people , and they make very good starter set / game sets due to low model count.

Thus this "gold mine" of an space marine army will inflate itself when in the future enough people realize everywhere they turn their head to = more spess marin army.

They should put a few sweets in every box of miniatures you mail order.

That's what Hasslefree and Heresy do and I love them.

If GW want to be loved by vets, they need to give them some love in return.

I don't think GW care about vets. They are only interested in churning n00bs.

Vets can still find stuff in the GW range to buy, of course, but they shouldn't expect their interests to be catered for specifically.

GW should make thier own discount card
How it works: The more you spend over time the more discount it builds on it.
Doesent have to be huge discount, but some sign that they care about regular customers would be nice.

Failing that, bring back skullz!

Actually I should move this thread to Dakka Discussions.

Kilkrazy wrote:They should put a few sweets in every box of miniatures you mail order.

That's what Hasslefree and Heresy do and I love them.

If GW want to be loved by vets, they need to give them some love in return.

I don't think GW care about vets. They are only interested in churning n00bs.

Vets can still find stuff in the GW range to buy, of course, but they shouldn't expect their interests to be catered for specifically.

100% correct, hassle free, heresy, all of the FOD compaines care about each and every customer. let me repeat that.... 'EVERY CUSTOMER,' (and they have alot) they share that care by listening to the customers, asking the customers questions, and rewarding the customers
If GW were to give even a little of what other companies do, it would make a world of difference.
Love in return, thats the ticket, so long as it aint Jervis on my leg, that is.

Hawkins wrote:
100% correct, hassle free, heresy, all of the FOD compaines care about each and every customer. let me repeat that.... 'EVERY CUSTOMER,' (and they have alot) they share that care by listening to the customers, asking the customers questions, and rewarding the customers
If GW were to give even a little of what other companies do, it would make a world of difference.
Love in return, thats the ticket, so long as it aint Jervis on my leg, that is.

That, plus if they would just, you know, actually LISTEN to its customer base now and again instead of making decrees from the Irvory tower. Not on price, but jeez, there's a host of things they could do. Especially stop being antagnistic to its customers base would help. The last fiasco with BB fans is just icing on the GW cake of what one means.


Many companies, smaller than GW, whether its wargaming or RPG's, listen a bit. PP and Paizo have/had open play tests for heavens sake. GW? this 3 month secrecy thing.

For me:

1. Start looking at the quality other companies are putting out, and adhereing to human proportions.

2. Start catering for adults, by including adult themes in their games.

3. Open a forum, and let customers talk to them about their products and possible improvements.

2. Stop being so bloody insular and protectionist of their patchwork product I.P.

4. Stop printing fluff....until such a time that they can get their gak together and make it coherent.

5. Stop churning out new rules, instead fix what they have, including Codex books, and if they are going to release new books, then balanced and all at the same time.

6. Stop calling it the "GW Hobby" and take their place alongside every other table top wargame as a table top wargame.

Kinda like Big Tabacco hu? what was that movie? with Russle Crowe? The Insider? GW must have been taking notes.... Course you wont get any of the creation side of things people to ever admit they watched a movie......

Edit: ummm you said smaller than GW, is there one larger?

one more thing. The Flash on the GW models have been defended as a natural part of the process from the company. well i remember the ol RAFM models that had none, and the spayglass models today that have none. (or so freekin small that it makes no matter.) So what gives? 3 Guesses as to the quality standard. (and if you dout look at the back of the legs of most of the termies, and the inside of the sheild hands of the gnoblers in pastics.)

In a word " Nothing"...
I sort of view my "relationship" with GW in much the same way I once viewed my relationships with women,basicly "you've fethed me over,and deep down I feel nothing for you,but I'm still getting somthing by associating with you ( in GWs case I get minis),but sooner or later,I'll get bored with you...or somthing better will come along,and I'll split."
I know,I have issues...

Treating their customers with respect would be a nice start.

I'd like it if they'd stop ignoring armies apart from a brief period every 5 years or so. The obvious exception to this would be their favourite armies that get collector miniatures and bits packs.

Lower prices.Space hulk that isn't limited to 5k pieces.

Yep, it's too late. Unless by some miracle they completely turn around and get their gak together, they are doomed to failure because even constantly selling starter sets to tweens will let them down in the end.

Many good ideas

Get rid of Jervis.

One thing that nobody has mentioned yet, but I think needs to be: start treating their independent retailers well.

The amount of product that is available to LGS is shrinking rapidly, as they've basically moved all non-plastic blisters into direct order, and their deliveries have seemed to be extremely inconsistent for the past 6 months or so (could be longer, that's just when I started noticing).

I realize that they're trying to push people to buy in their own stores in order to increase their profit margin per unit sold, but many U.S. gamers don't have a local GW store, and even if I did I would probably not want to go there, based on their sales practices.

Also, rather than trying to ignore that the competition exists, and trying to force the players to ignore that competition exists, they need to start actually making their product more competitive.

I discussed this with a friend who has a degree in economics, and while GW has been posting a profit recently, he claims that it's not due to greatly increased sales, but more due to cutting back on assets, and outsourcing their IP to other companies.

I can't see how this business practice is going to be sustainable, but apparently GW thinks it's going to be just fine.

It will bite them in the ass sooner, rather than later, I think.

I think for a lot of people, certainly myself, it boils down to simply being treated, in both word and deed, as more than just consumers of their goods. If you look at many successful companies like Coca Cola, Apple, IKEA, etc. they make their money selling stuff, but people identify very positively with the company. Look at Walmart and Target: two essentially identical retailers, one with slightly lower prices, one with slightly classier stores and friendlier staff. Which one is mocked mercilessly, and which is loved by shoppers?

GW's customer base is fickle and nearly impossible to fully please, to be sure, but many of their actions only hurt their long term reputation. Look at the debacle with the Bloodbowl forum jihad: why wouldn't GW have issued a press release explaining why it did what it, why it had to do it, and list the ways it was willing to help those sites conform to the new rules. It would have cost GW almost nothing, and made it appear less like a command and more like a dialogue.

That word, dialogue, is of course the main thing lacking. Every other industry lets people know what it's working in years in advance, but apparently GW can't tell us it's making new toy soldiers until 3 months out?

GW knows that people buy their stuff compulsively, even obsessively. Instead of cynically trading on that, why not trust in it, and include the hobbyists a little more in what's going on. There's a very strong chasm between hobbyists and the company that I don't feel is there with other companies.

Start printing chapter approved again. List armies in there that will not get there own codex. Kroot Mercs, Genestealer Cults, Lost and the Damned. Put in some fluff and a modeling section showing how the studio put them together out of pre-existing kits.

Reassign the resources used to generate new editions into developing a complete set of Codexes. Us veterans have multiple armies and would most likely get into even more. Make interesting and compelling new codexes - this has to drive sales of miniatures especially among the veteran buyers.
Continue to recruit new players using their tried and true methods. Also focus on current customers - you have them already, they've demonstrated a willingness to buy the product - give them more reasons to buy miniatures.
If I saw a new 'dex for an army I dont have - as a veteran gamer thats bought thousands of models.... think of the potential I represent to buy more.

Complete the codex list before going into a new edition.

I dont hate or love them yet I'm fed up with GW autistic behaviours.

In short they treat both veterans and ALL the internet folks like trash... They dont want them near because both can think for themselves and arent blinded by their propaganda agendas.
They simply reject feedback and as such it digs a deep hole between them and their customers... Dont think that that will change anytime soon.

I will buy the stuff i want from them but cannot promote them as a hobby orientated company.

I fully agree with navarro that I feel they treat their veterans like trash overall. In the past it was a great priviledge/honor to have your army seen in white dwarf. I remember as a kid loving to see all the Grand Tournement armies that people would spend upwards of a years working on in white dwarf, and their effort was well shown. Also yes the price sucks and no I think Luna is on crack to say they can increase it. Especially as well the worlds economies are hurting overall. Times like these people need to save where they can and if even for a year they lower prices I garuntee it would increase their sales as people will see it as OOO we can now afford a little more, and thus rush out to spend it. Heck even if they did it for a one month sale a polloza I think would do a lot for them overall. I understand they need the new gamers to keep their hobby aspect going, but at the same token they need to show some respect to the people who made their company what it is. Because you can have the best product in the world, but if no one buys it you just have sqwat!

GW are what they are, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

I'd hope for a few minor changes:
- better editing and proofreading
- a little more playtesting
- price freeze for a few years

More than that seems too much to expect.

I'd like a price freeze, too...I mean they're high where they are, but I'd feel so much better knowing that they wouldn't be going up for a few years at least.

It's so demoralizing watching everything go up, and up, and up...every single year. Better buy that tank now, it could be $10-20 more expensive next time you look at it. Codices too, I mean they're at least getting thicker now but can you honestly say they're worth $25-30 a piece? The rules still aren't written competently or balanced right, the fluff is ripped directly from your old codex, the artwork is even the same, and everything is in black and white. The "hobby" section has even been reduced to a simple gallery of painted models, no tips or hints on how to paint them like that, what colors to use, etc.

At this point, I seriously doubt that anything would be able to repair the rift that has been created since what...3rd edition?

That's like 10 years of pissing off people.

Nothing is going to be able to repair that.

Vladsimpaler wrote:At this point, I seriously doubt that anything would be able to repair the rift that has been created since what...3rd edition?

That's like 10 years of pissing off people.

Nothing is going to be able to repair that.

Eh, as far as the game itself goes, I think that a lot of people are happier with how the post-2nd version of the game is shaping up. I know that when I talk about 2nd edition, it's usually with much derision and laughter at how ridiculous the game was back then.

You can't please a forum community especially a nerdy one; go ahead and check out other mega-successful geek stories like World of Warcraft and you'll find the same kind of strong negativity/hate particularly from a passionate minority over and over again.

Definitely doesn't help that GW seems to already have a negative attitude towards us forum people to boot.

That said lower prices, tighter rules, and more/better models are usually at the top of the list for most but I'd still wager that the amount of negativity would remain especially on Dakka. Places like Warseer and BOLs seem to be pretty tired of reading such threads and close 'em once the bashing starts.

Yeah, that kinda gak used to piss me off so much about Warseer. "Uh oh, another Space Marine hate thread, better close that immediately!", but it's only Space Marines. You start up a Tau or Eldar bashing thread and it lasts several pages.

Needless to say I don't post there anymore. The only reason I found that place worth visiting was the rumors section, but seeing as how GW have plugged up all the leaks and no one can get pics or confirmation on anything anymore I've kinda abandoned the place altogether. Never liked BoLS much either. I think Goatboy's alright though, I like his artwork and attitude in general, but as for the rest of their articles I can't escape feeling like they're being paid by GW when they publish articles that basically amount to "Buy more models!"

Something of a GW apologist, so I'm not out of love with them just yet, but...

I'd echo JohnHwangDD's requests for better proof reading in Codexes and price fixing for a couple of years at least.

I'd also like them to get back to promoting the modelling side of the hobby i.e. rather than just making plastic kits, shows methods for making your own game boards and terrain such as houses, bunkers and rivers. Guessing however this would not go down too well with the beancounters...

hawkeye wrote:Start printing chapter approved again. List armies in there that will not get there own codex. Kroot Mercs, Genestealer Cults, Lost and the Damned. Put in some fluff and a modeling section showing how the studio put them together out of pre-existing kits.

No.

The biggest problem I had with Chapter Approved was the goombas who continuously tried to pass off their CA lists as something they weren't(ex: kroot mercs list where the aforementioned player would suddenly have a Shaper who was a shooting monster, when the turn before...he was a CC monster)...and then claim the Forge World Detachment 99 list is illegal(even without Valkyries/Vultures).

You want an army that won't get its own codex to have a list? Petition Forge World for them. Then petition for Forge World to knock off putting in overcosted gak units, and start using more of the Studio's "balancing".

And more seriously in line of this thread...

The people who have nothing but hate for GW won't like them, no matter what GW does. GW could give away free 10k armies to these folks, and they'd still find SOMETHING to whine about or say that Privateer/Hasslefree/Heresy/whatever does it better.