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iproxtaco wrote:But he isn't lifting the entire thing over his head, he lifts the back end, hence he isn't lifting the full weight of the truck so 2-3 tonnes is realistic.

try 5-8 tons,


its a Bulk Freighter. a 41st millenium Semi-truck, and it was most certaintly fully loaded as an evacuation was underway.

the full weight of the freighter was at least 10 tons, most likely more.

Toastedandy wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Which has proven to be wrong in various cannon sources.

Would the game not be canon? AFAIK the game came first.

Book came first, sorry.

iproxtaco wrote:And to clarify, I'm not trying to argue that a SPARTAN is stronger, simply that the two are a lot more balanced in their attributes than some people seem to think. At least debate the topic rather than jump to the assumption of that Space Marines are massively better due to your preferred fiction.

this is true none of this is as simple as SPARTAN powns Marine or Marine powns SPARTAN there are too many unknown factors to go by as neither are actually real or atleast part of the same world. Plus all of the points in this thread that actually had things to back them up point to an even match

Just make sure you guys are comparing fluff to fluff, shooting down other Spartans in the game is easy and they don't move nearly as fast as they are written to be.

Not to mention regular space marines are nightmarishly tough in fluff, but in TT you can lose tactical marines by the fistful to just about anything that puts enough shots out.

Try "a maddly revving supply truck. Laden with two dozen frightened citizens". A supply truck, and not a bulk freighter like you seem to think. Four Wheels, possibly even less than 2-3 tonnes.


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King Pariah wrote:

Toastedandy wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Which has proven to be wrong in various cannon sources.

Would the game not be canon? AFAIK the game came first.

Book came first, sorry.

Actually, you're right! Damn, The Fall of Reach came first, that's weird. I would guess that they were created along side, and it wasn't like the game came from the book.

daedalus-templarius wrote:Not to mention regular space marines are nightmarishly tough in fluff,

Unless its the BA Omnibus, where they die 'by the dozens' over and over again....even when there is only a single (depleted) Company present ... damn i hate those books.

Space Marines + vortex grenades = game over for Spartans

SPARTAN + M90 Tactical Shotgun = game over for Space Marine, as the shotguns awesome power transcends any mundane Warp technology.

iproxtaco wrote:SPARTAN + M90 Tactical Shotgun = game over for Space Marine, as the shotguns awesome power transcends any mundane Warp technology.

vortex grenades create small black holes which crush all matter if touched. They pretty much took them out of the game because they were way over powered. Nothing like having your general instantly killed by an assassin with vortex grenades and having not a single thing you can do about it. No saves at all, only dodges and the displacement field saved against it.

Now if that shot gun shot out mini singularities then yes, you would be correct.

Not quite, but it's power and profile are so awesome that it transcends such fickle unreliable sources like the Warp, and instead just by-passes any armour and logic due to the extreme collective cliche that the shotgun is the chosen weapon of the badass.

Dude, vortex shotgun. Awesome!

Omegus wrote:Dude, vortex shotgun. Awesome!

I think we just created the ultimate zombie survival weapon!!!! (evil laugh)

iproxtaco wrote:Try "a maddly revving supply truck. Laden with two dozen frightened citizens". A supply truck, and not a bulk freighter like you seem to think. Four Wheels, possibly even less than 2-3 tonnes.


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King Pariah wrote:

Toastedandy wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Which has proven to be wrong in various cannon sources.

Would the game not be canon? AFAIK the game came first.

Book came first, sorry.

Actually, you're right! Damn, The Fall of Reach came first, that's weird. I would guess that they were created along side, and it wasn't like the game came from the book.

Well, to be fair, the game did actually come first. It also came out about the time Star Siege Tribes did. Or rather it didn't come out, it had massive run ups in gaming magazines as the next revolution in online shooters. It was going to be covenant vs MArines, each side with custom weapons and equipment, and cross leaderboard play stats that meant you could try to revruit players to your game if they were good tank drivers or good snipers, etc. It looked EPIC to say the least.


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This discussion is of course pointless, as everyone knows a MI trooper would wipe the walls with an entire Marine chapter by his lonesome and the Spartan back-up he brought with him.

My pee-wee says your entire army is dead and I can move in about a week later and not have radiation fall out. Say hello to my friend the 30 second bomb and my Y racks...oh, you're already dead, sorry....

Seriously, MI = just about the most kick ### sci-fi super soldier ever. They'd eat Marines for breakfast (but then their foes, the Arachnids would barely hit a speed bump if fighting a Tyranid army).

First off, on armor/tougness, Ever heard of a SM surviving (Much less fighting with hardly any down time) after re-entry? Though this mostly because Spartan armor has a lot of stuff focussed on heat dissipation since they get energy weapons thrown at them all the time. (Mjolnir MK 6, not 5 btw).

Holotech and cloaking is only for SP3's so no go for SP2 (which to mee should be the guys we'r discussing here)

Also, for the people who don't know it MC was actually not the best Spartan, he's the luckiest one. He's pretty much a jack of all trades, master of none. Compared to some of the other guys.

Heck, Kelly(087) could sprint at 38MPH

Frederic (104) was a better strategist and leader then MC

Kurt(051) had retained his connection to humans making him the perfect trainer for SP3's. He also had an unnerving sixth sense like ability to detect traps etc.

Now the weirdest:

Maria(062) she actually went back to earth, helped creating the MARKVI mjolnir armor, and even got married and had a child.

Then theres Gray Team who were infiltration experts.

One thing though, if an AI is involved, an SM would have no chance at all, since some of UNSC's AI's are so insanely powerfull they could quite easily shutdown an SM's armor given the chance.

I wonder what a gravity hammer does to an SM.... Gravity shockwaves will mess up anything with their weight.

Also, interesting question, would a powersword be able to block an energy sword?

Powerswords use a force field of sorts, where as an energy sword is 2 spikes of plasma held in place by a EM field. It's pretty much slicing you with the heat of the sun.

I think one differnce between the two is mentallity though. This fight would never come to a 1v1 duel, since Spartan's don't do the whole honour jig. To quote MC: "No soldier should be honored for doing what's expected" Spartans would take every angle possible for eliminating an SM where they have an advantage.

Anyhow... I'd like to see Mgalekgolo (Hunter) fight with an SM... actually 2 hunters offcourse since they always come in a bonded pair.

Michigan state police?! Their not sc-fi.

Marneus Calgar with a power field from 2nd edition, could KILL ANYTHING and NEVER DIE. He is the reason I HATE Ultra Marines.

Mobile Infantry, original Star Ship troopers.

if you get to use gravity hammer, then SM get...ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT! lol.

but from what i have inferred from reading the books, playing the games is that master chief, although not lightyears ahead of any of the spartans, or the best at really anything, could own them.

I dont know why people keep quoting gravity hammers and energy swords when they are covenant weapons.

Its like comparing it with a Space marine with a nova cannon or void lance.

Since UNSC didn't make melee weapons.

The Master Chief was the best leader. Fred was the second best at everything guy, hence why he was picked as commander for operations the Chief wasn't involved in. Kelly was the fastest, Sam the strongest, Gray Team the best at Stealth, Linda the best Sniper, Grace the explosives expert, Li the best at zero-g combat. Most seemed to have their own specialization, but the Master Chief was the best of the best, the bravest, a superior leader to Fred, who sympathizes with injured teammates to much.

Actually Cortana picked MC for his "special attribute" as the leader.

iproxtaco wrote:The Master Chief was the best leader.

Not quite. Master Chief was the leader because he was the luckiest of them all. It was almost as if some intelligence was guiding him and letting him try again if he screwed up until he got it right.

Soladrin wrote:Actually Cortana picked MC for his "special attribute" as the leader.

Is it just me that thinks "special attribute" sounds a bit durty?

Cortana picked him as her carrier. Halsey pushed through the Chief as overall SPARTAN commander due to his actions during the orienteering mission in the valley on Reach.

Haha, I was talking about his luck

Halsey always had an eye on him too since the day she scouted him.

themocaw wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:The Master Chief was the best leader.

Not quite. Master Chief was the leader because he was the luckiest of them all. It was almost as if some intelligence was guiding him and letting him try again if he screwed up until he got it right.

Yes quite. Kurt was slated as the best candidate, the events on Reach during their training proved otherwise. The Chief was the best leader, and was picked as such.
Expand on this apparent second chances he was getting.

That could be right.. don't quite remember MC's actions during reach, since there wasn't much else then:

Spartans are on this planet...

GLASSED!

No, during their initial training. The Spartans were dropped into a valley, all 75, each with a different piece of a larger map. The last one to make it to the extraction point was to be left behind. The chief vowed not to let that happen, so organized the group, had them meet up, and lead them to the pick-up point. They beat the guards, who didn't identify themselves as soldiers, and they all escaped. Afterwards, Cheif Mendez made him overall leader for his actions. It was a typical oh you've broken the rules but you did something significant and amazing so have a reward moment.

I don't play Halo, but from what I'm told and as far as I see, they're just like regular soldiers, but with enhanced body armor that's probably equivalent to flak/carapace armor.

Space Marines are regular soldiers with enhanced bodily functions from the gene-seed that is implanted in them. Their average height stretches to about 7.5-8 feet, grow secondary (and sometimes tertiary) vital organs, and have an enhanced metabolism that allows them heal faster (think of Wolverine's Healing Ability, albeit probably half as fast). Their Power Armor deflects bullets like nothing, and even have a sustaining life support system inside should the Marine come under any kind of duress where his body can't keep up with (as if that was difficult enough to understand).

So yeah, I'd have to give it to the Space Marine. I'd think of a Spartan has a cross between an IG veteran/soldier. They're not the cream of the crop of their units, but like the backbone that supports his army along with the other rank and file troops.