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Naw, more like Marines and Different Chapter Marines.

GW release schedule:

Humans
Humans
Humans
Not Humans
Humans
Humans
Not Humans
.
.
.
repeat

Shaman wrote:In 2012 there will be 2 codexes..

Marines

And

Not Marines.

This has won the thread.

I think that consolidation of some of the codexes would be an amazing idea, personally. I wouldn't mind shelling out an extra $5-$10 (or $10-$20 for the "good guy" SMs, as it would be a relatively thick book) for a codex if it were a few pages thicker, still covered the fluff as comprehensively as they do currently, and would keep the current number of them within a realistic (at most) 3 year release/update cycle.

Consolidation would actually lead to a larger percentage of people buying more of the books, and would lend itself to higher sales in models, as well as slashing a large portion of the costs of the actual printing (initial setup costs for each new book), while only minimally contributing to the slightly increased cost of a single codex...

The problem with that (and I'm no fan of SM dominance of the release schedule, let me tell you) is that SM have such a place as the beginner army that making the book too complicated/more expensive than other books would be a bad thing.
Space Marine/Imperial Dominance of 40K is a fact of life. If you don't like it, I can suggest many other games where no one faction dominates the releases or the background- WFB is one, and Warmachine and Hordes are another.
I used to rage about this too, but I've realised there's no point. Space Marines are just too profitable for GW.

The thing is, though, is that the precedent for having different codices for every damn marine chapter has in turn spawned the precedent for having two Chaos codices, two Inquistion codices, etc. Anyone think that it will stop there? Where's the codex for every different ork klan? Or every different IG faction? Or every different craftworld?

Pump out the additional fluff material if you want to, but keep the army list sections to a logical minimum.

Purpose of codex spam is to help push selling their product.

LeperMessiah wrote: Where's the codex for every different ork klan?

HELL YES. The Ork klans are far more different than Space Marine chapters in every way that matters for a tabletop wargame, ie combat style and color scheme. Give me Codex: Goffs! I'll buy it!

MagickalMemories wrote:Personally, I don't have a problem with the # of codices out there.
I could see a Codex:Inquisition being feasible. I mean, rumor is that GW is discussing that already, anyway. Even then, I wouldn't want it if the different elements within it couldn't be mix & matched.

Lumping CSM and Daemons would be a horrible idea. Aside from the fact that they're both Chaos, they're entirely different armies.
Using that reasoning, we could have Codex: Imperium with both of the Imperial armies and (IG & SM) and Codex: Eldar with Eldar and Dark Eldar. There wouldn't be much difference.

No. I'm all for every army having its own codex (even the SM variants).

Eric

Eldar and Dark Eldar in the same codex? That's like saying Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines in the same codex.

I like the idea of a single Inquisition Book, heck even a single Chaos book, but Marines...I don't know...It would simplify things...

I have never understood the need for the other SM books. Space Wolves are the only ones with radically different organization.
I mean really, take a look.

Dark Angels: Wear dresses. Their heterosexual life partner leaders allow them to take bikes and terminators as troops. We dont need a book for these guys.

Black Templars: Also wear dresses. They have scouts in their tactical squads. We don't need a book for these guys.

Blood Angels: Some of them think they are their Primarch and forever live the moment when Horus mind-raped the entire chapter. So basically angry assault marines. Also assault marines as troops. Yeah. Once again, we don't need a book for these guys.

And their it is. The only reason not to turn four books into one book, is really just to make a little bit more money. And so, it will never, ever, EVER happen. In fact, its likely that we'll get Codex:Salamanders, Codex:Imperial Fists, and Codex: Raven Guard in the near future.

alexwars1 wrote:I have never understood the need for the other SM books. Space Wolves are the only ones with radically different organization.
I mean really, take a look.

Dark Angels: Wear dresses. Their heterosexual life partner leaders allow them to take bikes and terminators as troops. We dont need a book for these guys.

Black Templars: Also wear dresses. They have scouts in their tactical squads. We don't need a book for these guys.

Blood Angels: Some of them think they are their Primarch and forever live the moment when Horus mind-raped the entire chapter. So basically angry assault marines. Also assault marines as troops. Yeah. Once again, we don't need a book for these guys.

And their it is. The only reason not to turn four books into one book, is really just to make a little bit more money. And so, it will never, ever, EVER happen. In fact, its likely that we'll get Codex:Salamanders, Codex:Imperial Fists, and Codex: Raven Guard in the near future.

Well they wear capes and loin cloths but thats neither here nor there.


I agree, they could make bigger codices (IE cost more money GW cmon you know you like it you motor boatin basterds!) and stick options inside said codices. I REALLY agree with the SM codex. Seriously they could just do like they did with the Choas codex that had the different legions in there. A few pages, and they are radically different from a bland chaos army. Whats so hard about that?

They HAVE to make a codex : Inquisition. That just makes too much sense really. Im not sure about a codex Eldar race. Half Eldar, half Dark Eldar. But if thats what they have to do to get the Dark Eldar pushed, then dammit Im all for it!

There is an alternative to this whole thing that I've mentioned before and this conversation only re-emphasises it's suitability. Maybe I should suggest it to GW and watch them ignore it

Ring bound codices.

Let's take C:SM/Dark Angels/Blood Angels/Other SM Chapter etc. as an example.

When you compare all these books, there is a very large percentage of crossover (as has been mentioned earlier in the thread). Rather than trying to shoe horn everything into one codex that costs a billion pounds, why not release C:SM in full, will all the full page descriptions of the common troop/vehicle types and release Chapter add-ons that just drop into place in the ring binder.

The Add-on would contain full page descriptions of any new troop types (Death company/Furioso/Baal/etc/etc), special charactersand of course, the fluff that everyone wants.

For GW (and us) this has many benefits.

1) Standardised rules/descriptions that don't change between Codecies/editions unless someone *really* means to, such as Blood Claws

2) When a new edition or FAQ comes out it's much less work for them to update the Codices. One update pack in with the new edition (or sold separately) could include any necessary changes to all existing Codices rules, bringing everything in line at once. None of this having to wait 10 years to get a book that works with the current edition.

I see you noticed that there wouldn't necessarily need to be new codex releases, just update sheets. So where does their money come from?

Think about the modular nature of a ring bound book. It'd possible to add new characters/units to a list without releasing a whole new book. For example if they decided to allow Grey Knights as an elite choice for Marines in 6e , simply add a free page with WD (which boosts sales of WD and Grey Knights/whatever).

Let's not forget race/chapter/klan specific ring binders

It also allows them time to produce Klan/Chapter/Craftworld/God specific add-ons as these would be 90% fluff with new characters/units with a few new models to encourage sales and a few rule tweaks to change the FoC placement of troops. Most of the time it would be a few pages of fluff and a couple of new characters; nothing that causes massive codex creep.

I realise this technically means more "codex" like releases rather than less, but these would be more like optional mini updates/modifications to one of the core books rather than a whole new book itself.

Obviously this would take an edition or three to get into place, but just think how useful it could be.

KingCracker wrote:


Well they wear capes and loin cloths but thats neither here nor there.

Very well. We'll compromise and say they wear aprons, mmk?

Although I really like endtransmission's ring-bound idea (reminiscent of the old AD&D Monstrous Compendium, now I come to think of it), we all know that this is unlikely to ever happen.

By unlikely I mean checking the temperature in hell....


But would a more realistic line of books be:

Xenos (6 codices) - Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Tau, Necrons, Tyranids.
-as we have now

Chaos (3 codices) - CSM, Daemons, Renegades.
-one new book, but with an option in all 3 books to take allies from the others.

Imperium (2+1 codices) - IG, SoB, +Imperium+.
-IG stays as is, SoB get their own book with extra eclesiarchy stuff but no Inquisitors. Imperium is a book of allies that can be used with either IG or SoB armies and includes Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Inquisitors, Mercs, Rogue Traders, Ordo Magos Explorator teams, Adeptus Arbites, etc.

Astartes (1+2 codices) - SM, Astartes Vol 1, Astartes Vol 2.
-SM becomes just an ultramarine codex. AV1 and AV2 deal with 4 first-founding chapters (and their successors) each using all the stuff in C:SM as a baseline with alternate organisations and chapter-unique units/wargear. Similar to the old codex supplements but on a bigger scale.


This would actually give you 1 less codex than currently exists but provides a much greater array of options, including proper chaos armies!

Chimera_Calvin wrote:Although I really like endtransmission's ring-bound idea (reminiscent of the old AD&D Monstrous Compendium, now I come to think of it), we all know that this is unlikely to ever happen

Oh, I know it's entirely unlikely to happen... I can dream can't I?

I like the Imperium book idea a lot as I prefer the idea of Inquisitors/Grey Knights/Deathwatch etc as extra units in an existing Guard/Marine army rather than fully fledged armies of their own devising. I'm not too sure about the Sisters fielding massive forces on their own, but that's just me.

I think the only problem I would have with the ring binder and mini-updates idea is that you would have to be quite proactive in making sure you were up to date with all the new rules for your chosen army. I can see it being quite easy to get confused as to which pages you are supposed to still be using and which ones are now not being used, which ones you need etc.

It is like buying a game and about a year later deciding to patch it to the latest version... you then have to hunt through all the updates to find the correct patches to apply (ie there may be a 1.1-1.3 then a 1.3-1.4 patch, but you need a 1.2-1.4 patch).

Confusing.

Well computer games have auto-patch functions now or cumulative patches. It'd be a simple thing to put page numbers on the new sheets that replace the old sheets (it doesn't need to be ALL new information) then you could just throw the old one away and put the update in.

It would do awaywith the need for errata or FAQs because the actual codex/rulebook would be continually updated. They could sell the update packs and make money.

It'll never happen, though; it makes entirely too much sense.

What about if you need to increase the number of pages in the middle of the book? You will quickly get out of synch with more and more updates.

that's what appendices are for.

Need Mooare Codices!