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As regards the "Bjorn was around to see the Emperor, therefore knows what his intentions were" - well, the Primarchs themselves didn't know the big E's intentions or goals - and they were a damn sight closer to him than dear old Bjorn.

Just thought I'd point that out...

jhe90 wrote:
He walked up well beamed up, basically negotiated with people who never do. Far as I know of no other case on inquisition backing off from someone after they basically declare war on them.

Well, as I recall not all the Inquisitors present were happy with the hard-line maniac in command either. They were already planning some convenient accident for him when Bjorn stepped up.

 Troike wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 changerofways wrote:
"There are no wolves on Fenris".

What does this mean? I've seen this said quite a few times, but I've never understood it.

I believe it means the "wolves" on Fenris are actually degenerated human (and in some cases, failed space marine aspirant) mutants.

I thought it meant thousand sons liked to do mind-tricks on 40k fans !

TiamatRoar wrote:
I believe it means the "wolves" on Fenris are actually degenerated human (and in some cases, failed space marine aspirant) mutants.

Well, that's pretty disturbing. Though, having done some research, it seems that Wolves were referenced as being around on Fenris before the Space Wolves even set up there. Just another case of the fluff not quite meshing together, I guess. But I do like how dark the idea of Thunderwolves actually being former humans is.

Dark, + explain them when they say some wolves eyes feel almost human in the wiki when facing some

"There are no wolves on Fenris" is just Magnus being a pedantic twonk to show off his intelligence.

It means that the wolflike native fauna on Fenris aren't members of the Canis genus, and therefore aren't really wolves. They're just aliens of a similar shape.

 Psienesis wrote:
Basically that.

They are the Space Marine equivalent of dude-bros. Saying Eff tha Man!, waving their middle fingers around, downing "mad brewskis", banging dumb cheerleader bishes, and using "wolf" instead of "bro" as every third word in their language.

Lol if there was ever a title designed to get all the haters of Vylka Fenrika together in one place it was this. I see my favourite Heretic leading the assault as always.

* Signals the LongFangs to open fire.

 Imperious wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Basically that.

They are the Space Marine equivalent of dude-bros. Saying Eff tha Man!, waving their middle fingers around, downing "mad brewskis", banging dumb cheerleader bishes, and using "wolf" instead of "bro" as every third word in their language.

Lol if there was ever a title designed to get all the haters of Vylka Fenrika together in one place it was this. I see my favourite Heretic leading the assault as always.

* Signals the LongFangs to open fire.

To quote Creed: Just As Planned.

 Imperious wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Basically that.

They are the Space Marine equivalent of dude-bros. Saying Eff tha Man!, waving their middle fingers around, downing "mad brewskis", banging dumb cheerleader bishes, and using "wolf" instead of "bro" as every third word in their language.

Lol if there was ever a title designed to get all the haters of Vylka Fenrika together in one place it was this. I see my favourite Heretic leading the assault as always.

* Signals the LongFangs to open fire.

Prove me wrong.

The events on Armageddon that sparked the war between the Chapter and the Inquisition was a case of the Space Wolves failing to know their place (which is, to be polite, very poor form for an organization that is supposed to be cunning in its tactics and military nature) and, worse, downright moronic in its understanding of the insidious nature of Chaos, rather than leaving such decisions up to those who know better. More, their meatheaded response ended up getting more people killed than were on the transports, including at least one world sentenced to Exterminatus.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Imperious wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Basically that.

They are the Space Marine equivalent of dude-bros. Saying Eff tha Man!, waving their middle fingers around, downing "mad brewskis", banging dumb cheerleader bishes, and using "wolf" instead of "bro" as every third word in their language.

Lol if there was ever a title designed to get all the haters of Vylka Fenrika together in one place it was this. I see my favourite Heretic leading the assault as always.

* Signals the LongFangs to open fire.

Prove me wrong.

The events on Armageddon that sparked the war between the Chapter and the Inquisition was a case of the Space Wolves failing to know their place (which is, to be polite, very poor form for an organization that is supposed to be cunning in its tactics and military nature) and, worse, downright moronic in its understanding of the insidious nature of Chaos, rather than leaving such decisions up to those who know better. More, their meatheaded response ended up getting more people killed than were on the transports, including at least one world sentenced to Exterminatus.

The "those who know better" was in this case a man with no experience or preparation for what he was doing.
It was hardly moronic considering they intentionally had the battle away from civilians to protect them from the influence of Chaos.
Frankly the Space Wolves did their job to the letter while the Inqusition were off acting like Khornates again.

The "those who know better" was in this case a man with no experience or preparation for what he was doing.
It was hardly moronic considering they intentionally had the battle away from civilians to protect them from the influence of Chaos.
Frankly the Space Wolves did their job to the letter while the Inqusition were off acting like Khornates again.

The humans aboard those ships had seen a Daemon Primarch, had seen Grey Knights, and had seen Daemons.

Simply *seeing* a Daemon can get you Marked, possessed, tainted or otherwise corrupted.

Seeing a Grey Knight gets you killed (with full honors) if you are not a Space Marine. It gets you mind-wiped if you are a Space Marine.

Wiping those people out remains the only viable, sane choice when dealing with something as insidious as Chaos.

 Psienesis wrote:

The "those who know better" was in this case a man with no experience or preparation for what he was doing.
It was hardly moronic considering they intentionally had the battle away from civilians to protect them from the influence of Chaos.
Frankly the Space Wolves did their job to the letter while the Inqusition were off acting like Khornates again.

The humans aboard those ships had seen a Daemon Primarch, had seen Grey Knights, and had seen Daemons.

Simply *seeing* a Daemon can get you Marked, possessed, tainted or otherwise corrupted.

Seeing a Grey Knight gets you killed (with full honors) if you are not a Space Marine. It gets you mind-wiped if you are a Space Marine.

Wiping those people out remains the only viable, sane choice when dealing with something as insidious as Chaos.

Purely by chance it also seems like Khornate action.
Maybe, but the innocent civilians who saw nothing and got sterilised and essentially enslaved weren't corrupted.
I get that there's a chance of corruption but at the end of the day killing ALL of them is stupid and protecting them was both the right thing to do and the "job" of the Space Wolves.
If you want to stop the corruption you screen people kill the corrupted and leave the rest alive because that's the Inqusitions job. To PROTECT people and last time I checked killing was different to protecting.

Men must die so that Man can endure.

 Psienesis wrote:
Men must die so that Man can endure.

The guily, the heretics and the traitors? Yes. The innocent? No.

There is no such thing as innocence, merely degrees of guilt.

Well Psienesis is now officially an inquisitor apparently.

 Psienesis wrote:
There is no such thing as innocence, merely degrees of guilt.

By that logic even the Emperor is a heretic.

It's important to remember that, in the setting of 40K, there are no good guys. There are heroes aplenty, but what makes someone a hero is their actions, not the moral reasons behind those actions. In this, the setting is more like a Greek tragedy, wherein you have protagonists and antagonists, but the antagonists might actually be the "nicer" group and the protagonists a bunch of donkey-caves, but the story is told from the protagonist's POV.

The Inquisition is, indeed, ruthless. They have to be. They, and the Imperium, cannot afford to be wrong. While it's regrettable that so many had to die, it is a far better thing that a thousand innocents die than one guilty go free. If just one of those people aboard those vessels was tainted, it could have undone *everything* the Imperium had fought for on Armageddon, and the world would be lost.

The only solution, then, is to ensure that none that may be guilty survive. It's that simple. It's not a risk one can afford to take. As they say, mercy is the sin of the foolish.

There are many things the Emperor is guilty of. Hubris, most certainly. Over-reliance on his psychic gifts, to the detriment of his own planning and intellect, definitely. His belief that, somehow, quintillions of what are, basically, morons would not take up religions because he said not to would somehow refrain from doing so longer than however long he was standing in the room is another. For a smart guy, the Emperor could be a fething idiot sometimes... but, on the other hand, the plot requires him to be that way, otherwise there wouldn't be a 40K.

 Psienesis wrote:
It's important to remember that, in the setting of 40K, there are no good guys. There are heroes aplenty, but what makes someone a hero is their actions, not the moral reasons behind those actions. In this, the setting is more like a Greek tragedy, wherein you have protagonists and antagonists, but the antagonists might actually be the "nicer" group and the protagonists a bunch of donkey-caves, but the story is told from the protagonist's POV.

The Inquisition is, indeed, ruthless. They have to be. They, and the Imperium, cannot afford to be wrong. While it's regrettable that so many had to die, it is a far better thing that a thousand innocents die than one guilty go free. If just one of those people aboard those vessels was tainted, it could have undone *everything* the Imperium had fought for on Armageddon, and the world would be lost.

The only solution, then, is to ensure that none that may be guilty survive. It's that simple. It's not a risk one can afford to take. As they say, mercy is the sin of the foolish.

There are good guys as long as you don't think about things.

But in trying to stop Chaos they used Chaos. By this I mean that by killing the thousands they're essentially boosting Khorne intentionally or not.

pm713 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Men must die so that Man can endure.

The guily, the heretics and the traitors? Yes. The innocent? No.

Besides what Psienesis said about there are no innocent: yes, they have to die.

Basically, the Inquisition kills millions of "innocents" to make sure that billions will survive.

But in trying to stop Chaos they used Chaos. By this I mean that by killing the thousands they're essentially boosting Khorne intentionally or not.

By that logic, that's true of everyone and everything. The Space Wolves are no less guilty of this.

 Psienesis wrote:

But in trying to stop Chaos they used Chaos. By this I mean that by killing the thousands they're essentially boosting Khorne intentionally or not.

By that logic, that's true of everyone and everything. The Space Wolves are no less guilty of this.

Hm....backed myself into a corner there. I can't really deny that without getting immature.

pm713 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

But in trying to stop Chaos they used Chaos. By this I mean that by killing the thousands they're essentially boosting Khorne intentionally or not.

By that logic, that's true of everyone and everything. The Space Wolves are no less guilty of this.

Hm....backed myself into a corner there. I can't really deny that without getting immature.

Don't worry, immature arguments are the main product of this forum .

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

But in trying to stop Chaos they used Chaos. By this I mean that by killing the thousands they're essentially boosting Khorne intentionally or not.

By that logic, that's true of everyone and everything. The Space Wolves are no less guilty of this.

Hm....backed myself into a corner there. I can't really deny that without getting immature.

Don't worry, immature arguments are the main product of this forum .

True. In relation to my previous post: YOUR MUMS GUILTY!

pm713 wrote:
Purely by chance it also seems like Khornate action.

Forced sterilization and enslavement does not seem like Khornate action. Blood-spilling decapitation look like Khornate action.

pm713 wrote:
Maybe, but the innocent civilians who saw nothing and got sterilised and essentially enslaved weren't corrupted.
I get that there's a chance of corruption but at the end of the day killing ALL of them is stupid and protecting them was both the right thing to do and the "job" of the Space Wolves.
If you want to stop the corruption you screen people kill the corrupted and leave the rest alive because that's the Inqusitions job. To PROTECT people and last time I checked killing was different to protecting.

Have you missed the memo ? 40k is all about grimdark ! If there is something absolutely horrible, it needs to happen. Desperate measure are actually presented as necessary, xenophobia is encouraged as a virtue, and all that. That is just how the setting works. And depending on who writes the fluff, it is either more like a satire, or more like some genuine rationalization and justification for some pretty extremist political views. Yes, killing all those innocents is incredibly harsh, but it is 40k, it for sure will not end well, with a long lasting peace where the different party get to know and appreciate each other better and becomes friends and partners. Chaos is very horrible, and because of that one need to do very horrible stuff to counter it. Also, everything is decaying.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Purely by chance it also seems like Khornate action.

Forced sterilization and enslavement does not seem like Khornate action. Blood-spilling decapitation look like Khornate action.

pm713 wrote:
Maybe, but the innocent civilians who saw nothing and got sterilised and essentially enslaved weren't corrupted.
I get that there's a chance of corruption but at the end of the day killing ALL of them is stupid and protecting them was both the right thing to do and the "job" of the Space Wolves.
If you want to stop the corruption you screen people kill the corrupted and leave the rest alive because that's the Inqusitions job. To PROTECT people and last time I checked killing was different to protecting.

Have you missed the memo ? 40k is all about grimdark ! If there is something absolutely horrible, it needs to happen. Desperate measure are actually presented as necessary, xenophobia is encouraged as a virtue, and all that. That is just how the setting works. And depending on who writes the fluff, it is either more like a satire, or more like some genuine rationalization and justification for some pretty extremist political views. Yes, killing all those innocents is incredibly harsh, but it is 40k, it for sure will not end well, with a long lasting peace where the different party get to know and appreciate each other better and becomes friends and partners. Chaos is very horrible, and because of that one need to do very horrible stuff to counter it. Also, everything is decaying.

Tell me how Exterminatus and a near civil war ISN'T Khornate!

Yeah thats true.

Khorne is the God of violence and bloodshed. He is a martial god who thirsts for the clash of steel and the roar of cannons, and is most-exemplified in those warriors who take the lives of their opponents in the press of melee, where it is the strength of arm and the skill of the individual that decides who lives and who dies.

Wiping out thirty billion people with the press of a button and then walking away to make your 4:00 tennis game is not really Khornate.

 Psienesis wrote:
Khorne is the God of violence and bloodshed. He is a martial god who thirsts for the clash of steel and the roar of cannons, and is most-exemplified in those warriors who take the lives of their opponents in the press of melee, where it is the strength of arm and the skill of the individual that decides who lives and who dies.

Wiping out thirty billion people with the press of a button and then walking away to make your 4:00 tennis game is not really Khornate.

Isn't there a quote along the lines of "Khorne cares not whose blood flows"?

That is part of the line.

"Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, so long as people are killing and dying in his name!" is the full statement.

This implies that Khorne doesn't care if his followers kill or if his followers die, so long as those who claim to worship him are out there spreading violence and bloodshed. It does not, specifically, state that anyone anywhere who is committing violence and bloodshed is feeding him.

ETA: While I personally believe that the various Chaos Gods all get some microscopic amounts of power from anything anywhere that is part of their portfolios, which makes Chaos an incredibly insidious threat, there's not a consensus on that point.