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vaatbak wrote:
Adaptus Mechanicus army,

HERE I COME!!!!!

You and me both!
I should have always done a counts-as army, whenever I want to play differently, it counts-as a different codex, supprise! XD

yeah, all the stuff we've heard so far points to all the units in the current daemonhunters codex being useable in the new grey knights codex in some form or other (except for daemonhosts? Not heard much about them actually).

So, I'm sure that IST etc etc will be perfectly viable options. What I'm hoping we don't see is a kind of 'either, or' scenario whereby you can only take GK as troops OR IST as troops or something like that.

Being newish to the game (been collecting GK since last september) I don't know whether anything like this 'either or' thing exists in other codices but I'm quite looking forward to being able to have a mostly GK army supplemented by IST and the various assassins. I think it's important that they make this possible and perhaps, expected. Right now pure GK aren't very flexible tactically at all and I want to play an army that's more flexible and interesting.

Deamon hosts are still in the codex. there still is the restriction that no GKs be present when you have one.


unfortunantly, i heard they still suck.

Does anyone else REALLY HOPE that Grey Knights have some level of resistance to Chaos Daemons Warp-Powers? I for one am pretty sick of having my GK Grandmaster being turned into a Chaos Spawn as easily as a common Guardsman would be.

you are remembering your Aegis rule right?

Grey Templar wrote:you are remembering your Aegis rule right?

the chaos daemon codex is a bit funky... some of the powers are considered psychic while others aren't so he wouldn't get the aegis rule vs them. i suspect he's having problems with that.

right.

Kanluwen wrote:

johnstewartjohn wrote:

CX316 wrote:I was kinda hoping that they'd pull something out of the fluff something along the lines of the Grey Knights being founded by Nathaniel Garro (Flight of the Eisenstein ends with 3 people being suggested as the beginnings of the Inquisition, Garro would make a perfect head of Ordos Malleus, Qruze for Ordos Xenos and Kendel for Ordos Hereticus... or something... meh)

Yeah they pretty much confirm that garro recruits the first grey knights in Garro - Oath of Moment.

Yeah, no it doesn't. It just "confirms" that Garro and the other survivors seem to be the ones who founded the Inquisition(or at least what laid the groundwork to later become the Inquisition).

I doubt we'll see Garro as a special character.

My mistake most be just a coincidence the word grey is used like five times in the audio book.

And no I wasn’t expecting garro to be in the new codex.

johnstewartjohn wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

johnstewartjohn wrote:

CX316 wrote:I was kinda hoping that they'd pull something out of the fluff something along the lines of the Grey Knights being founded by Nathaniel Garro (Flight of the Eisenstein ends with 3 people being suggested as the beginnings of the Inquisition, Garro would make a perfect head of Ordos Malleus, Qruze for Ordos Xenos and Kendel for Ordos Hereticus... or something... meh)

Yeah they pretty much confirm that garro recruits the first grey knights in Garro - Oath of Moment.

Yeah, no it doesn't. It just "confirms" that Garro and the other survivors seem to be the ones who founded the Inquisition(or at least what laid the groundwork to later become the Inquisition).

I doubt we'll see Garro as a special character.

My mistake most be just a coincidence the word grey is used like five times in the audio book.

And no I wasn’t expecting garro to be in the new codex.

As I pointed out elsewhere:

Just because he's wearing grey armor with no livery, at all, on it doesn't mean he "founds the Grey Knights". It just means he's wearing armor with no livery on it, ala the recently introduced "Blackshields" who come to the Deathwatch.

It’s not only the colour of the armour there’s lots of not very subtle references in the book. Like when MALCADOR tells him something along the lines that he stands between the light and the dark.

The words grey and knight are frequently used.

Erm, so what?

It's the Grey(actually silver) Knights.

Not the Grey Night.

And it's also worth, again, stating that Malcador at the end of "Flight of the Eisenstein" refers to a need for "individuals of an inquisitive nature".

I am excited for the new codex, which I will enjoy reading until the pages fall out of it, but I honestly am not astarting another marine army since I already have 2, and am starting a 3rd just because most of my deathwatch players wanted to be BA, I think its time to start a xeno army by now, one that is not nids.

Kanluwen wrote:Just because he's wearing grey armor with no livery, at all, on it doesn't mean he "founds the Grey Knights". It just means he's wearing armor with no livery on it, ala the recently introduced "Blackshields" who come to the Deathwatch.

Isn't there a bit of fluff that states that most Grey Knights do not adorn their armor without anything beyond the chapter symbol and hexagrammic wards, and only at Justicar/Terminator rank do they get a bit of heraldry allowed?

Not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't exactly disprove the theory, either.

bhsman wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Just because he's wearing grey armor with no livery, at all, on it doesn't mean he "founds the Grey Knights". It just means he's wearing armor with no livery on it, ala the recently introduced "Blackshields" who come to the Deathwatch.

Isn't there a bit of fluff that states that most Grey Knights do not adorn their armor without anything beyond the chapter symbol and hexagrammic wards, and only at Justicar/Terminator rank do they get a bit of heraldry allowed?

Not that I recall off the top of my head. And if you look, the standard brothers wear the heraldry of the Justicar.

Plus there's always the problem of the Grey Knights wearing bright silvered armor, chased with gold filligree for the hexagrammic wards.

Garro's described as just wearing primer grey Astartes plate.

chaos0xomega wrote:

bhsman wrote:

stickmonkey wrote:Well more is coming soon and I think the players who have been waiting will be happy.

I'm not breaking NDA to clarify what I've already stated in the past, so:

1. Expect a new codex which expands the fluff greatly.
2. Expect plastic Terminator GKs, in scale and compatiable with current plastic Teminators
3. Expect plastic power armor sized GKs, whether this armor is actually aegis, annointer, artificer, etc is a mute point, they will be in scale and compatible with all other standard sized marines
4. Expect new sculpts of existing metal character minis
5. Expect a few "new" plastic kits and metal blisters (for the specific rumored kits see the numerous other threads, I'm not going to reveal anything specific here)
6. This will be a wave release, not all of the units of the codex will be represented by models in the release or current ranges
7. IMHO, the models are some of the best sculpts I've ever seen out of GW.

Does this strike anyone else as being...well, generic? Like any of us could have come up with this list without being given any knowledge of what's being released?

He's just confirming stuff. He says he's under a NDA, meaning he must keep a lot of stuff to himself, while still being able to put forward some stuff, like new sculpts for existing character miniatures - wouldn't be an item in my list (or most people) if I was just making things up.

Besides, stickmonkey has already proven what he's worth. Well, maybe not to you, but there must be some reason people still hold his posts in high regard.

Once again, stickmonkey is as reliable as a redshirt (read: not reliable at all). Half of what he posts never comes to fruition or is just plain wrong, I doubt he is under any sort of NDA whatsoever, otherwise GW is feeding him a lot of misinformation (or maybe its just a general lack of information).

I would tend to agree on that. Stickmonkey is the same guy that said a couple of weeks ago that GK were getting pushed back 'til late summer at the earliest so GW could pump out more DE models. When you're that far off on a production schedule like that only a week or so before an official announcement,I'm sorry,but you're not really "In the know." This revised list of "rumors" is nothing that anybody can't figure out for themselves.

1.Expanded fluff-Pretty standard,and expected with the codex shift towards GK and away from =I=.
2.Plastic Termies-Yeah,I think we all could figure out the new Termies would be plastic.
3.Plastic PAGK-Once again,pretty easy to figure out,as the metal troops were one of the reasons for slow sales the first time around.
4.New sculpts for SC's-Well,Stern and Coteaz are the only SC's from the original codex,but it makes sense that Stern would get a new fig to scale properly to the new plastic Termies.
5."New" kits-Well,duh. Every army gets brand new units/kits with every new release.
6.Wave release-Pretty much standard practice by GW,now. Not surprising.
7.Great sculpts-Not surprising,seeing as how the metal GK's are some of the best sculpts GW has ever done.

Stickmonkey has said repeatedly that he is routinely fed minsinformation.

That being said... His original rumor set was pretty much dead on,(from what we can tell) with a bunch of stuff waiting on codex release to be confirmed.

Dunno why you guys have to bash on people who are trying their best to provide the community with information. It amazes me that people who try to help the community out by giving us info that we wouldnt already have get based for not being 100% accurate.

Whatever1 wrote:
Stickmonkey is the same guy that said a couple of weeks ago that GK were getting pushed back 'til late summer at the earliest so GW could pump out more DE models. When you're that far off on a production schedule like that only a week or so before an official announcement,I'm sorry,but you're not really "In the know."

That about sums it up there. To claim to be "in the know", make a supposed official claim, then have it be extremely wrong should prove once and for all he is a poor source.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wolfshadow wrote:

Dunno why you guys have to bash on people who are trying their best to provide the community with information. It amazes me that people who try to help the community out by giving us info that we wouldnt already have get based for not being 100% accurate.

The problem is...bad/wrong information is not a help at all, it tends to cause trouble. If he knows he is getting bad information then he should keep it to himself. Knowingly spreading bad/wrong information is just stupid.

Uh, Stickmonkey has always said to take what he says witha grain of salt, as GW routinely give him misinformation, and/or the possibility of what he sees being subject to change.

What he posts over @ Warseer is often taken to other sites without context.

The later in the game, the less he can say, or he just repeats what he said earlier.

Rumors are RUMOURS... not fact.
Anybody getting up in arms becasue someone git a rumor wrong, when GW routinely changes things at the last minute.... is more than a little silly IMHO.

I think people more have an issue with the fact that false information propagates itself (like you, yourself, pointed out with the out of context stuff being copy/pasted onto other sites). It shows that he is extremely arrogant that he posts any and all information, with the caveat to take it all with a grain of salt, just so his name gets spread around the intrawebs. You act like he is some prophet, trying to bring us enlightenment, when a true rumor monger gets legitimate stuff he knows is essentially true and posts it, or doesn't post anything. He was clearly fed completely false information, reported it as a viable rumor and then was caught on it immediately. That doesn't make him a bad guy, or a pariah, but it does prove that his rumors are pretty inconsistent and that people should probably stop spreading his word like gospel.

It's one thing to get a rumor about a release date wrong. But have you seen the stuff he posted in lieu of the Tyranid codex? Completely off base. I've yet to see anyone defend him with actual evidence of stuff he's gotten right, and not just by coincidence.

EDIT: Now with link!

EDIT: Quick change in topic, but what do you guys say about the metal vs. grey debate, ie, how to paint your GKs? I've been going back and forth on it.

I'm not sticking my head out for anyone, but there've been some posters in Warseer (can't exactly recall who, Harry/Hastings) that said that it isn't that unusual to change release schedules. We'll have to wait and see if he's wrong about the Sisters of Battle rumour.

And it's not so straight that old characters get new miniatures. Mephiston didn't, Calgar only got it because they gave him TDA, Dante didn't, Ragnar and Logan didn't. If Stern doesn't get an update, as I think SM implied, then I'll give you reason. I was fairly positive that he posted good info, but then again I can be wrong and got posters mixed up.

I don't believe he's doing it for "evil purposes" however. Saying that he gets more info right than wrong and shouldn't post is absurd, however. He's posting rumours, fer christsake, and I don't see how that can get some peopel into such an agitated state.

EDIT: He commented what he saw on design stages. It's kinda off to blast him for that... I mean, first GW is blasted because they don't reveal too much, and this guy gets flak because he reveals too much from his NDA.

I just think that some people are giving too much importance to miniature rumours, that's all.

It's more economical to give Stern new rules that make him viable than it is to make a whole new model. it just makes more sense make their current model sell more via the rules.

The only reason for a new Stern is if the new GK Termies look different enough from the old metal ones to warrant a redone model.

bhsman wrote:
EDIT: Quick change in topic, but what do you guys say about the metal vs. grey debate, ie, how to paint your GKs? I've been going back and forth on it.

ignoring the price for a second, I would like to say I hate metal miniatures, and would happily see every metal mini changed to plastic any day, theres no advantage.

Plastic is easier to glue and to paint IMO, YMMV. I welcome the change, since I plan to be termie heavy.

Jaon wrote:

bhsman wrote:
EDIT: Quick change in topic, but what do you guys say about the metal vs. grey debate, ie, how to paint your GKs? I've been going back and forth on it.

ignoring the price for a second, I would like to say I hate metal miniatures, and would happily see every metal mini changed to plastic any day, there's no advantage.

Plastic is easier to glue and to paint IMO, YMMV. I welcome the change, since I plan to be termie heavy.

He was actually referring to the paint colors for Grey Knights...
I.E. "Do you paint your Grey Knights silvered metal or flat grey?"

Kan's got it.

warboss wrote:so how exactly would you play those leman russ tanks some players currently have along with their inducted guard platoons complete with heavy and special weapon squads in with their codex GK stuff? some armies do indeed go *poof* with the loss of inducted/allied guard/marines.

So instead of having IG, DH, and IG+DH, you will only have IG and DH? If you have multiple LR tanks and multiple platoons outfitted with multiple support squads, you can't have that many points left over for much besides an Inquisitor and maybe some GKT's.

HBMC wrote:my Daemonhunters army ceases to be (aside from some generic Henchmen, Storm Troopers, and a Special Character to make 'em troops)

Looking at the current codex, we have the following non-GK units:
Inquisitors
Henchmen
Daemonhosts
Death-Cult Assassins
Officio Assassins
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers

As far as I know, all the current rumours point to assassins being in as well as inquisitors with a retinue option. That leaves Daemonhosts. You're losing daemons from your Daemon Hunter army. How does that equate losing your entire army? Will you have to run a special character? Quite possibly, but so what? Just rename the SC. Instead of Lord Inquisitor Henchmenastroops, call him Lord Admiral Herman Prescott. Model him with a weapon loadout that looks fairly similar to the SC whose rules he'll be using and you're in business.

Alternatively, run your IST's as an IG mechvet army. Your army isn't led by a Company Command Squad; it's led by Inquisitor Prescott and his trusty henchmen.

bhsman wrote:
EDIT: Quick change in topic, but what do you guys say about the metal vs. grey debate, ie, how to paint your GKs? I've been going back and forth on it.

I paint my Knights with metallics/silver, then give them a protective coat that makes them more shiny! Both metallics and matte grey are equally valid, it's mostly up to the painter.


With regards to the update, I'm excited, since I play pure Grey Knights. It'll be nice to have some plastic in the army aside from backpacks and land raiders. I can't wait to see some pictures of the new models.

I generally reserve my judgement on the actual codex for when I can take a look at a physical copy, but I hope it isn't a let down!

I'm pretty sure I'm going Dark-metallic with mine, with silver and gold highlights.

Think Boltgun with a heavy badab wash.

RustyKnight wrote:

warboss wrote:so how exactly would you play those leman russ tanks some players currently have along with their inducted guard platoons complete with heavy and special weapon squads in with their codex GK stuff? some armies do indeed go *poof* with the loss of inducted/allied guard/marines.

So instead of having IG, DH, and IG+DH, you will only have IG and DH? If you have multiple LR tanks and multiple platoons outfitted with multiple support squads, you can't have that many points left over for much besides an Inquisitor and maybe some GKT's.

i guess that's true if you only play 1000pt games or less but most people don't. Leman Russ tanks with sponsons only cost 170pts each so 340 there... most common platoon i've seen is with 4 squads and a heavy/special squad each = 410pts depending on the loadout (this is with flamers/grenadelaunchers/misslelaunchers). You can take 2 tanks and a decent sized platoon for 750pts which is half the size of the "standard" 1500pt game (most people around here play 1750-2000). In fact, you can fit in a GK grand master, a terminator squad, and two additional gk squads into 1500pts along side it. with the allies gone, this person now has a 750pt too-small-to-play separate IG army and GK army. if this change is true, it does affect people out there (not me personally) and denying that is foolhardy. is it a change for the better for the rest of us? who knows until the codex comes out.

wolfshadow wrote:Stickmonkey has said repeatedly that he is routinely fed minsinformation.

That being said... His original rumor set was pretty much dead on,(from what we can tell) with a bunch of stuff waiting on codex release to be confirmed.

Dunno why you guys have to bash on people who are trying their best to provide the community with information. It amazes me that people who try to help the community out by giving us info that we wouldnt already have get based for not being 100% accurate.

Except he has never fed us anything that was accurate that we didn't already know. Most of the stuff he says is more like wishlisting, and usually ends up being entirely wrong. The stuff that ends up being correct is usually generic stuff like the above which everyone knows but nobody has really thought about it because its so obvious. He's not really helping anyone, except trying to gain some internet street cred for himself.

Furthermore, stating that he is routinely fed misinformation is a cop-out. It's basically a "I'm covering my own butt because I know there is an extremely high likelihood that what I am telling you will never come to pass and I need a valid reason for it." Toy soldiers isn't an intelligence op or anything. GW isn't constantly making up false rumors to mislead everyone or to try and root out some sort of perceived leak or something. He is either getting information, or he isn't getting information. There is no misinformation, except for information that he receives that gets changed during the process of a development cycle.

Anybody getting up in arms becasue someone git a rumor wrong, when GW routinely changes things at the last minute.... is more than a little silly IMHO.

GW doesn't change things at the last minute. It takes 2-3 months (even longer for more advanced/larger kits) for the mold-making process to be completed (from the time the final design is submitted to the time the tooling is finished). Add at least another month of production time onto that in order for GW to produce enough kits to send out shipments to all the pre-orders/stores, etc. This means there is at least 4 months (a third of a year) from the time a kit design is completed to the time it is available for purchase by the public at large.

Likewise, rulebooks have a lead time for production. Granted, it is shorter than the lead time for a model kit, but we're still looking at a 3 month period from the time the text is locked in to the time its available for purchase. This means that if Grey Knights are coming out in early April, the model kits have been finalized, and while there might still be minor tweaks to the rules, chances are they were about 90% there months ago.

My guess is that stickmonkey is a second hand source. He most likely gets his info from a redshirt that gets to hear/see something once in a blue moon and either doesn't understand fully understand what he is seeing/hearing, or makes a bumch of stuff up to fill in obviously large gaps.

Ah, how I miss the days of Brimstone. Now HE was a true rumor-monger, reliable as reliable could be. I drink in his honor!