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Wow. THere is a lot of railgun misunderstanding in this thread ^ ^. But that doesn't really matter. The issue isn't whether the tau can kill a titan, of course they can. The issue is: how would they do this in typical battlefield circumstances?

Assuming air-superiority, a large, railgun like device delivering a kintetic round into the atmosphere could easily take down a titan, or at least breach it. The energy output by such a round would be incredible.
On the ground, they could also pepper it with fire from multiple angles, hoping to cripple it with sheer massed firepower.
I, however, agree with an earlier post that sabotage/guerilla tactics are the most efficient way for the tau to deal with a titan.
A few stealthsuits with sufficient tools could cut through vital systems, crippling the titan. It would be difficult to do, but most likely it would be the most cost effective.
To distract whatever retinue follows the titan would be more difficult, and would require a large force capable of drawing attention. In order to minimize enemy firepower, this would probably have to consist of air-power, with long range artillery offering minor support, if at all. Drones would also be efficient choices, as they are small and annoying, but tactically insignificant to lose vs. massed firewarrior waves. Again, the point is they are a cheap diversion.
Really, a titan isn't too hard to kill (for an army), which is why they accompany large forces. They're superior firepower that requires a large amount of protection. No matter the armor or defense, it is always easier to breach armor than to withstand attack.

Grey Templar wrote:The Manta is primarly a troop lander and a bomber to strafe enemy space ships.

in BFG it is very slow compared to other ordinance(only Thunderhawks are the same speed) like Imperial Bombers and Fighters. its only advantage is durability(4+ save compared to other ordinance which is destroyed if hit. thunderhawks and eldar craft have this save too)


Manta's as surface attack craft, while they have big guns, are very slow compared to Imperial Air support. like Thunderhawks and Thunderbolts. Thunderhawks and Thunderbolts are far more maneuverable then it, meaning it will find it almost impossable to bring its Heavy Railguns to bear on them and must rely on Burst Cannons(which in the game can't even glance the Thunderhawk's Av12. IIRC the Thunderbolt also has Av12)


While a Manta certaintly could drop a Titan, it couldn't do so unless it had heavy Baraccuda support to chase off Imperial fighter cover and even then its risky as the Titan itself could draw a bead on the approaching beast.

Warhounds could probably, assuming heavy urban terrain, even avoid the fire completely with its amazing agility.

IIRC most of the Imperial flyers were AV10, the marine flyers were AV12, but I will be the first to admit my info may be out of date. Aside from the many burst cannons, the Manta mounts missile pods and carriers a lot of drones. Also, the purpose of the Tiger Shark AX-1-0 was to put some of the Manta's firepower in a more agile delivery system.

im2randomghgh wrote:
A Manta is a titan equivalent that is somewhere in between Reaver and Warlord, so they are not ONLY capable of taking down warhounds.

And when did Tau face Warlord? Do you have source for this?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jefffar wrote:
Very true, but that doesn't mean the target won't explode due to the damage.

Now this is a missile, but this is a special type of missile called LOSAT. The killing principle of this missile is pretty simple, it accelerates a solid metal penetrator to extreme speeds and drives it into the target as hard as possible. Essentially the same kill mechanism as a railgun.
Tank go boom.

Very true, but Titan on Taros didn't explode...

For Jeffar's comment:
Be it Losat or railgun doesn't matter. The issue isn't whether the tau can kill the titan, because of course they can. it's how to best do this given other tactical considerations.

Aside from that, must a titan explode to be effectively out of combat?

Hashbeth wrote:

Aside from that, must a titan explode to be effectively out of combat?

It must not.

Titans would retreat to their base if the damage is to severe to actively fight on, except some crews may be to focused on vengeance too much. Titans seem to follow the concept of machines of multiple "lines", like battleships and cruisers in naval warfare did.
To preserve the machine to fight on another day is part of the fluff.

They are more monuverable(questionable spelling?) than other titans.they can rotate the top half and jump,IIRC.

The hips can rotate 100 degrees, so not all the way around.

I do think they can jump, although the usefullness of this is probably limited at best. when you take 10 meter strides and clear the ground by 10 feet there probably isn't much you will need to jump over.



Warhounds are used to combat other titans and commonly run rings around larger ones that simply can't get a fix. They act like PT boats did in WW2, they would be too fast and agile for larger warships to attack effectivly, but they were more then capable of sinking those larger ships.

Grey Templar wrote:The Manta is primarly a troop lander and a bomber to strafe enemy space ships.

in BFG it is very slow compared to other ordinance(only Thunderhawks are the same speed) like Imperial Bombers and Fighters. its only advantage is durability(4+ save compared to other ordinance which is destroyed if hit. thunderhawks and eldar craft have this save too)


Manta's as surface attack craft, while they have big guns, are very slow compared to Imperial Air support. like Thunderhawks and Thunderbolts. Thunderhawks and Thunderbolts are far more maneuverable then it, meaning it will find it almost impossable to bring its Heavy Railguns to bear on them and must rely on Burst Cannons(which in the game can't even glance the Thunderhawk's Av12. IIRC the Thunderbolt also has Av12)


While a Manta certaintly could drop a Titan, it couldn't do so unless it had heavy Baraccuda support to chase off Imperial fighter cover and even then its risky as the Titan itself could draw a bead on the approaching beast.

Warhounds could probably, assuming heavy urban terrain, even avoid the fire completely with its amazing agility.

I has six heavy ion cannons and a dozen seeker missiles. And in fluff 16 HB equivalent weapons would wreck a thunderhawk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

1hadhq wrote:

Hashbeth wrote:

Aside from that, must a titan explode to be effectively out of combat?

It must not.

Titans would retreat to their base if the damage is to severe to actively fight on, except some crews may be to focused on vengeance too much. Titans seem to follow the concept of machines of multiple "lines", like battleships and cruisers in naval warfare did.
To preserve the machine to fight on another day is part of the fluff.

Also, read pg.14 Tau Empire codex. You`ll see what it does to crew

im2randomghgh wrote:



Also, read pg.14 Tau Empire codex. You`ll see what it does to crew

If you pay attention, its irrelevant.
Codex Tau and Codex Tau empire had just firefights, without any casualties mentioned.
So as per your source, no Titan was ever harmed.

1hadhq wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:



Also, read pg.14 Tau Empire codex. You`ll see what it does to crew

If you pay attention, its irrelevant.
Codex Tau and Codex Tau empire had just firefights, without any casualties mentioned.
So as per your source, no Titan was ever harmed.

No, it is what happened when a tank was hit with a light railgun.

Codex Tau Empire wrote:One of their light walkers carried a weapon of lethal effect. It fired a form of ultra-high velocity projectile. I saw one of our tanks after being hit by it. There was a small hole punched in either flank-one the projectile's entry point, the other its exit. The tiny munition had passed through the vehicle with such speed that everything within the hull not welded down had been sucked through the exit hole. Including the crew. We never identified their bodies, for all that remained of them was a red stain upon the ground, extending some twenty meters from the wrecks

THAT is what it does to crew.

Well in reality a rail-type-round piercing a vehicle would probably cause a massive pressure wave to spread through said vehicle, bursting the crew's organs before exit (though if it was too powerful the bullet would just shred the vehicle, and perhaps spare the crew).

They would just stare amazed as this giant metal god crushes everything in it's path and hope it doesn't notice them.

Hashbeth wrote:Well in reality a rail-type-round piercing a vehicle would probably cause a massive pressure wave to spread through said vehicle, bursting the crew's organs before exit (though if it was too powerful the bullet would just shred the vehicle, and perhaps spare the crew).

Wouldn't spare the crew.

Very well could. At what speed is it going? What is the atmosphere of the tank interior? What is the shape of its interior metalwork? all those have increasing factors. And a truly effective rail projectile for anti-tank would be fired in a ballistic trajectory (to maximize kinetic energy), as the velocity itself would not 'suck the air' out of the tank.

Hashbeth wrote:Very well could. At what speed is it going? What is the atmosphere of the tank interior? What is the shape of its interior metalwork? all those have increasing factors. And a truly effective rail projectile for anti-tank would be fired in a ballistic trajectory (to maximize kinetic energy), as the velocity itself would not 'suck the air' out of the tank.

at a dozen times the speed of sound it might.

A round fired in a straight line at 12x the speed of sound is a waste of energy for a kinetic round. If anything, it shows that tau misuse technology, as a ballistic trajectory would do far more damage far easier.

At 12 x the speed of sound, air doesn't start wrapping around a projectile like a blanket. If anything it would be pressure expansion in the tank (caused by disturbing the atmosphere inside the vehicle) rather than pulling everything out of the tank.

Hashbeth wrote:Very well could. At what speed is it going? What is the atmosphere of the tank interior? What is the shape of its interior metalwork? all those have increasing factors. And a truly effective rail projectile for anti-tank would be fired in a ballistic trajectory (to maximize kinetic energy), as the velocity itself would not 'suck the air' out of the tank.

If it passed through in such a way that it didn't harm the crew, then it wouldn't have done any damage. (we are assumeing it his the crew section. If it misses the crew section, then ya i don't think it will hurt what it misses.)

Come on, everyone knows Tau Railguns are the best weapons ever created. The projectile moves so fast, it hits you before it leaves the barrel.

They should totally make a special rule for it in the game where if you fire it on turn 6, you will actually hit the enemy on turn 3.

Since Tau doctorin dictates f&m in most circumstances I don't see why faceing a titan would be any differnt. Depending on a defencive role I'm sure the Tau commander would displace from any fixed position and skirmish the titans' retinue until its no longer combat effective. I see and I'm sure any commander would view a titan as any other vehical or suport weapon. Sure the damage it can bring is unimaginable but just like any unsuported unit it will eventually be overrun. Imperial guard and Mech commaners would know that aswell and would eventually withdraw when the time came. Sure, you can have guns that level cities but when you have squad/platoon size engagements it would be horribly cost ineffective to fire those big guns. General George S. Patton once said "Some goddamn fool once said that flanks have got to be secure. Since then sonofabitches all over the globe have been guarding their flanks. I don't agree with that. My flanks are something for the enemy to worry about, not me. Before he finds out where my flanks are, I'll be cutting the bastard's throat." He was also quoted saying "Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man." With no special "Anti-titan" weapons on hand, surgical strike teams would be sent to isolate the titan from its retinue and/or "lines" if not just left alone and ignored alltogether.
When the Tau are attacking and the imperium employing the titan in a defensive posture would be to hard to judge options avaible there are to many variables to consider for a vague fourm post.

The problem with fire and maneuver against a Titan is most likely the Titan will just obliterate any force that could get close enough to do damage to it from long, long distance.

There's really not much Tau would need to employ against a Titan than massed Railguns, plus some Heavy Railguns if they have them on site. The main problem is keeping them alive long enough to breach the void shields while bring shot at by Magma Cannons, Laser Destructors, Plasma Annihilators, etc.

By dying in droves in the face of the fury of the Emperor's Hammer.

the general method of Titan operations is fairly fluid.


Main Battle Titans like Reavers and Warlords will form the main line and will pound enemy positions from dozens of kilometers away, warlords can even engage from over the horizon with their ballistic weaponry like Vortex Missiles.

Warhounds form the advance force. They are grouped in pairs that are given an enormous amount of personal libery in their prosection of the enemy. they never remain still for long and their rapidly moving forms will be difficult for Tau stealth teams to sabotage by climbing on, much less track down in the first place.


Warhounds are small enough to take advantage of actual cover, 45 feet high at rest. Buildings and Trees can provide large amounts of concelment.

The question shouldn't be do the Tau have any weapons that can harm a Titan, which they undoubtedly do, or will have. It can they keep those weapons active long enough to actually do any damage. You have to remember that titans can engage from extreme ranges too, and carry weapons more than capable of wiping a tau vehicle.

-Loki- wrote:Come on, everyone knows Tau Railguns are the best weapons ever created.

Angels of Death, Doomsday Monolith, Exterminatus bomb, Blackstone fortress, Bloodtide machine, Nova Cannon...
Should I continue?

In "Savage Scars" by Any Hoare, Tau takes down a Warhound Titan using a combination of Markerlights and Seeker Missiles. It doesn't make much sense from a gaming standpoint, but the fluff is out there. However, Tau had a lot of trouble taking down the Reaver and Emperor class. I'd imagine they would employ Heavy Railguns via Manta and TIGER SHARK AX-1-0, which were originally meant to take out battleships.

From a logistical perspective, an anti-titan aircraft sounds much more effective considering its easier produce and can potentially be fielded in vast quantities.

Brother Coa wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Come on, everyone knows Tau Railguns are the best weapons ever created.

Angels of Death, Doomsday Monolith, Exterminatus bomb, Blackstone fortress, Bloodtide machine, Nova Cannon...
Should I continue?

Not necessary. But I think it's necessary you start reading entire posts before replying. Because in the very next sentence, I had the following.

-Loki- wrote:... The projectile moves so fast, it hits you before it leaves the barrel.

They should totally make a special rule for it in the game where if you fire it on turn 6, you will actually hit the enemy on turn 3.

I leave it to you to figure out why reading the rest of that post would have an effect on the first sentence.

-Loki- wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Come on, everyone knows Tau Railguns are the best weapons ever created.

Angels of Death, Doomsday Monolith, Exterminatus bomb, Blackstone fortress, Bloodtide machine, Nova Cannon...
Should I continue?

Not necessary. But I think it's necessary you start reading entire posts before replying. Because in the very next sentence, I had the following.

-Loki- wrote:... The projectile moves so fast, it hits you before it leaves the barrel. And how is this possible by today laws of psysics? If I am 1000km away how can the projectile hit me before it exit the barrel? This doesen't make sense at all, like starting an engine before using keys...

They should totally make a special rule for it in the game where if you fire it on turn 6, you will actually hit the enemy on turn 3.[/b]

I leave it to you to figure out why reading the rest of that post would have an effect on the first sentence.

First of all - this question is regarding the fluff - not table rules.
Second off all Tau Railguns, aldo awesome guns, are not the BEST WEAPON EVER CREATED IN 40k UNIVERSE. They can't blow entire planet, they can't move at lightning speed, they can't tear down enemy to molecules etc...

AS you can see, I was implementing to fluff, not table. And even on table Railguns are not the ( again best weapon reference ), personal teleportes are.

He wasn't being serious, Coa. He was being sarcastic.

Has anyone seen the Star Wars episode 5,This is what I think about when I here the phrase-"tau vs Titans.

If only Titans were anything like AT-AT's.