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Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:It is, quite clearly, Dark Eldar.

Whatever, depends what you define as "evil" doesn't it? The Dark Eldar are not actively helping Chaos, therefore they are not as evil as other races.

Helping Chaos isn't the definition of evil. If the Dark Eldar torture and murder people for enjoyment, then I think that's "evil" regardless of whether they serve chaos or not. Chaos is just a manifestation of emotions and thought. Of course, that's not to say that the followers of Chaos are not evil, and that the beliefs of chaos don't fall in line with what we consider "Evil", I'm just trying to say that Chaos isn't the definitive evil of 40K universe.
I'm not really sure if that's what you meant in your post, correct me if I'm wrong.

Dark Eldar are evil in the sense that they delight in perverse activities and slavery. Generally evil, but they do try to avoid any sort of feeding the chaos gods (does hiding within the warp prevent your actions giving them power?)...

Dark Eldar live in the Webway, I think, not the warp.

ZoomDakkaDakka wrote:Dark Eldar live in the Webway, I think, not the warp.

Yep. Commoragh is most definitely deep in the Webway.

Dark Eldar are only a contender in this poll if you're reaaaaally into tortureporn without safewords, though.

but the DE are not evil... they torture people to keep slannesh at bay

Oh hey another one of these threads...

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:but the DE are not evil... they torture people to keep slannesh at bay

Sure, but don't you get the impression they kinda-sorta enjoy it while they're at it? And besides, making other people suffer in order to stave off an evil you created isn't exactly noble in the first place.

I said nids... I mean, they're not evil. They're just hungry. Really really hungry, in that *must consume all organic matter in the universe* type of way.

Each races goals and actions are quite reasonable given the context of the game and depending on your viewpoint.

'being 'least evil' has no meaning.

Its like asking who is most evil or who is 'best good'. Our concepts of morality have no real bearing on the grimdark universe.

Imperium be rolling. Galaxy be hating.

Also, Tau ethereals are hinted to posses chemical pheremones that make other Tau very agreeable with them, so the entire race is actually under a sort of 'happy pill' of some sort, the only dissenters being the hated Farsight Enclaves. The entire idea of Tau being 'Good' is in fact a huge joke by some *gasp* creative GW writers. Tau are just another form of xenos tyranny that threatens mankinds survival, one with a veneer of civility.

I would say...Space Wolves! They fight to protect humanity from extinction and always show a sense of compassion and morality that seems to be lacking with anyone else in the 41st millenium. They fight to protect what is worth saving and unlike many other space marine chapters they are not above disobeying orders (and outright attacking imperial forces) when they believe the wrong thing is being done.
That being said the rest of the imperium is not what I would consider 'good'. They were once good under the emperor but once he died humanity's morals and ethics went backwards, as did their technology. The emperor went from being a benevolent leader to a god and the tradition and doctrine imposed by the ecclesiarchy does not really reflect anything the emperor would have stood for while he was alive. The imperium is highly corrupt and racist and any society that kills its own soldiers in order to save face cannot be 'good.' i would say different parts of the imperium vary between 'good' 'morally ambiguous' and 'evil'

The eldar are a fallen race seeking redemption for the decadence and immorality of their society which led to the destruction of their civilization and the birth of slaanesh. they are neither evil or good but under the guidence of their farseers they carry out acts both evil and good to further the greater good in the end. I suppose the eldar are firm believers that the end justifies the means. In the end i rate them morally ambiguous.

tyranids are not evil any more than an animal is evil, but the driving intelligence of the hive mind which leads them to kill and consume seems to qualify as evil to me. it seems very similar to the flood off of halo: animalistic parisites consuming the galaxy driven by a massive and malicious interconnecting intelligence. they rate morally ambigous

orcs are simple and brutal creatures focused on anarchy, war, fighting and destruction. just because they are simple doesn't make their actions of unnecessary killing, violence and destructions any less evil. they enjoy what they do and are aware their actions are not good, much like an incredibly violent, very large and malicious child. the also rate morally ambigous.

as for chaos, dark eldar and necrons? these guys enjoy and thrive on acts of killing, murder, rape, torture and other unnessecarly brutal and violent acts. nuff said: evil

tau work for the 'greater good' and the hopes of an ideal science fiction utopian society. they strive to bring peace, order and harmony to a galaxy plagued by war, violence and hatred between races. probably a futile and hopless task but a noble cause nonetheless. I'd rate the tau as good, although probably slightly disillusioned and misguided.

Irdiumstern wrote:Eldar will murder anyone else to keep their race alive, therefore Evil.

The only "good" races are the Nids and Orks, because neither actually has any sort of morality.

Self-preservation is evil?

Do tell me, if a guy charges my family with a knife and I blow his brains out am I evil? Or would the good thing be to watch my family die in front of me? This is exactly what you're suggesting the Eldar should do to be 'good'.

The Imperium is the same way with a big dose of traumatic history thrown in for good measure. They are both struggling to survive and keep their people alive. Nothing evil about that.

Tau are seeking to expand and oppress. Imperium and Eldar are all about survival an preservation. So Tau are more evil than Eldar or the Imperium.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Tau are seeking to expand and oppress. Imperium and Eldar are all about survival an preservation. So Tau are more evil than Eldar or the Imperium.

Original Tau designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.(emphasis by me)

If in doubt, believe the people who created this race.

Luco wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Eldar will murder anyone else to keep their race alive, therefore Evil.

The only "good" races are the Nids and Orks, because neither actually has any sort of morality.

Self-preservation is evil?

Do tell me, if a guy charges my family with a knife and I blow his brains out am I evil? Or would the good thing be to watch my family die in front of me? This is exactly what you're suggesting the Eldar should do to be 'good'.

Except that isn't exactly what the eldar do. If you were an eldar, you would manipulate the knife-guy in such a way that he never even meets your family, but goes on to murder 10 other, also innocent families. But, hey, you don't care, it was somebody else, not yout. That's how the eldar roll. They would gladly sacrifice a human world of millions in order to save an exodite colony of a few hundred.

ashrog wrote:

Luco wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Eldar will murder anyone else to keep their race alive, therefore Evil.

The only "good" races are the Nids and Orks, because neither actually has any sort of morality.

Self-preservation is evil?

Do tell me, if a guy charges my family with a knife and I blow his brains out am I evil? Or would the good thing be to watch my family die in front of me? This is exactly what you're suggesting the Eldar should do to be 'good'.

Except that isn't exactly what the eldar do. If you were an eldar, you would manipulate the knife-guy in such a way that he never even meets your family, but goes on to murder 10 other, also innocent families. But, hey, you don't care, it was somebody else, not yout. That's how the eldar roll. They would gladly sacrifice a human world of millions in order to save an exodite colony of a few hundred.

If we're going there the ten people he kills were also going to kill the family at a later date. Don't forget that humans are a threat to the Eldar as well.

Nobody. Certainly not Tau.

Tau are "good" in the sense that they stick "Join us or" before "die".

So does the Imperium if you're human, or an alien which can't pose a threat to the Imperium and has something valuable to provide (like the Jokaero).

@OP- it is polls like this one where there initial post has a definitive bias for the Tau that makes people dislike the Tau and most of their players. Way to help the cause, bro.

I didn't vote because there isn't an "all of the above" or a "good and evil are subjetive" option.

A lot of people forget that the Imperium has xeno protectorates under its wing...

Psssh Screw The Greater Good I Say!

I could see the Tau becoming a protectorate. The Imperium realizes that it would be useful if they help the Tau to expand across the fronteir and to vastly increase their number.

This would be because the Tyranids absorb the physical characteristics of their enemies and that fighting nothing but Tau would make the 'Nids slower, weaker and shorter lived.

Im pretty sure the nids only absorb the positive characteristcs of raches they find. So all they would really get from the Tau would be, the ability to build vehicles with very clean lines.

Here's my opinion of each race. Besides Chaos, Dark Eldar and Necrons, who are just pure evil, each race is evil but also not.

Imperium: They fight to survive and prosper while serving the Emperor. However, they are incredibly racist and will destroy entire worlds for the sake of their empire.
Eldar: They are trying to rid the galaxy of Chaos and Necrons while simultaneously keeping themselves alive as long as possibile. Their methods of doing so can be rather evil though.
Orks: They fight, they kill, they fight some more. Evil? Yes. But they can't help it. That's how they were genetically programmed. It's in their nature to fight and kill. You can't fight nature.
Tyranids: They destroy entire worlds. But they do so in order for their own race to survive. They don't eat, they all die. It's just in their nature to devour everything.
Tau: They are trying to conquer the galaxy and bring an age of peace "For the Greater Good." But how they do that can be very evil. "Join us or die." "Everyone is equal, but Tau are more equal than you."

The way I see the Warhammer universe is there is no black and white. Just black and mixed shades of grey.

Melissia wrote:A lot of people forget that the Imperium has xeno protectorates under its wing...

Imperial Protectorates aren't like modern day ones. It's more like "we'll kill you later when we have troops to pull off the line from fighting somewhere more important." They're more like Quarantine zones. Jokearo are a special case because as you pointed out it can be argued that they are not sentient and pose no risk.

Catyrpelius wrote:Im pretty sure the nids only absorb the positive characteristcs of raches they find. So all they would really get from the Tau would be, the ability to build vehicles with very clean lines.

And pheremones, and extremely persuasive negotiators, and instinctive space pilots, and dedicated warriors, and the ability to do with very little sleep, and resistance to desert conditions, and adaptability to lots of other conditions.

However they have already eaten one Tau so they have all this already.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:A lot of people forget that the Imperium has xeno protectorates under its wing...

Imperial Protectorates aren't like modern day ones. It's more like "we'll kill you later when we have troops to pull off the line from fighting somewhere more important." They're more like Quarantine zones. Jokearo are a special case because as you pointed out it can be argued that they are not sentient and pose no risk.

And if other xeno species prove they are no risk, then they too would be under the same situation. Tau obviously can't prove that.

Not if they're sentient. Otherwise they'll end up with another Tau situation. Jokearo are pretty unique in that they are monkeys that can make microcircuitry.

Kroothawk wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Tau are seeking to expand and oppress. Imperium and Eldar are all about survival an preservation. So Tau are more evil than Eldar or the Imperium.

Original Tau designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.(emphasis by me)

If in doubt, believe the people who created this race.

Xenos lies and you know it!

Luco wrote:

ashrog wrote:

Luco wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Eldar will murder anyone else to keep their race alive, therefore Evil.

The only "good" races are the Nids and Orks, because neither actually has any sort of morality.

Self-preservation is evil?

Do tell me, if a guy charges my family with a knife and I blow his brains out am I evil? Or would the good thing be to watch my family die in front of me? This is exactly what you're suggesting the Eldar should do to be 'good'.

Except that isn't exactly what the eldar do. If you were an eldar, you would manipulate the knife-guy in such a way that he never even meets your family, but goes on to murder 10 other, also innocent families. But, hey, you don't care, it was somebody else, not yout. That's how the eldar roll. They would gladly sacrifice a human world of millions in order to save an exodite colony of a few hundred.

If we're going there the ten people he kills were also going to kill the family at a later date. Don't forget that humans are a threat to the Eldar as well.

Not necessarily. The Eldar don't care whether those ten other families were friends, enemies or completely unconnected, so long as it isn't Eldar that are biting the dust they're happy.

And apart from the previous colonisation of Eldar Maiden worlds, which can't be helped due to the ignorance of humans regarding the fertile nature of the planet, the Imperium has a "let sleeping dogs lie" approach towards Eldar, mainly becuase the last time they tried torching a Craftworld they lost the better half of a sector fleet. In this regard humans aren't the biggest threat Eldar have to face, and act as a sort of shield against those very real enemies.

mankind rules the stars!

physcosamatic wrote:mankind rules the stars!

For now......

Actually Orks rule the stars.

Orks hold the most "territory" in 40k, and are the most populous.

Death to all the Heretics that did not vote Imperium