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My only concern for a July release is May was all 40K releases and it sounds like June will have a 40K flyer release with WD rules.
Would GW really do 3 Months of consecutive 40K releases?

I hope it will, i wanted to get the big rulebook for this edition but them my friend told me about this and told me to reconsider.

there is no "'ard boyz" this year....but "$'oft boyz" is a go.

The most likely release date would be the 7th July.

That follows all previous release dates for big releases (first Saturday of the month).

Mind if the June fliers release is true then that would mean that there would have been 3 Months of 40k releases, which hasn't happened for a very long time, so it makes one (either fliers or 6th Ed) unlikely this year.

Speculation here, but they could sit on the fliers and release them after 6th edition in the 2nd half of july. That way players get to read their shiny new rules first and will be more likely to buy them.

It appears to me that each edition in the rules changes the new 'hotness' unit for the game (it spurs sales, so why not?). Infantry were the go-to at first, then here recently mech has exploded with rhinos and chimeras everywhere (or raiders for DE, etc). Now with 6th looming, and the high $$ of big flyer vehicles, i suspect they'll get rules making them nearly as hard to deal with as the ones currently in Apoc. Consequently people will buy them up, as well as any new units with abilities able to 'counter' the fliers. more sales!

Either way i'm getting a storm talon or two.

Lepuke wrote:My only concern for a July release is May was all 40K releases and it sounds like June will have a 40K flyer release with WD rules.
Would GW really do 3 Months of consecutive 40K releases?

I'm pretty sure they have surpassed 3 months of consecutive Fantasy Battle releases since the new edition came out so hopefully they will! I was sick of the sight of FB during that time as there was so little 40k input in the WD's.

tetrisphreak wrote: Speculation here, but they could sit on the fliers and release them after 6th edition in the 2nd half of july. That way players get to read their shiny new rules first and will be more likely to buy them.

That would make more sense IMO, I can't see that they would bring out fliers without rules. If 6th is as close as people are generally saying, I doubt they'd publish WD rules for a unit type that will just get re-released a few weeks later in the rule book.

tetrisphreak wrote:It appears to me that each edition in the rules changes the new 'hotness' unit for the game (it spurs sales, so why not?). Infantry were the go-to at first, then here recently mech has exploded with rhinos and chimeras everywhere (or raiders for DE, etc). Now with 6th looming, and the high $$ of big flyer vehicles, i suspect they'll get rules making them nearly as hard to deal with as the ones currently in Apoc. Consequently people will buy them up, as well as any new units with abilities able to 'counter' the fliers. more sales!

Either way i'm getting a storm talon or two.

My theory is: Almost everything gets -6 (or maybe 12)" range and -1 BS when shooting fliers. They can't be assaulted by anything but Jump Infantry (good reason to make people by JI too ). It wouldn't really effect any existing units, but brings a completely new threat to the game that you convieniently need to invest in two new unit types for.

Can't wait

Gorechild wrote:

My theory is: Almost everything gets -6 (or maybe 12)" range and -1 BS when shooting fliers. They can't be assaulted by anything but Jump Infantry (good reason to make people by JI too ). It wouldn't really effect any existing units, but brings a completely new threat to the game that you convieniently need to invest in two new unit types for.

Except that daemons, whom are already in a pretty bad place, would be screwed utterly. And Razorwings and Voidravens with nightshields would be incredibly nasty. -12" to -18" range with a 36-48" range weapon

Elios Harg wrote:

Gorechild wrote:

My theory is: Almost everything gets -6 (or maybe 12)" range and -1 BS when shooting fliers. They can't be assaulted by anything but Jump Infantry (good reason to make people by JI too ). It wouldn't really effect any existing units, but brings a completely new threat to the game that you convieniently need to invest in two new unit types for.

Except that daemons, whom are already in a pretty bad place, would be screwed utterly. And Razorwings and Voidravens with nightshields would be incredibly nasty. -12" to -18" range with a 36-48" range weapon

Nasty? Or just finally worth 175+ points compared to the 115 point flickerfield ravager? I say the same regarding the doom/night scythes. AV11 is not very tough right now, and to pay 100+ points for something so fragile when compared to other skimmers in the codex doesn't make sense (A command barge is 80 points and has AV13, comparatively, or look at the 35 point av11 Rhino).

It's my belief after looking at many of the new books, all that include some sort of flier (harpys, too) that they are all overcosted currently. Giving a penalty to BS when shooting at them or a reduction in range (or both) would actually make them balanced for regular play, not overpowered.

tetrisphreak wrote:It's my belief after looking at many of the new books, all that include some sort of flier (harpys, too) that they are all overcosted currently. Giving a penalty to BS when shooting at them or a reduction in range (or both) would actually make them balanced for regular play, not overpowered.

I agree, with the exception of the vendetta, I think all the "flyers" are over costed to some degree atm. They currently have no advantage over conventional skimmers, but cost more and have the huge disadvantage of basically never getting cover.

Gorechild wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:It's my belief after looking at many of the new books, all that include some sort of flier (harpys, too) that they are all overcosted currently. Giving a penalty to BS when shooting at them or a reduction in range (or both) would actually make them balanced for regular play, not overpowered.

I agree, with the exception of the vendetta, I think all the "flyers" are over costed to some degree atm. They currently have no advantage over conventional skimmers, but cost more and have the huge disadvantage of basically never getting cover.

The cover issue goes both ways though. The targets rarely if ever get cover saves against the flyers. A rule that could be implemented easily enough though would be that flyers always hit models in their side armour (the top of the vehicle). That said, I don't necessarily agree that all flyers are overpriced. They just have a lot of abilities that are really situationally useful and have to pay for each one. I'm sure GW will make them slightly better but I also hope they don't go overboard and turn the game into an edition of spamming every slot full of flyers. Too many of them on the table at the same time doesn't even look all that good from a modelling and aesthetic point of view. The flyer base is a tad too big and takes a lot of space.

I'm already worried that my upcoming Necron army with six Scythe vehicles will look a bit weird, no matter how good looking the actual model on top of the stick will be. In hindsight, I would've prefered GW bring superheavies or semi-superheavies into the 40K rather than flyers. Actual flyers capable of space travel moving this slow on a miniscule battlefield is hard to comprehend (even harder than ordnance batteries having only slightly longer range than machine gun equivalents), and most of the 'cool' models like the Scythes can be done as skimmers on skimmer bases as well.

Why fliers in June? Simple. It allows them to do a preview of 6th rules, and build excitement for the new edition.

Didnt anyone see the leaked 6th ed? Were getting titans and super heavys but the rules are becoming a total feth up. i mean theres all this concealment 1 and concealment 2 and all these different movement stats for each unit type and this multi targetting rule ect ect ect.......

master of ordinance wrote:Didnt anyone see the leaked 6th ed? Were getting titans and super heavys but the rules are becoming a total feth up. i mean theres all this concealment 1 and concealment 2 and all these different movement stats for each unit type and this multi targetting rule ect ect ect.......

Most of us have seen it, yes. Most of us also think that those "leaked 6th edition rules" are BS.

We will NOT be getting titans and super heavies in normal 40k games and codecies. Those will stay in Apoc and Planet Strike games. Don't worry so much about the fethed up rules, man. They aren't real.

Too bad the rules were not real, could have been a big improvement instead of the boring 5th we have now.

Whats new today wrote:And in other news...

While it may be a couple of months off yet, the Events Team here at Warhammer World recently put up their tickets for the Design Studio Open Day, which takes place on July 14th 2012. At the moment the guys in the Studio have been keeping the events of the day very carefully under wraps and have covered everything in big black sheets to keep everything secret. While we can't tell you much about the event at the moment, those of you that were lucky enough to attend a Studio Open day in the past will know what a great day it is, especially when there are so many Studio personalities to talk to. Whether you're after painting tips from the Hobby Team or 'Eavy Metal, or you want to listen in on a few seminars run by the Games Developers, then this is the event for you. Tickets are available to order now, though here are only 450 available, so you'll have to be quick to get your hands on them.

What doe's this mean for the 14th?

kronk wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:Didnt anyone see the leaked 6th ed? Were getting titans and super heavys but the rules are becoming a total feth up. i mean theres all this concealment 1 and concealment 2 and all these different movement stats for each unit type and this multi targetting rule ect ect ect.......

Most of us have seen it, yes. Most of us also think that those "leaked 6th edition rules" are BS.

We will NOT be getting titans and super heavies in normal 40k games and codecies. Those will stay in Apoc and Planet Strike games. Don't worry so much about the fethed up rules, man. They aren't real.

I still think they're more real than the pile of gak that BoK and BOLS have been spoon feeding for the last week or so.

ShumaGorath wrote:

kronk wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:Didnt anyone see the leaked 6th ed? Were getting titans and super heavys but the rules are becoming a total feth up. i mean theres all this concealment 1 and concealment 2 and all these different movement stats for each unit type and this multi targetting rule ect ect ect.......

Most of us have seen it, yes. Most of us also think that those "leaked 6th edition rules" are BS.

We will NOT be getting titans and super heavies in normal 40k games and codecies. Those will stay in Apoc and Planet Strike games. Don't worry so much about the fethed up rules, man. They aren't real.

I still think they're more real than the pile of gak that BoK and BOLS have been spoon feeding for the last week or so.

Not even the rules, just the crap fluff. Xenos/Imperial alliances? Off of the battlefield? What else are they gutting out of our beloved gothic imperium. I believe the Russian word for my feelings on the fluff changes is razbliuto.

I've started counting down the days already, I'm so excited for 6th just as much as my nids will be

*************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
(Updated 05/05/12)
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There have been some updates to the Warhammer World calendar and events page recently so I thought I would resurect this with some updated information and more wild speculation.

The Cataclysm event is a 4 game 1250 point mini tourny presumably to encourage visitors from the open day to stay the weekend, no event pack so far.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=3500001§ion=&aId=20900013a

August 18th ( Imperial Armour Warmarch )
The Imperial Armour Warmarch event pack is quite interesting as it references the FOC several times for army building, assuming 6th edition comes out on the 14th of July and this was written for these rules then the FOC will be present in 6th edition.
As most will know the general rumor is a return to the 2nd edition40K/Fantasy style percentage based army construction, this event pack would suggest that a percentage based restriction is an addition to the existing FOC rather then a replacement.

Let the wild speculation begin!

this event pack would suggest that a percentage based restriction is an addition to the existing FOC rather then a replacement.

Let the wild speculation begin!

Wild speculation: If we keep the FOC as is and the percentages are 25% minimum in troops, 25% maximum in HQ, Elites, FA and HS, the following will happen:

Points limit will go up from 1750 or 1850 to 2000, because it's easier to calculate the 25% from 2000 and because you need more allowance to actually be able to take some non-troops. A 500 points cap in HQ will make some popular armies illegal: SW can't get two geared TWC lords and a Rune Priest, Necrons can't spend a lot on Royal Courts. A 500 points cap in HS and Elites will make even more armies illegal. Some examples and I'm sure there are hundreds: Three squads of Purifiers as Elites with their rides even with just five man squads is already over 600 points. Three Doom Scythes are 525 points. Two Land Raiders go over 500 points if you buy them extra armor. Three Trygons are 600 points, and two T-Fexes already 530 points. The only way to make most of this stuff legal would be to increase points limit to 2400 which might be too much for most 40K people all of a sudden.

The 25% minimum in troops will rarely effect much, since a lot of good stuff is troops these days.

Would those percentage caps added on top of the FOC affect the game in a significant way? Not really and noone should get too upset about it, but it might occasionally increase diversity in armies by a small margin. The internal balance of codex books improves when you add percentage caps or double or triple choice limitations, because often only one or two units are terribly overpowered in a popular codex and limiting the spending on a slot makes spamming a bit harder. It doesn't treat every codex fairly by a long shot, but none of GW's new rules do.

ShumaGorath wrote:

kronk wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:Didnt anyone see the leaked 6th ed? Were getting titans and super heavys but the rules are becoming a total feth up. i mean theres all this concealment 1 and concealment 2 and all these different movement stats for each unit type and this multi targetting rule ect ect ect.......

Most of us have seen it, yes. Most of us also think that those "leaked 6th edition rules" are BS.

We will NOT be getting titans and super heavies in normal 40k games and codecies. Those will stay in Apoc and Planet Strike games. Don't worry so much about the fethed up rules, man. They aren't real.

I still think they're more real than the pile of gak that BoK and BOLS have been spoon feeding for the last week or so.

It always sends a chill up my spine when we agree, Shuma.

I'm betting the new rules fold Apoc games into the basic rulebook. Much like WHFB has "legendary Battles" or whatever its called. Which would explain the Titans and SH rules being included.

Therion wrote:

this event pack would suggest that a percentage based restriction is an addition to the existing FOC rather then a replacement.

Let the wild speculation begin!

Wild speculation: If we keep the FOC as is and the percentages are 25% minimum in troops, 25% maximum in HQ, Elites, FA and HS, the following will happen:

Points limit will go up from 1750 or 1850 to 2000, because it's easier to calculate the 25% from 2000 and because you need more allowance to actually be able to take some non-troops. A 500 points cap in HQ will make some popular armies illegal: SW can't get two geared TWC lords and a Rune Priest, Necrons can't spend a lot on Royal Courts. A 500 points cap in HS and Elites will make even more armies illegal. Some examples and I'm sure there are hundreds: Three squads of Purifiers as Elites with their rides even with just five man squads is already over 600 points. Three Doom Scythes are 525 points. Two Land Raiders go over 500 points if you buy them extra armor. Three Trygons are 600 points, and two T-Fexes already 530 points. The only way to make most of this stuff legal would be to increase points limit to 2400 which might be too much for most 40K people all of a sudden.

The 25% minimum in troops will rarely effect much, since a lot of good stuff is troops these days.

Would those percentage caps added on top of the FOC affect the game in a significant way? Not really and noone should get too upset about it, but it might occasionally increase diversity in armies by a small margin. The internal balance of codex books improves when you add percentage caps or double or triple choice limitations, because often only one or two units are terribly overpowered in a popular codex and limiting the spending on a slot makes spamming a bit harder. It doesn't treat every codex fairly by a long shot, but none of GW's new rules do.

My thoughts exactly, the addition percentage restrictions would do well to curb extreme army lists although I would expect space wolves to get a larger HQ limit as that is part of the space wolves design philosophy.

Wild speculation: With an increased percentage restriction to the FOC you could open up the possibility of allowing slot trading as has also previously suggested in some rumors about 6th edition.
I am thinking of something along the lines of trading 1 elite or fast attack for a heavy slot with HQ and Troops locked to 2 and 6 respectively.

Oh and the last time 40K army lists were done in percentages it was 50% HQ 25% Troops 50% Support and Allies

Wild speculation: With an increased percentage restriction to the FOC you could open up the possibility of allowing slot trading as has also previously suggested in some rumors about 6th edition.
I am thinking of something along the lines of trading 1 elite or fast attack for a heavy slot with HQ and Troops locked to 2 and 6 respectively.

This would help a lot of armies in some small ways but there would have to be a cap (of one) on how many extra slots you can gain and trade, or it would lead to (for example) Necron armies that don't take elites units trading all the slots for heavy support so they can take all their Spyders as units of 1. Not saying this would be that terrible, but it's not needed either. It also adds some complexity to force organisation that I'm not sure GW would like. It quickly leads to cheap models that come in squadrons being taken as squadrons of one because slots aren't an issue, and a force organisation section that doesn't have any good units (Necron Elites) having all of its slots traded to the FA and HS sections. This is an imbalancing rule rather than a balancing rule. Squad sizes in general might get smaller too unless kill points are in 6th edition.

Oh and the last time 40K army lists were done in percentages it was 50% HQ 25% Troops 50% Support and Allies

I know and I can't see that working at all the way army books are structured nowadays. HQ isn't nearly as important as it might have been and like it is in WFB to warrant a 1000 points cap, and limiting elites, HS and FA to 1000 points total would be even more destructive for army books that can't get all the good stuff from the troops section.

Therion wrote:

Wild speculation: With an increased percentage restriction to the FOC you could open up the possibility of allowing slot trading as has also previously suggested in some rumors about 6th edition.
I am thinking of something along the lines of trading 1 elite or fast attack for a heavy slot with HQ and Troops locked to 2 and 6 respectively.

This would help a lot of armies in some small ways but there would have to be a cap (of one) on how many extra slots you can gain and trade, or it would lead to (for example) Necron armies that don't take elites units trading all the slots for heavy support so they can take all their Spyders as units of 1. Not saying this would be that terrible, but it's not needed either. It also adds some complexity to force organisation that I'm not sure GW would like. It quickly leads to cheap models that come in squadrons being taken as squadrons of one because slots aren't an issue, and a force organisation section that doesn't have any good units (Necron Elites) having all of its slots traded to the FA and HS sections. This is an imbalancing rule rather than a balancing rule. Squad sizes in general might get smaller too unless kill points are in 6th edition.

I would cap it at a single extra slot, that being said it would have a limited use on most armies which makes me wonder how plausible this really is.
Could be fun tho

Lepuke wrote:

Therion wrote:

Wild speculation: With an increased percentage restriction to the FOC you could open up the possibility of allowing slot trading as has also previously suggested in some rumors about 6th edition.
I am thinking of something along the lines of trading 1 elite or fast attack for a heavy slot with HQ and Troops locked to 2 and 6 respectively.

This would help a lot of armies in some small ways but there would have to be a cap (of one) on how many extra slots you can gain and trade, or it would lead to (for example) Necron armies that don't take elites units trading all the slots for heavy support so they can take all their Spyders as units of 1. Not saying this would be that terrible, but it's not needed either. It also adds some complexity to force organisation that I'm not sure GW would like. It quickly leads to cheap models that come in squadrons being taken as squadrons of one because slots aren't an issue, and a force organisation section that doesn't have any good units (Necron Elites) having all of its slots traded to the FA and HS sections. This is an imbalancing rule rather than a balancing rule. Squad sizes in general might get smaller too unless kill points are in 6th edition.

I would cap it at a single extra slot, that being said it would have a limited use on most armies which makes me wonder how plausible this really is.
Could be fun tho

Slot trading makes absolutely no sense though. Why have the force org at all if you can just push out slots you weren't using anyway to get more of the slots you were? Why not just make the force org cap at four instead? It's not like someones actually going to have to make tough choices in any army, no one is filling up 9 slots worth of fast, heavy, and elite. Even at 2000 that's almost impossible, so all "trading" does is make your preffered choice (I.E. heavy support) cap at four.

Having FOCs inaddition to a percentage system would be needlessly cumbersome, it just adds complexity for no real reason. The FOC system is flawed so I can certainly see this being amended at the very least and ideally wholly replaced by a % system.

I don't expect GW to do the sensible thing of course but I suspect that the FOC won't survive.

edit

Therion wrote:
Wild speculation: If we keep the FOC as is and the percentages are 25% minimum in troops, 25% maximum in HQ, Elites, FA and HS, the following will happen:

Points limit will go up from 1750 or 1850 to 2000, because it's easier to calculate the 25% from 2000 and because you need more allowance to actually be able to take some non-troops. A 500 points cap in HQ will make some popular armies illegal: SW can't get two geared TWC lords and a Rune Priest, Necrons can't spend a lot on Royal Courts. A 500 points cap in HS and Elites will make even more armies illegal. Some examples and I'm sure there are hundreds: Three squads of Purifiers as Elites with their rides even with just five man squads is already over 600 points. Three Doom Scythes are 525 points. Two Land Raiders go over 500 points if you buy them extra armor. Three Trygons are 600 points, and two T-Fexes already 530 points. The only way to make most of this stuff legal would be to increase points limit to 2400 which might be too much for most 40K people all of a sudden.

Your list here proves exactly why this won't happen. GW isn't in the business of limiting sales of their models. Now I'm sure there will be a move towards larger scale games, but not at the cost of limiting their high dollar kits to one or two per 2000 point army. If there are percentages, expect to see 50% in all categories with a 25% minimum on Troops.