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I lost a scatter dice and about 9 dice yesterday. I gained a Grot I found on one of the bigger tables though

Since I had a good look at mattyrm's models and discussed painting them with him, I can confirm he painted them himself and 7/10 is about right for them.

Ian Sturrock wrote:Oh! Did anyone pick up an extra green AOBR template? Mine vanished yesterday.

mercer wrote:I lost a scatter dice and about 9 dice yesterday. I gained a Grot I found on one of the bigger tables though

Have you fellers asked anyone from Middlesborough, I hear that they are good at finding "mislaid" stuff

notprop wrote:

Ian Sturrock wrote:Oh! Did anyone pick up an extra green AOBR template? Mine vanished yesterday.

mercer wrote:I lost a scatter dice and about 9 dice yesterday. I gained a Grot I found on one of the bigger tables though

Have you fellers asked anyone from Middlesborough, I hear that they are good at finding "mislaid" stuff

RACIST!



@Ian Sturrock - I've checked my box, only got my templates in there. In fact, I don't think we used any in our games did we?

everyone got really high sportsmen ship scores

now forgive me if i am wrong but i always score it like so

1.witch
2.bit of an arse
3.normal
4.nicer then normal
5.really really enjoyable/nice guy

it seems alot of people mark a 5 as standard am i too harsh on people?

1 point after the first game, last place found :(
Played Yiawchuah first, couldn't have probably been a much worse place to start. Thankfully him being the overall winner and a completely great person gives me plenty of excusses for that little loss.
My total lack of anything in the way of luck in that game and the fact that I read the mission wrong and put 4 objectives on the board instead of 2 probably didn't help in the least.

Thankfully after that managed to pull it around and finsihed just higher than middle of the board. Respectable.

Best maybe not to mention that I played mattyrm for the last game. Oh s**t.

croggy wrote:everyone got really high sportsmen ship scores

now forgive me if i am wrong but i always score it like so

1.witch
2.bit of an arse
3.normal
4.nicer then normal
5.really really enjoyable/nice guy

it seems alot of people mark a 5 as standard am i too harsh on people?

Nah, that's about right. I think we were just lucky in that most people were cool as feth. Certainly everyone I met.

The number of times my pen and flamer template were borrowed, I'm pleasantly surprised I still have them. I'll have to double check, but I may have more wound counters than I started with though...

Just uploaded my (small number of) pics of the weekend.
All taken during the third round as that was when I was sitting out.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-23704-10332_Silver%20Skull%20Aka%20Dakkadakka%20Goes%20To%20Warhammer%20World%20I.html

OK, thanks for that Lego, mattyrm's score has been updated.

As far as sportsmanship goes, that's about right (and what I put in the intro as a guide too, even though not many of you read it, you naughty people lol )

Something I'd definately do next time is come up with a better and clearer mission pack, both in terms of the introductory blurb and the missions themselves. This should make scoring easier, if nothing else...

I've got to admit I don't much like the concept of sportsmanship scores -- seems too much like a personality contest, and I'm not really qualified to judge that beyond "I liked this person as a gaming opponent" (5/5) and "I didn't like this person as a gaming opponent" (1/5). I didn't play any of the latter at the tourney, & have very rarely played any such people in my life, so it was all 5s from me.

It would have seemed a bit churlish to say, "Well, this guy was awesome (5/5) but I spotted this guy looking grumpy once despite him being pretty awesome too (4/5)."

I think the problem is that 'I liked this person as a gaming opponent' is supposed to be 3/5, as most of us do enjoy playing against our opponents (whoever they are) most of the time.

4's (and in rare cases 5's) should be awarded to people who make the game experience much more enjoyable than normal, similarly 2's (and in rare cases 1's) should be awarded to people who make the game less enjoyable than normal.

It is awkward and entirely subjective (also open to abuse in the worst cases), but was introduced primarily to try and ensure that people would play the game in the right spirit - namely to have a laugh, whether you win, lose or draw.

Debate has raged on Dakka before - and doubtless will again - about the merits of sportsmanship scores and how they should be used, if at all.

If people have any good ideas, please let me know and I'll try and incorporate them into any future events.

Well, my opponents were all lovely.

I kind of agree with Stelek that good sportsmanship should be expected -- we're all there to have fun after all -- and poor sportsmanship should be cause for calling the ref/tourney organsier over.

TBH sportsmanship scores I think should be dropped. Should get points based on game play and painting only.


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My pics can be found here: http://s1022.photobucket.com/albums/af346/imperiusdominatusblog/Warhammer%20World%2010%20-%20Silver%20Sorcerer%20Tournament/

i like sportsm,en ship scores tbf because it does encourage people to be nicer but i don't like the idea of giving everyone a 5 just as standard

I've always wondered if sportsmanship might be better served by having a limited number of points to allocate (eg; 10 points) across all your games, forcing them to be divided up amongst 4 people, so that they cannot be evenly divided and the odd extra point can be taken or given to create more dynamic scoring without being rude or unfair.

Would just making it 0 or 1 work? (using Ian Sturrock's method of choosing - and multiply by 2.5 to make it out of ten). Looking at the scores - everyone would be on 10 - which is what I would have expected

I think a range is good. 1-5 gives you the option of scoring someone fairly accurately according to how you felt they were during the game without it being a massive deal.

The problem with sportsmanship, as I have said before, is that it is clearly too vague. It incorporates too many things and hides the details of the game.

I have always thought that a simple set of questions would be better, the opponent get one point for every answer that is positive form the other player. Also they give indicators to the organisers of potential future problems.

The Q's I came up with are.

Did you enjoy the game. Y/N
Was your opponent freindly and cooperative in all ways. Y/N
Do you beleive your opponent to have cheated in any way during the game. Y/N
Was your opponent competent with the rules. Y/N
Was your opponent playing fast enough for your liking. Y/N

That would be 5 questions, 5 possible points. This way it is targeted and likely to help players identify what is required of them.

Simon what do you think?

i think that the
"Do you beleive your opponent to have cheated in any way during the game. Y/N"

should be changed to

do you believe your opponent kept to the rules and played fairly at all times?

that way every yes could be classed as a point

i like it because means people with no social skills cant win, just like in life

mercer wrote:I lost a scatter dice and about 9 dice yesterday. I gained a Grot I found on one of the bigger tables though

found my arse he was the scenery lol

A couple of interesting points about sportsmanship.

I do like ceorron's idea of some kind of checklist, but even that is open to abuse. The problem is that having no sportsmanship points to reward good behaviour means that the only way to penalise poor behaviour is to have strict referreed yellow/red card or 3-strikes systems (or whatever) which are inherently confrontational and rely on judges assuming that people are doing something wrong and watching them in order to catch them doing it.

On the flip side, having points can lead to chipmunking, misunderstanding of scoring systems, etc, that give them such a bad reputation in the first place!

Much to ponder....

croggy wrote:i like sportsm,en ship scores tbf because it does encourage people to be nicer but i don't like the idea of giving everyone a 5 just as standard

Yeah, but you shouldn't need a point system to make arseholes into good guys - just plain sucking up to get more points.

The tournament should be about skill not about extra points for whose the good guy IMO.


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croggy wrote:

mercer wrote:I lost a scatter dice and about 9 dice yesterday. I gained a Grot I found on one of the bigger tables though

found my arse he was the scenery lol

So I found it then you was attempting to half inch some of it anyway

yes it should be about skill. and there will always be the guy who gives someone low when they were sound cause they want to win. But drooling mongs who get low sportsmanship score shouldn't be allowed to live, I mean win anything. just have an extra award for most battle points type thing, so sodding painting,sportsmanship, and all that jazz off. The social aspect is why most of us play, and its good to aid good play by rewarding it.

mercer wrote:

croggy wrote:i like sportsm,en ship scores tbf because it does encourage people to be nicer but i don't like the idea of giving everyone a 5 just as standard

Yeah, but you shouldn't need a point system to make arseholes into good guys - just plain sucking up to get more points.

The tournament should be about skill not about extra points for whose the good guy IMO.


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croggy wrote:

mercer wrote:I lost a scatter dice and about 9 dice yesterday. I gained a Grot I found on one of the bigger tables though

found my arse he was the scenery lol

So I found it then you was attempting to half inch some of it anyway

tru but it was much better stuck down than that grot lol

I think a separate score & prize for painting was great, even if I scored one of the lowest totals.

yeah,
I've put up my Tourney report
Panic @ SilverSorcerer

Panic...

croggy wrote:

mercer wrote:

croggy wrote:i like sportsm,en ship scores tbf because it does encourage people to be nicer but i don't like the idea of giving everyone a 5 just as standard

Yeah, but you shouldn't need a point system to make arseholes into good guys - just plain sucking up to get more points.

The tournament should be about skill not about extra points for whose the good guy IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

croggy wrote:

mercer wrote:I lost a scatter dice and about 9 dice yesterday. I gained a Grot I found on one of the bigger tables though

found my arse he was the scenery lol

So I found it then you was attempting to half inch some of it anyway

tru but it was much better stuck down than that grot lol

lol just about, you could have had the entire board if you wanted, I was thinking of backing the car up

Da Dark Angelz invade Silver Sorcerer 2010 (8 Mini Batreps, Pic Heavy!)