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StormForged wrote:

haroon wrote:

StormForged wrote:

haroon wrote:

StormForged wrote:

zacharia wrote:

The problem with proposing that all vehicles/transports in 6th will/should be more expensive is that the Rulebook itself doesn't affect it, but the individual codices. Therefore, if some units are made more expensive (say rhinos are 45pts in the next Codex), then they will be even further under-costed in Codices that have not been updated, therefore creating some notable imbalance...

And lucky necrons we get to be updated first to be at a disadvantage longest, after being without an update since 3e so we got to be at a disadvantage the longest...

Also if its correct vehicles will get tougher in 6e, how come they nerfed the monolith!

They did not nerf the Monolith. In exchange for the loss of immunity from Melta's and Lances, Monolith's get another, unique attack that allows them to suck models through their portal and instant kill them on a Toughness check (within 6 inches).

I think that is alot better than immunity.

10$ says you'd kill more Grey Knight Paladins that way than anything else in the army.

I will take that bet, a 6 inch str test isnt going to kill nearly as many paladins as a str 9 ap 2 large blast lol

You're on. A large blast template isn't cost effective on a small unit (even though they're on large Terminator Bases) and they still have their invulnerable saves to boot. At most you'll net three Paladins (on a direct hit) and kill two; where as I can hit all five (which are common among Terminators, especially highly priced paladins) and kill two-three out right.

This is just wrong, a paladin has 4 str so if it rolls a 1-4 its fine. You could fit 10 paladins under a large blast and if any of them fail there 5+ save they are instantly killed. I dont even see how you can argue this its fairly obvious. Its also much more cost effective point wise, and it literally has 12 times the range. You could fire it 4 times before a monlith is even with in range of its gate attack.

No experienced Grey Knight player would ever field 10 Paladins in a squad. That's just asking for trouble (unless its a 'character' led army, which still wouldn't warrant such an expensive group). Secondly, if you're hitting 10 paladins with one blast, then the other player is doing something wrong.

Thirdly, the Doomsday Ark has to remain immobile in order to fire its S9 Template, so the likely hood of the paladins using terrain to block line of sight is high, so in reality you would get 2-3 shots and a +4 Cover on top of that, which actually increases their survivability rate.

Fourthly, while the monolith has to get really close to use its portal, I can still hit all 10 Paladins and they get no saves what-so-ever plus, depending on how the portal attack works (whether if its done in the shooting phase or not) still have a Flux Arc to shoot at them.

A 150 point open-topped vehicle (as some people have mentioned) with/without upgrades and weapons (which again is in the New Codex and left open for scrutiny) that must be immobile to fire its strength 9 template that isn't ordonance barrage is (in my view) the worst thing you could ever consider buying as a long range heavy support choice. Not only do you need line of sight, but more likely you're exposing yourself, which undoubtedly means it'll get one shot then explode!

Until I see the actual Codex, I'd prefer the Monolith over the Doomsday Farce hands down in that situation.

Just think about what your saying, Grey knight paladin AT has a range of 24in. You cant even get close enough to use a 6in weapon. Even if you do, you will kill only 1/3 of the paladins. If even one paladin lives hes gona wreck it with a hammer. While at 72 inches away you are causing instant death with no vulnerability to your weapon. As a grey knight paladin player I am much more worried about the large blast lol. Even guard doesn't have that good of an AP weapon at that range. I am sure if you think this is over you would agree.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.

6 wraiths is 12 wounds worth of models. That tends to last a bit longer than 6 wounds worth of models.

Right, that's my point! Plus, 3++/5+++ should go a long way. If they clock in at 50 points per I'd probably rather take them than Lychguard at this point since I can't fathom how I'd get them to the enemy in the first place.

Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.

I have three built and painted and another two in blisters. I consider this unit a 1+ for my army. I also want to run a unit of 6 as a counter assault unit.

void stalker wrote:
from the original necron thread

Yakface wrote,
19) Besides a few units that are Fearless (Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs), the army doesn't have any sort of blanket immunity to morale. They are still Ld10, but obviously we know that still leaves them very vulnerable to being run down in combat, and it looks like that will remain a big Achilles heel.

is where i believe people are getting the idea that wraiths are fearless.

If that's the case, then great. But the fact it hasn't been mentioned in here worries me. need codex NOW!

Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.

Well, what I want to know is if wraiths are still T4, cuz if they are then if they get hit by a S8 wep, then it doesnt matter if they have 2W. If they fail their 3++ then they're down like a fly, and then they have to pass their RP to keep their one wound. Wouldnt be the worse thing in the world, but it would still be so annoying.

Ostrakon wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.

6 wraiths is 12 wounds worth of models. That tends to last a bit longer than 6 wounds worth of models.

Right, that's my point! Plus, 3++/5+++ should go a long way. If they clock in at 50 points per I'd probably rather take them than Lychguard at this point since I can't fathom how I'd get them to the enemy in the first place.

Then why did you call them stupid? That implies its a bad thing.

But yeah, new wraiths are pretty nasty. I tried them out in a kill team match. 3 wraiths against a GK Venerable Dread.

I lost...but I immobilized it and ripped away both its weapons. And I would have wrecked it if it weren't for that damn re-roll damage Special Rule.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

cyberscape7 wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.

Well, what I want to know is if wraiths are still T4, cuz if they are then if they get hit by a S8 wep, then it doesnt matter if they have 2W. If they fail their 3++ then they're down like a fly, and then they have to pass their RP to keep their one wound. Wouldnt be the worse thing in the world, but it would still be so annoying.

They Are.

Annihilation Barge sounds like it might be fun to use do we have a ballpark on the point cost for this one?

Aaaw well Still, shouldn't be too bad; they're still S6 I guess

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid...

Then why did you call them stupid? That implies its a bad thing. ...

Stupid can go either way. It all depends on emphasis ("I dropped a stupid amount of templates on him", "On the charge, they have a stupid amount of attacks"). Much like sarcasm, the true meaning is more easily understood in spoken language.

Balor wrote:Annihilation Barge sounds like it might be fun to use do we have a ballpark on the point cost for this one?

I think someone said 90.

Just think about what your saying, Grey knight paladin AT has a range of 24in. You cant even get close enough to use a 6in weapon. Even if you do, you will kill only 1/3 of the paladins. If even one paladin lives hes gona wreck it with a hammer. While at 72 inches away you are causing instant death with no vulnerability to your weapon. As a grey knight paladin player I am much more worried about the large blast lol. Even guard doesn't have that good of an AP weapon at that range. I am sure if you think this is over you would agree.

*I shortened the quote so the others wouldn't get peeved with a page of backlogged quotes*

The Monolith can Deepstrike. Now, I did not see the little tidbit about it not being immune to the Deepstrike mishap, so it has changed my opinion on it a little, and depending on how the wording is in the Codex, teleport Reserves through the portal and use the attack in the shooting phase.

Now while this assumption is worthless until the Codex comes out, but as a Tau player and Mech/Artillery Guard player, the Doomsday Ark is not worth its points in my opinion.

It's the stationary part that makes me frown.

You either can use it three ways:

1) Deploy it out of line-of-sight, move it out first turn, then fire it second turn.
2) Deploy in line of sight and pray that nothing blows it apart, so you can fire it turn one.
3) You get first turn. (Which, in retro-spect, is a downside, because your opponent can deploy to circumvent the Ark's LoS. Trust me, people do it to Battle Suits and Hammerhands on a constant basis).

The Earth Shaker Cannon on the Basilisk is AP3 and shoots far longer distances, and it doesn't require line of sight, and its ordonance barrage (meaning -1 to Leadership and 2D6 armor Pen and pick the highest and no cover saves if it the center lands in area terrain). The Medusa, however, range aside, is Strength 10 and AP2 but only at 36 Inches.

Both are cheaper (By the rumor's points cost, the Basilisk is 15 Points less, while the Medusa is 10) and can still fire without line of sight, which is more preferrable than sticking an Armor 13 (Quantum Shields), open-topped, stationary Doomsday Ark in the open.

If the Doomsday Ark could move and shoot, then I would whole-heartedly agree with you, however, as the current rumors stand, its not a worthwhile vehicle.

Euro prices:

Codex Necrons 26 €
Necron Catacomb Command/Annihilation Barge 26 €
Necron Doomsday/Ghost Barge 39 €
Imotekh the Stormlord 15 €
Trazyn, the Infinite 15 €
Necron Overlord 15 €
Necron Cryptec 12.50 €
Deathmarks/ Immortals (confirmed combo) 26 €
Triarch Praetorians / Lychguard (confirmed combo) 26 €
Necron Flayed Ones (Finecast) 35 €

Picture thanks to Mr. Bramgaunt from Warseer.

A bit too TK for my liking, is quite striking however.

nb the mix of weapons with plastic rods and those without once again.

wow. Nice!

StormForged wrote:

Just think about what your saying, Grey knight paladin AT has a range of 24in. You cant even get close enough to use a 6in weapon. Even if you do, you will kill only 1/3 of the paladins. If even one paladin lives hes gona wreck it with a hammer. While at 72 inches away you are causing instant death with no vulnerability to your weapon. As a grey knight paladin player I am much more worried about the large blast lol. Even guard doesn't have that good of an AP weapon at that range. I am sure if you think this is over you would agree.

*I shortened the quote so the others wouldn't get peeved with a page of backlogged quotes*

The Monolith can Deepstrike. Now, I did not see the little tidbit about it not being immune to the Deepstrike mishap, so it has changed my opinion on it a little, and depending on how the wording is in the Codex, teleport Reserves through the portal and use the attack in the shooting phase.

Now while this assumption is worthless until the Codex comes out, but as a Tau player and Mech/Artillery Guard player, the Doomsday Ark is not worth its points in my opinion.

It's the stationary part that makes me frown.

You either can use it three ways:

1) Deploy it out of line-of-sight, move it out first turn, then fire it second turn.
2) Deploy in line of sight and pray that nothing blows it apart, so you can fire it turn one.
3) You get first turn. (Which, in retro-spect, is a downside, because your opponent can deploy to circumvent the Ark's LoS. Trust me, people do it to Battle Suits and Hammerhands on a constant basis).

The Earth Shaker Cannon on the Basilisk is AP3 and shoots far longer distances, and it doesn't require line of sight, and its ordonance barrage (meaning -1 to Leadership and 2D6 armor Pen and pick the highest and no cover saves if it the center lands in area terrain). The Medusa, however, range aside, is Strength 10 and AP2 but only at 36 Inches.

Both are cheaper (By the rumor's points cost, the Basilisk is 15 Points less, while the Medusa is 10) and can still fire without line of sight, which is more preferrable than sticking an Armor 13 (Quantum Shields), open-topped, stationary Doomsday Ark in the open.

If the Doomsday Ark could move and shoot, then I would whole-heartedly agree with you, however, as the current rumors stand, its not a worthwhile vehicle.

The monolith is a worthwhile vehicle for sure. I love its utility, I might even agree its better then the Doomsday ark in general. However, as far as killing paladins it just doesn't compare in my opinion. You have to get so close to do so little damage. As for deployment and LOS I don't know about your play location, but in mine pretty much nothing blocks line of sight from vehicles. No terrain is large enough to hide behind completely, you can get a cover save easy enough, but you can always see some tiny part of the vehicle/squad and shoot at it. This is a problem from the rules changing regarding line of sight from another addition but the terrain reaming the same size.

You guys do realize it's a Strength Test, right? Meaning you need to roll 2d6, and hope you get lower than your strength. 4 or less on 2d6 isn't a certainty at all.

Balor wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.

I have three built and painted and another two in blisters. I consider this unit a 1+ for my army. I also want to run a unit of 6 as a counter assault unit.

Lots of Wraiths would be good for me as I have 9 (I was planning to play the 3 monolith, 9 wraith list under the old dex).

Anvildude wrote:You guys do realize it's a Strength Test, right? Meaning you need to roll 2d6, and hope you get lower than your strength. 4 or less on 2d6 isn't a certainty at all.

Attribute tests are done on a single D6, with the exception of Leadership.

Anvildude wrote:


You guys do realize it's a Strength Test, right? Meaning you need to roll 2d6, and hope you get lower than your strength. 4 or less on 2d6 isn't a certainty at all.

Stat test are made with ONE D6...not 2...and a 6 is always a failure.

Can people stop quoting huge amounts of text for mundane debates? Please.

I think Wraiths will prove to be pretty damn good against vehicles; Str 6 rending jump infantry; yes please! Negates their weak initiative too.

Possibly an important point -- in the rumored 6th edition rules, units may charge the turn they deep strike. Most units only get a 6" advance move after the DS, so you have to land close. And under those rules it's normally a very risky thing to even attempt to DS within 6" of another unit. But with a homer...

Should be fun for my daemons if true.

Slayer le boucher wrote:

Anvildude wrote:


You guys do realize it's a Strength Test, right? Meaning you need to roll 2d6, and hope you get lower than your strength. 4 or less on 2d6 isn't a certainty at all.

Stat test are made with ONE D6...not 2...and a 6 is always a failure.

1 is always a failure I thought..?

Just Dave wrote:Can people stop quoting huge amounts of text for mundane debates? Please.

I think Wraiths will prove to be pretty damn good against vehicles; Str 6 rending jump infantry; yes please! Negates their weak initiative too.

Yep. As I said in a earlier post, I tried out 3 of them in a killteam match against a venerable GK dreadnaught with 2 TL S8 autocannons. They lost in the end, but only because the GK player made me reroll the wrecked result. And I still took away its Autocannons and its legs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Abaddon wrote:

Slayer le boucher wrote:

Anvildude wrote:


You guys do realize it's a Strength Test, right? Meaning you need to roll 2d6, and hope you get lower than your strength. 4 or less on 2d6 isn't a certainty at all.

Stat test are made with ONE D6...not 2...and a 6 is always a failure.

1 is always a failure I thought..?

No. 1 is always a failure for shooting, CC and saves. For characteristic tests its the other way around.

Ah. Whoopsy. Wonder if that's gonna change, though? 'cause that'd be a much more awesome and fear-inducing weapon if that were the case. As it is, it means nothing over strength 5 has much to fear.

Anvildude wrote:Ah. Whoopsy. Wonder if that's gonna change, though? 'cause that'd be a much more awesome and fear-inducing weapon if that were the case. As it is, it means nothing over strength 5 has much to fear.

Not really. They can still die on a roll of a 6.

And if it does become 2d6 then these weapons will becoming ridiculously OP.

all this speculation about stuff 4 days away, guys just relax, let it come xD

Necrons will be very powerful, they WILL be

Anvildude wrote:Ah. Whoopsy. Wonder if that's gonna change, though? 'cause that'd be a much more awesome and fear-inducing weapon if that were the case. As it is, it means nothing over strength 5 has much to fear.

Well, there's already similar (but much scarier IMHO) weapon, which takes an I test: Jaws of the World Wolf.

This just occured to me but, their line of thinking on getting rid of deepstriking mishap immunity for the monolith makes sense. Primarily because it says it's always treated as stationary in the shooting phase. Which would mean that the monolith can come in from deepstrike and still fire all weapons, where as opponents will only be able to hit it the following melee on a 6.

Also the whip doesn't sound like it's ordnance anymore so it can be fired with the flux arcs in the same phase (and probably the portal attack if your close enough).

I am really starting to think about least painful method of converting current Immortals to wield tesla...

And this picture from WD... There is something wrong with it... May be the mixture of units with and without the green rods...

Fan67 wrote:I am really starting to think about least painful method of converting current Immortals to wield tesla...

And this picture from WD... There is something wrong with it... May be the mixture of units with and without the green rods...

I really hope all these models still come with green rods, but these just have them painted over. I swear I'm the only guy who actually likes them.