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Whats your thoughts on that? Is the deathwing army obsolete now that you can do essentially the same thing with Space Wolves?

In most respects, yes. You aren't gonna be using an apothecary, but that matters little in the end. The points are rather cheaper as well, and Logan's abilities, all of them, make up for his points cost. On top of this, the only BAD part is the expensive TH and SS, but it is forgivable since dual claws are cheap.

I don't know, missing out on Deathwing Assault is huge, since otherwise you have to buy Landraiders to get across the board.

I've never even seen anyone field a 'Logan-wing.' I think the vulnerability of the Deatwing is still there, if you seem to be good at rolling ones, or your opponent has a bunch of AP2 he can throw at you, the army will lose every fight.

noob question: What is deathwing/logan-wing? I've seen both of these names posted multiple times but I have no idea what they are.

The Deathwing is the First Company of the Dark Angels chapter. It consists entirely of Veterans in Terminator Armor, and has rules to match (Terminators are taken as Troops). The Space Wolves have a character named Logan which allows Wolf Guard to be taken as Troops, and they can all be given Terminator armor: thus Loganwing. Interestingly enough, you can also play an entire Meganob Ork army, using two Warbosses to take two squads as Troops. It's been coined the Deffwing.

DarkHound wrote:The Deathwing is the First Company of the Dark Angels chapter. It consists entirely of Veterans in Terminator Armor, and has rules to match (Terminators are taken as Troops). The Space Wolves have a character named Logan which allows Wolf Guard to be taken as Troops, and they can all be given Terminator armor: thus Loganwing. Interestingly enough, you can also play an entire Meganob Ork army, using two Warbosses to take two squads as Troops. It's been coined the Deffwing.

ahhh so what I wanted to do in my first game had a name. thanks.

DarkHound wrote:I don't know, missing out on Deathwing Assault is huge, since otherwise you have to buy Landraiders to get across the board.

starbomber109 wrote:I've never even seen anyone field a 'Logan-wing.' I think the vulnerability of the Deatwing is still there, if you seem to be good at rolling ones, or your opponent has a bunch of AP2 he can throw at you, the army will lose every fight.

I've got a friend that plays drop pod based loganwing (drop pod assault instead of deathwing assault), and he has only lost 1 game with it so far (2 draws iirc).
Yes ap 2 can be a pain, but with all cover around you shouldn't need to rely on 5++. Also he includes a random power armor wolf guard in some of the squads, on which he can use the 4+ cover saves instead.
He also uses long fangs to back him up with long range firepower.

But yeah, its got weaknesses (main one is of course lack of mobility, after deep striked) but if you play right you have good chances with the list, imo.

Oh, that's right. Space Wolves can stuff their Terminators in Drop Pods because they're drunk. Eh, it doubles your KPs, and still costs more points... No, I wouldn't say Loganwing has eclipsed Deathwing. In order to run a Loganwing with even the slightest thought to effectiveness you need models that aren't in Terminator armor to carry your Meltaguns and provide cheap wounds since Logan is so expensive.

For a strictly all-Terminator-all-the-time experience, go Deathwing. For everything else, there's Logan Grimnar.

Wolfguards could mix termies into power armor squads, which could keep TDA-only wargears like cyclone and chainfist, and bring a lower average cost.

That is the core-advantage of Logan-guard list.

Lorgan-ALL-Terminators is not competitive.

s the deathwing army obsolete now that you can do essentially the same thing with Space Wolves?

My SW friend is making a wolfwing army to mock me because I used to play dark angels. I think I took the fun out of it when i encouraged him and joined in on the Dark Angel bashing

Although the TH/SS combo is more expensive in the loganwing, many other options are cheaper. Most importantly, each and every wolf guard terminator is individually customisable. This means that loganwing squads can be made more efficient points wise, and that the models look cooler and more individualistic.

Yes, but Deathwing is also very customisable. Every terminator can have a different weapon from the other terminator, even if they're in one squad.

Both are terrible. Wolf Wing is really bad because it's slow, has few scoring units and the wargear prices in the Space Wolf codex are terrible for many things. Everything costs the same regardless of whether it goes on a Wolf Lord or a normal dude. If a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor takes a Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shielf he costs 63 points. That is 23 points more than a Space Marine version and all you get for that is Counter-attack.

Working on the basis that the deathwing are dark angels and therefore suck compared to space wolves I think it could work.

DarkHound wrote:I don't know, missing out on Deathwing Assault is huge, since otherwise you have to buy Landraiders to get across the board.

Bingo.

Deathwing still has some things going for it. Deathwing Assault being the primary one. Properly executed, it can be devastating.

Deathwing is still nasty and should get better when they bother to update the codex. As far as Loganwing, never actually seen anyone use it. There are much better lists in the SW codex, for sure.

Pretty much.

DarkHound wrote:
For a strictly all-Terminator-all-the-time experience, go Deathwing. For everything else, there's Logan Grimnar.

Is it just me, but does this sound suspiciously like a mastercard commercial?

That's what it sounded like in my head.

I think BT actually do the terminator heavy game the best. 250ish points gets you 5 jerkfaces with tank hunting and 2 assault cannons, in a 2000 point list you can easily run 5 of these (3 elites, 2 HQ) and as many initiate/scrub squads as you need to cover the frontage of your army to give them cover as necessary.

10 rending S6 or 7 vs vehicles guns with 4 shots a piece, plus 25 guys who have power fists and preferred enemy thanks to the emperor's chump. Versatile, killy, tough. Loganwing ain't got gak on that.

Problem with BT-Wing is the Termies aren't Troops, have the weaker SS, and don't have Droppod/Deatwing-Assault.

As for Logan-Wing i've seen it outmatch Deathwing a few times now. Drop Pod assault is much safer than Death Wing assault, without teleport homers (which have to get into position first). it also gives you some nice LOS blocking vehicles. you don't have to give the Termies both TH and SS. i've found that it's better to split up the SS and the TH. Wolf-claws are awesome!! and cheap!! Yeah Logan is expensive, but well worth it. His bonuses are outstanding, and he can handle himself in CC. And having just basic termies with PW and storm bolters are not to be scoffed at. PW's (especially with help from Logan) can do a number on just about anything. Oh, and then there's Arjac! And SW can get nice support characters in Rune Priests and Wolf Priests in Termie armor.

Thing is, the BT terminators don't particularly need any of those things. They don't need to be troops because you can buy 2 cheap crusader squads and reserve them and have them walk/ride in a rhino onto objectives on your side of the board when they become available, while your terminator phalanx + their meatshields runs up to perform some assault cannon enemas on the guys sitting on the other objectives.

They don't need the stormshields because they're a MSU army. Is a unit in danger of being shot up (ie, 5+ armor ignoring wounds)? Go to ground behind your initiate shield. 3+ cover save. Woo.

They don't need deathwing assault or drop pods because, well.. no terminator army really does. If they're choppy, they're better off being in a land raider. If they're shooty, they're either shooty enough to start on the board as normal or they're not shooty enough to be worth taking.

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:noob question: What is deathwing/logan-wing? I've seen both of these names posted multiple times but I have no idea what they are.

not noob, just ignorant.
in a good way.

Deathwing are DA terminators that are taken as troops
Loganwing is a jokuerism for the same thing.

But the point of a "-wing" army is all Terminators (or just all 2+ saves in the case of DeffWing). I'm not saying that the BT's can't do well with mostly Termies (their termies can hurt since they can still get Vet abilities), it just doesn't really fit the mold of a "-wing" army.

i know this topic is old but i thought i would jsut add my personal opinion. deathwing is really outdated and until the new codex comes out (evevtually ) it will remain so compared to wolfwing or loganwing as others call it. for just starters they get modified cyclone missile launcher rules, many items are cheaper, sb and pw come as standard and the hq choice for sw is far more powerful than that of the deathwing. and while wolfwing might miss out of deathwing assault and deepstrike the far more useful and reliable drop pod rule which allows wolf gaurd termies to use drop pods is invaluable. so to conclude i respect everyone elses opinion on the matter but for me wolfwing 1-0 deathwing

Shinkaze wrote:
Both are terrible. Wolf Wing is really bad because it's slow, has few scoring units and the wargear prices in the Space Wolf codex are terrible for many things. Everything costs the same regardless of whether it goes on a Wolf Lord or a normal dude. If a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor takes a Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shielf he costs 63 points. That is 23 points more than a Space Marine version and all you get for that is Counter-attack.

You can get a 5man WG squad with 1guy in TDA w/CML+PF for 135 pts. How is that bad?


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And actually BT termispam works very well, my friend runs 3 terminator squads w/ 2 AC and 1 command squad w/ 2 AC @ 1500, plus 2 cheapo squads of crusaders for scoring ability. All of the terms have tank hunters, and the whole army has rerolls to hit in CC (accept any challenge). He's pwned my face with it many times

to be fair to him i think he is talking about wolf gaurd in tda not just normal wolf gaurd. but in reply to his quote i think he would surpirsed how effective 20 units of terminators with power fists or weapons has when they drop intot he middle of your army while 10 missile launchers from long fangs take out your armour and frag shells ( i think ) rip through infantry. it is risky but i scares the cr*p out of your oppenent.

Loganwing needs to be played more like chaos termies.

38 points with a combie weapon. Just say no to thammers and wolf claws. 4 out of 5 models should be 38 points. Go with 1 or 2 meltas and 2 to 3 plasmas along with a single asscannon or cyclone ML with a pifst/chainfist on the heavy weapon. All the ugliness of chaos termicide counting as a troops choice with an asscannon or cyclone to boot.