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I don't play nids, but what you're saying Kwosge seems to be the opposite of what I've seen/heard to be true for nids. I did buy a large army of nids (which I traded) including 100 hormagaunts, and I was universally derided by people I knew for choosing them over genestealers with the current codex.

That said, if the rules are about to change, it's a whole different story!

Unrelated- I don't like the new model too much :-/. But new models of any kind are great! And as far as the comparison to lictors go... again I owned four of them but I never assembled them before trading them off. I loved the look. Is the bad rap because they can't be posed differently from one another?

Kwosge wrote:A genestealer list is a joke. It's a one trick pony unit. It eithor wins combat and then dies in the shooting phase thanks to no consolidation or dies in CC thanks to fearless rules. They cost more than a SM, have a lower armor save, no gun, bad rending and can't even use their I6 unless you take away their FTs. FT are their best upgrade.
I field 2 sets of 17 point stealers, one 7man FT and one 7 man FH, in my quior army and they don't last in CC unless they win CC and they have to do it alown because i cant risk Fearless wounds. Hormagaunts are better than genestealers. A tooled out 15 pt brood hits and wounds on 3s and has I5 with FHs and it's cheaper than genestealers and has 12" charge. That means one less turn hoofing it. The only reason to take genestealers over hormagaunts is because you don't need synapse or because of FTs.

What are you smoking? Horms beat Genes? Genes have Better WS, Better I, Better saves, better Ld, better everything except assault range. Plus they have rending and re-rolls.

^^^
who is going to kill more SMs? 200 points of 10 point gaunts assualting on tun 2 or 200 points of stealers getting charging after taking an extra round of shooting? It doesnt matter if they are better in CC when you stack them next to each other. 24" movement pluss FH means that they hit cc one enemy round of shooting before the stealers and do it with fewer casualties and more models. Thats more attacks and they are using their actual I round one and not round 2.

Edit: if you're being chased by MCs then whoever you're playing doesn't know what they are doing. Let me guess, a flying tyrant with 2 sets of STs and 2 CC fexes that are 115 points or ~200 points and then a dakka fex and or boom fex and a shooty tyrant and he fields the CC fexes as close to your tanks as possible. Nothing suports the other units and he probibly just shoots at the closest target. The flyrant dies after 1 round and the fexes are running throughout the entire game. Very bad list and very bad tactics.

The reason the swarm list is harder to beat is because units suport each other by default. Gaunts screen stealers and hormas. Tyrants and fexes shoot from behind and zoanthropes and warriors provide close support and synapse. it's a list that everyone knows how to play right. First the small stuff then send in bigger and bigger guys. The problem with the list is anti tank. You just dont have enough of it in a swarm army and it shows at higher point games when a SM kills off MCs one and a half per shooting phase thanks to ap2/3 S8/9 weapons.

I don't really want to spend the time necessary to go through all the logical flaws in that last post, but suffice it to say that you budding Tyranid players would do well to act like that message never existed. Do not use Hormagaunts. Use Genestealers. Enough said.

A tooled out 15 pt brood hits and wounds on 3s and has I5 with FHs and it's cheaper than genestealers and has 12" charge.

What are you wounding on 3's? Horms with toxin sacs are S4. No wonder you think they are better then stealers if you've been wounding MEqs on 3's. Course you also don't mention them being T3 and 6+ save either. I've seen horms taking no retreat wounds a hellava lot more then equal points in stealers due in large part to their crappier T and save. YMMV.

MilkmanAl wrote:I don't really want to spend the time necessary to go through all the logical flaws in that last post, but suffice it to say that you budding Tyranid players would do well to act like that message never existed. Do not use Hormagaunts. Use Genestealers. Enough said.

This is a completely accurate statement pre-5th ed codex. We'll see from there.

True. I'm really hoping the swarms come back in the new book. That would make my day.

Swarms are fine if they fix the hormagaunt ankles. Snap more easily than Michael Owen's.

Giving Nids the ability to consolidate into other units would make them unique.

Hollismason wrote:Giving Nids the ability to consolidate into other units would make them unique.

Unique only because Orks don't do it anymore.

How about give the tiny gribblies a rule preventing thier 'no retreat' wounds being transferred to more important creatures. The they could be cheap, cheerful and 'without number' without being MC death-traps. Or would tracking combat resolution become too involved?

I really don't think that'd be an issue. "I'm attacking this unit" doesn't seem like a terribly onerous thing to say before you attack. The fluff for whatever special rule they slap in practically writes itself, too. Hive Tyrants wouldn't be terribly bothered by a bunch of Gaunts getting splattered. Duh.

Personly horms die easy to any thing i have lost plenty of times to sm in combat but genstellers just get shot because every ones still afiard of them from 4th

I thought this section of the forum was for news and rumors. None of this banter is news or rumors, just pure speculation and rebuttal. Every time I get a message stating that there is a new reply I hope that there is actually something of substance to read only to be disappointed.

Shouldn't the better part of this thread be in rules discussion or you make the call

Well it did start as rumours and news. Since GW seem to be keeping the lid on the new nids it's likely we won't see or hear anything for another month or so (i.e, right before the release).

So, in the meantime we are seing how far off topic this thread can go before it gets locked.

Nope, have to keep it on-topic. These threads always turn into speculation and wishlisting, and we'll lock it when it gets out of hand.

There's always the chance a new nugget of info will make it into the thread as well.

It's hard to say what would fix Tyranids because there really isn't much wrong with the Nids. It is 5th edition that sucks. H2H has been totally ruined in this edition- therefore the H2H army suffers for it- but before the weekend Ork players start in- they get a whole lot for very little points- Tyranids- not so much.

I like the model! it makes me want to collect tyranids

robocarullo42 wrote:I thought this section of the forum was for news and rumors. None of this banter is news or rumors, just pure speculation and rebuttal. Every time I get a message stating that there is a new reply I hope that there is actually something of substance to read only to be disappointed.

Shouldn't the better part of this thread be in rules discussion or you make the call

Well, considering GW's kill all interest in upcoming Xenos policy, it's surprising they don't just make it somehow illegal for us to even talk about the upcoming Tyranid release.

H2H has been totally ruined in this edition- therefore the H2H army suffers for it- but before the weekend Ork players start in- they get a whole lot for very little points- Tyranids- not so much.

HTH has not been ruined by 5ed, just the nature of it changed. Finesse in charges and outnumbering has been replaced with emphasis on multicharging, and durability versus damage output. Just means the good HTH units have shifted a bit.

Yeah, it is like a laborinth trying to figure out what is going on with that model's limbs. Looks like a buncha lash whips with poodle weiners on the ends. I would be running back to the Citadel if some monsteres were chasing me with poodle weiner tenticles. "Sorry mates, the Emperor can bite it. I am not fighting what ever that thing is. My girlfriend would never kiss me again after that thing did what ever it is planning to do to us."

I'm really not that crazy about that new Tyranid creature. It's just...tentacles...haha.

"How does the shoggath get on the roof? Tentacles! (Tentacles!)"

Darth Bob wrote:
"How does the shoggath get on the roof? Tentacles! (Tentacles!)"

OH MY GAWD!! I quote that film all the time and nobody gets it, so you have just made my day. Thank you!

HalloweenBomber wrote:I like the model! it makes me want to collect tyranids

The other new plastic ones are better IMO.

Gargoyles are 10 in a box.

Ravenors come, I believe in threes.

Tyrgons are 1 per box.

That is welcome information indeed!

...anyone actually got pictures?

reds8n wrote:

HalloweenBomber wrote:I like the model! it makes me want to collect tyranids

The other new plastic ones are better IMO.

Gargoyles are 10 in a box.

Ravenors come, I believe in threes.

Tyrgons are 1 per box.

Thanks

Any word on gaunts? maybe also 10 per box?

NAVARRO wrote:

Thanks

Any word on gaunts? maybe also 10 per box?

Would be nice, but as Gaunts are 4 to a sprue, not going to happen. Best we can hope for is 12, but I feel that to be highly unlikely.

winterman wrote:

H2H has been totally ruined in this edition- therefore the H2H army suffers for it- but before the weekend Ork players start in- they get a whole lot for very little points- Tyranids- not so much.

HTH has not been ruined by 5ed, just the nature of it changed. Finesse in charges and outnumbering has been replaced with emphasis on multicharging, and durability versus damage output. Just means the good HTH units have shifted a bit.

I see. So instead of H2H being about having a large number of attacks and good numbers of units (you know- like combat)- it is about how much damage you can withstand and how many people you are willing to fight at once? okay- thanks for agreeing with me.
I hear this stuff from time to time- people will tell me how good in H2H space marines are because of their toughness 4- and a 3+ save...I am just like wow- really?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will be really interested in seeing what they do to fix the nids in the new codex under the New H2H rules- If they end up excusing Tyranids by letting them consolidate into fresh units- I will feel it is a cop-out...I am afraid they are going to have Carnifex broods and make them a shooty army with some shock troop fighter types- and I will be sad....