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 ZergSmasher wrote:
As a Dark Angels player, I find that normal Captains just don't make it when I have access to characters like Azrael, Sammael, and Belial. They just don't bring much to the table that one of those three don't also bring in addition to more. A more melee-oriented Chapter like Blood Angels or Space Wolves can get more mileage out of the classic "Smash Captain" build, but DA don't need one. In 8th I used to run the Phobos Captain partly for sniper duty alongside three Eliminator units, but I have yet to put him on a table in 9th. Of course, the vast majority of games I play are super competitive, either tournaments or tournament practice, so maybe if I played in more casual settings I'd bust out the generic Captains just because their models are awesome.

So, named characters before any of the Captain choices? What if you're doing a successor (i.e. no special characters)?

On the same topic, I'm seeing lots of discussion in this thread over the Chapter Tactics of the "main" chapters, but nothing regarding the successor tactics. Do people actually take successor tactics or do they just take Dark Angels, Space Wolves, White Scars, etc?

Arcanis161 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
As a Dark Angels player, I find that normal Captains just don't make it when I have access to characters like Azrael, Sammael, and Belial. They just don't bring much to the table that one of those three don't also bring in addition to more. A more melee-oriented Chapter like Blood Angels or Space Wolves can get more mileage out of the classic "Smash Captain" build, but DA don't need one. In 8th I used to run the Phobos Captain partly for sniper duty alongside three Eliminator units, but I have yet to put him on a table in 9th. Of course, the vast majority of games I play are super competitive, either tournaments or tournament practice, so maybe if I played in more casual settings I'd bust out the generic Captains just because their models are awesome.

So, named characters before any of the Captain choices? What if you're doing a successor (i.e. no special characters)?

On the same topic, I'm seeing lots of discussion in this thread over the Chapter Tactics of the "main" chapters, but nothing regarding the successor tactics. Do people actually take successor tactics or do they just take Dark Angels, Space Wolves, White Scars, etc?

Successor tactics just don't seem as strong overall, but then I'm not super good at finding out all the "wombo combos" so maybe there are some really good ones in there. I do know that for Dark Angels specifically, you get some powerful special rules if you are either actual Dark Angels or a successor with the "Inheritors of the Primarch" tactic, namely Inner Circle and Jink on appropriate units. And of course as you mentioned, successors don't get the special characters.

If for some reason I wanted to run Dark Angels Successors, one of my first choices for a Captain would be the Captain on Bike, because he's mobile, has more wounds, and can be tooled up for nearly any job. To me, lack of mobility is one of the main weaknesses of all the flavors of Primaris Captains, although I suppose you could stick one in an Impulsor along with Bladeguard Vets or Intercessors or something. I would love to see a Primaris Captain with a bike or jump pack, but it's probably not going to happen real soon.

Arcanis161 wrote:
What Captains are people running with? Seems like all the Primaris ones are meant as support at different parts of the battlefield (i.e. choose your troops/specialists/chapter first, then get the appropriate Primaris Captain) while the Firstborn are meant as either a slightly cheaper Captain or as a beat stick.

For Salamanders, I think it's hard to beat a Captain on bike with a thunder hammer, Rites, and all the stuff to make him durable. Fast, punchy, hard to kill, and doling out ObSec makes for a very efficient HQ.

For my ravengaurd successors in the GT this weekend (although I didn't do great, I hit some VERY damn good opponents) I had a chaptermaster / captain with jump pack and stormshield and powerfist. His relic was the angel artifice armor that gives him +1W and +1T and 2+/5++ saves,
Result was, he is a six wound monster T5 guy with a 2+ save that you get a +1 on the save (From the shield) so he was incredibly resilient. With his ability to infiltrate a full move (about 16 inches) and then to jump another 12 for his firs turn move, I was able to get him where I needed him every game -- and back out again in a pinch. He could melee with impunity against 10 times his number of enemy marines, even shrugged off a few powerfists that landed.
The lieutenant carried my master of ambush (also a jumper) and would bring six aggressors with him, result being, I could get both full reroll hits and reroll 1's on my aggressors on turn 1 ... or start them in hiding. Some phobos troops to support, it could make a decent beachhead in the midfield.
It was a good combo. Lieutenant also carried teeth of terra (made great use of it) and a combimelta (shot down a valkyrie, of all things.) It was a very mobile command wing, and I recommend that highly. I recommend storm of fire for the captain, as well, giving that aggressor combo chapter master level rerolls on a six unit squad was an awesome deathtrap for an entire army of nids. It was useful because I got to reroll a lot (nids had a -1 to be hit working) and the CM reroll is all misses -- but any natural six to hit, an extra point of ap. So it was a LOT of them.

This is a mobile (if not quite salamander mobile) guy who in my successor trait had the ability to fall back and charge again (trait one) and the ability to +1 to attack rolls in melee when charging (trait 2). Given he can't shoot much other than krak grenades, he still is a melee monster with his punchyfist.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
As a Dark Angels player, I find that normal Captains just don't make it when I have access to characters like Azrael, Sammael, and Belial. They just don't bring much to the table that one of those three don't also bring in addition to more. A more melee-oriented Chapter like Blood Angels or Space Wolves can get more mileage out of the classic "Smash Captain" build, but DA don't need one. In 8th I used to run the Phobos Captain partly for sniper duty alongside three Eliminator units, but I have yet to put him on a table in 9th. Of course, the vast majority of games I play are super competitive, either tournaments or tournament practice, so maybe if I played in more casual settings I'd bust out the generic Captains just because their models are awesome.

So, named characters before any of the Captain choices? What if you're doing a successor (i.e. no special characters)?

On the same topic, I'm seeing lots of discussion in this thread over the Chapter Tactics of the "main" chapters, but nothing regarding the successor tactics. Do people actually take successor tactics or do they just take Dark Angels, Space Wolves, White Scars, etc?

Successor tactics just don't seem as strong overall, but then I'm not super good at finding out all the "wombo combos" so maybe there are some really good ones in there. I do know that for Dark Angels specifically, you get some powerful special rules if you are either actual Dark Angels or a successor with the "Inheritors of the Primarch" tactic, namely Inner Circle and Jink on appropriate units. And of course as you mentioned, successors don't get the special characters.

If for some reason I wanted to run Dark Angels Successors, one of my first choices for a Captain would be the Captain on Bike, because he's mobile, has more wounds, and can be tooled up for nearly any job. To me, lack of mobility is one of the main weaknesses of all the flavors of Primaris Captains, although I suppose you could stick one in an Impulsor along with Bladeguard Vets or Intercessors or something. I would love to see a Primaris Captain with a bike or jump pack, but it's probably not going to happen real soon.

It really depends on your chapter and the supplements. ultramarine and BA DA and SW are all likely to play core chapter because the host of Special characters. Iron hands and salamanders will play their core chapter because their tactics are strong.

Traditionally WS would be a good example of one where there aren't a host of unique units and the chapter tactic wasn't great so you would often successor it and just use their cool relics and strats

Arcanis161 wrote:


So, named characters before any of the Captain choices? What if you're doing a successor (i.e. no special characters)?

On the same topic, I'm seeing lots of discussion in this thread over the Chapter Tactics of the "main" chapters, but nothing regarding the successor tactics. Do people actually take successor tactics or do they just take Dark Angels, Space Wolves, White Scars, etc?

I saw a list with a lot of thunderhammers/powerfists where the player took Heroes of the Chapter to offset the -1 to hit with those weapons.

A similar list paired White Scars successor with Whirlwind of Rage because every extra D2 hit you can get is helpful.

IMO it's nice to see the successor tactics being more varied and balanced, instead of everybody just taking stealth and extra range. But also from what I've seen so far, people are taking successor tactics to support melee-oriented armies. Or maybe it's just that marines are having a phase where melee is strong and shooting is weaker.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:


So, named characters before any of the Captain choices? What if you're doing a successor (i.e. no special characters)?

On the same topic, I'm seeing lots of discussion in this thread over the Chapter Tactics of the "main" chapters, but nothing regarding the successor tactics. Do people actually take successor tactics or do they just take Dark Angels, Space Wolves, White Scars, etc?

I saw a list with a lot of thunderhammers/powerfists where the player took Heroes of the Chapter to offset the -1 to hit with those weapons.

A similar list paired White Scars successor with Whirlwind of Rage because every extra D2 hit you can get is helpful.

IMO it's nice to see the successor tactics being more varied and balanced, instead of everybody just taking stealth and extra range. But also from what I've seen so far, people are taking successor tactics to support melee-oriented armies. Or maybe it's just that marines are having a phase where melee is strong and shooting is weaker.

A lot of that has to do with the 9th ed tournament missions. A lot of people locally are moving towards melee heavy builds as people are realizing that melee is very strong in that format. It is not just marine players either.

Heading to a tournament with Ultramarines. How many Eradicators should I bring? I tried out a list with 6, but between them and Guilliman it ended up eating up so many points I had trouble having any board presence at 2k. The list was close to:

Guilliman
Tigurius
Primaris Techmarine

3 squads of intercessors

Bladeguard Vets
Chief Apoc
2 Redemptor Dreads

2 squads of Eradicators

Impulsor

I'm thinking about dropping 1 squad of Eradicators and bringing either Aggressors or assault marines

I think you might have too many points in characters. 4 Characters with 2 being expensive named character is eating into your board presence.

Keramory wrote:
Heading to a tournament with Ultramarines. How many Eradicators should I bring? I tried out a list with 6, but between them and Guilliman it ended up eating up so many points I had trouble having any board presence at 2k. The list was close to:

Guilliman
Tigurius
Primaris Techmarine

3 squads of intercessors

Bladeguard Vets
Chief Apoc
2 Redemptor Dreads

2 squads of Eradicators

Impulsor

I'm thinking about dropping 1 squad of Eradicators and bringing either Aggressors or assault marines

Of you are going up to win the tournament, 6 Eradicators isn't too many tbh. Instead, maybe you want to drop Guilliman to bring more bodies on board. For example, you might want a CM and Lt. instead.

l consider losing the intercessers for 3 x 5 man incursors. Their scout move setup may give you a lot of primary and they are able to strat a minus 1 to hit... Makes them hold better than intercessers

I hate to ask this here but I’m a bit confused about the points cost on Predators. Do I pay twice for the lascannon and heavy bolter upgrades when I want those sponsons?

I have a game coming up against a firstborn list designed to kill space marines. I’m expecting a lot of heavy bolters, plasma guns, two units of terminators and maybe a land raider. Another main opponent of mine is Custodes with a lot of sword and board guys backed up by all the dreadnaughts, Trajan, and maybe a land raider or some Sisters to combat my Deathwatch’s new psychic shenanigans.

I have access to only Vanguard Vets and Deathwatch Vets and I’m scared against both these lists I won’t be able to do enough damage while they’ll be able to pop a marine with every wound it seems like. My thoughts are to try some new secondaries that might keep me in my transports (a Corvus and Rhino) but that’s a lot of stuff hiding off the board not doing much. My kill teams are mostly going plain Power Sword+Boltgun w/ a couple SS, maybe Heavy Thunder Hammers sprinkled in could help? The Marine list will definitely have Contemptors too, so I feel like that’s my only hope against these Dreadnaughts, but they are so tough nowadays.

Any pointers would be great, even some future thoughts as to what Primaris Kill teams I could put together?

Are there any hidden characters in the SM or SW armies? I know venerable dreadnoughts have been characters back in the day. Tyranids have had trygon primes as characters. Do anybody know? I have not found any.

Blood angels and flesh tearers have librarian dreadnoughts that are characters if that is what you mean but they are not available to all SM chapters

For now they do. They could make them Elite slots like they turned the Wraithseer into an HS slot recently.

SW has a bjorn character dread in a command slot.
IH can make any 9 or fewer wound dread (but only one of them) into a character. Contempter is a good candidate for this.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
SW has a bjorn character dread in a command slot.
IH can make any 9 or fewer wound dread (but only one of them) into a character. Contempter is a good candidate for this.

I'd vote Ironclad Dreadnought to be the best candidate. And put 3 Contemptor Dread in front of it to shield it with their 5++, and consider give the Ironclad Dread 5+ FnP. That strategies not only gives Character keywords, but also gives +1 to attack. So with 6A on the charge and 6dmg chainfist, it should be able to lay low an IK on its own.

That (plus the drop pod for dreads) does sort of soudn like an awesome alpha strike.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
The issue with marines is certain units are crazy points efficient, looking at eradicators, ATVs and apothecaries. If you spam those and "abuse" the power houses most armies won't fare well against that. Couple that with some powerful army wide buffs through chapter tactics, say White Scars, we got a pretty strong standing. If you just take a goofball "what i like" army, the rules are solid enough to give you a fighting chance but you sure won't auto win anything. If all armies were at that level (soon tm) noone would have to complain.

The apothecaries are fine points wise a s you can only have one “mater” one. You can only bring back one model a turn due to it being a strategem and so long as they are not 80 points like ATVs then there are no issues. In previous editions you could bring back multiple models a turn if you brought more apothecaries. I’ve stopped running one because I would rather just take another unit of intercessor who make a bigger impact during a game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dukeofstuff wrote:
For my ravengaurd successors in the GT this weekend (although I didn't do great, I hit some VERY damn good opponents) I had a chaptermaster / captain with jump pack and stormshield and powerfist. His relic was the angel artifice armor that gives him +1W and +1T and 2+/5++ saves,
Result was, he is a six wound monster T5 guy with a 2+ save that you get a +1 on the save (From the shield) so he was incredibly resilient. With his ability to infiltrate a full move (about 16 inches) and then to jump another 12 for his firs turn move, I was able to get him where I needed him every game -- and back out again in a pinch. He could melee with impunity against 10 times his number of enemy marines, even shrugged off a few powerfists that landed.
The lieutenant carried my master of ambush (also a jumper) and would bring six aggressors with him, result being, I could get both full reroll hits and reroll 1's on my aggressors on turn 1 ... or start them in hiding. Some phobos troops to support, it could make a decent beachhead in the midfield.
It was a good combo. Lieutenant also carried teeth of terra (made great use of it) and a combimelta (shot down a valkyrie, of all things.) It was a very mobile command wing, and I recommend that highly. I recommend storm of fire for the captain, as well, giving that aggressor combo chapter master level rerolls on a six unit squad was an awesome deathtrap for an entire army of nids. It was useful because I got to reroll a lot (nids had a -1 to be hit working) and the CM reroll is all misses -- but any natural six to hit, an extra point of ap. So it was a LOT of them.

This is a mobile (if not quite salamander mobile) guy who in my successor trait had the ability to fall back and charge again (trait one) and the ability to +1 to attack rolls in melee when charging (trait 2). Given he can't shoot much other than krak grenades, he still is a melee monster with his punchyfist.

Storm of fire only works on a wound roll of 6+. It no longer is based on the hit roll and changed in the new codex.

All I can say is, an honest mistake, but not one that swung anything crazily in my favor or against it. I was carrying that stupid book from table to table, but I confess I haven't had a chance to read the hardcopy line by line like I normally like to with a rulebook, so I plain had that wrong. I owe him an apology (but am relieved, sort of, that his nids still beat me by so big a margin I doubt he will care.)

Sigh.

Here's another question:

I am really, really liking the idea of 2x Incursors, 2x 10 man Assault Intercessors, and 2x Heavy Intercessors w/Helstorm Bolt Rifles, all with the White Scars trait.

Basically, the Incursors would work towards the midfield objectives, with Assault Intercessors as backup, and the Heavy Intercessors would hold the back field objectives (and advance forward if absolutely needed/if something else in the list is holding the back field objectives).

Maybe 2x 5 man Vanguard Vets with Lightning Claws to act as a rapid-response anti-troop blender as well.

I'd have to bring some fast moving HQs to support, maybe some combination of Captain on a Bike, Jump Pack Lieutenant, and Chaplain on a Bike?

I'd also obviously need some anti-vehicle, like Eradicators and/or Invader ATVs.

IDK though, it seems like I'm somehow wasting some potential here. What do you all think?

Hiii Everyone,

This is my first 9e list and first game coming up and since I am very green to 9e (took that covid break) I am having trouble calculating my cp. The core of my list which spends CP is this:

SUPREME COMMAND:

Lord of War: Roboute Guilliman <WARLORD>

BATTALION:

HQ
Chief Librarian Tigurius
-Might of Heroes
-Psychic Fortress
-Psychic Scourge

<140> HQ: Primaris Chaplain on Bike
-Master of Sanctity
-Hero of the Chapter: Wise Orator
-Relic: Seal of Oath
-Litany1: Recitation of Focus (+1 to hit)
-Litany2: Catechism of Fire (+1 to wound)

Elites

ELITE: Primaris Apothecary
-Chief Apothecary
-Hero of the Chapter: Selfless Healer
-Relic: The Vox Espiritum


So, its 12 starting CP for strike force? Then -3 battalion, -3 Gman (but this is a wash as he gives 3cp) putting us at 9cp, then 1cp extra relic, 2 cp for 2 extra warlord traits for a total of 12 - 3 - 1 - 2 = 6cp. Just want to make sure this is correct before my first match, any extra eyes on this would be helpful.

Radikus wrote:
Hiii Everyone,

This is my first 9e list and first game coming up and since I am very green to 9e (took that covid break) I am having trouble calculating my cp. The core of my list which spends CP is this:

SUPREME COMMAND:

Lord of War: Roboute Guilliman <WARLORD>

BATTALION:

HQ
Chief Librarian Tigurius
-Might of Heroes
-Psychic Fortress
-Psychic Scourge

<140> HQ: Primaris Chaplain on Bike
-Master of Sanctity
-Hero of the Chapter: Wise Orator
-Relic: Seal of Oath
-Litany1: Recitation of Focus (+1 to hit)
-Litany2: Catechism of Fire (+1 to wound)

Elites

ELITE: Primaris Apothecary
-Chief Apothecary
-Hero of the Chapter: Selfless Healer
-Relic: The Vox Espiritum


So, its 12 starting CP for strike force? Then -3 battalion, -3 Gman (but this is a wash as he gives 3cp) putting us at 9cp, then 1cp extra relic, 2 cp for 2 extra warlord traits for a total of 12 - 3 - 1 - 2 = 6cp. Just want to make sure this is correct before my first match, any extra eyes on this would be helpful.

If you have any Battalion of Ultramarine, the Supreme Command Detachment containing Guilliman immediately refund the CP you spent for taking detachment. And furthermore taking Big G gives you 3CP. So you actually have 15CP to start. Then you spend 2CP to give two other Characters and 1CP for extra relic. So at the beginning of the game you should have 12CP at hand.

@Neophyte2012

Thanks a ton! Turns out I was way off, this looks much better.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
That (plus the drop pod for dreads) does sort of soudn like an awesome alpha strike.

Wait wait wait, i can drop contemptors in dreadnought drop pod?! oh dear

Forgot to follow up on my tournament. I went 2-1 with Ultramarines.

Lost my first game to Tyranids of all things. Exocrenes murdered my primaris and dreads. Zoanthropes cleaned up. Poor positioning resulted in an insanely buffed HT moving twice with SL and eating Tig.

Second game was against DG. I rushed up the field with Bladeguard/Vixtrix/Apoc/Guilliman/Tig. Turned off a bunch of crab tanks invul with Tig and ate them. It was a close game

Third game was against the only other Ultramarine player. More or less shot him off the field, Guilliman blob didnt make it to the player before the game was more or less over.

What I learned. Redemptor Dreads are as good as you hear. Not game turning but durable and deal decent damage.

SR'ing Gravis units like the Eradicators wasn't all it was cracked up to be if people know what they're doing. Tyranid player pushed up on me to the point they couldn't come in and deal with the Exocrenes.
- Other games they did okay. Usually finding by the time I SR its a little late. Really need to get them in range near t1 or find a more reliable way for them to hit better targets on t2.

Aggressors are just bad now. Not "now fair". Not decent. They were a waste of points for damage output. Even with ap-1 in tactical. They were at least fairly tanky.

Guilliman blob rush is swingy but fun. Not the best tactical choice but I enjoy essentially playing Orks like I have a Ghaz blob with a LOT less models to have to set up and move within a time limit. Tig turning off invuls was probably the best part of any of my games.

Extra galactic existential threat. "Lost to Tyranids of all things" glad they've done such a bang up job with their narrative focused game.

 Eldarain wrote:
Extra galactic existential threat. "Lost to Tyranids of all things" glad they've done such a bang up job with their narrative focused game.

I am not suprised that Nidz pull up a win against Ultramarine, Nidz have the best shooting capability to kill SM, and Ultramarines don't have any means to shut that down quickily or have any tools to up their defence.

After being wildly disappointed with my current 40k army and seeing how much I would need to work to fix it for 9th, I figured I would just build a new army. That being said, I was wanting to go for a Mechanized Primaris army and am looking for some input/ideas recommendations. I have no idea what the meta will be because... COVID + new edition. But I am wanting to be able to compete reasonably competitively.

My first (spammy) draft:


Probably could use some more variety, but I am still trying to wrap my head around all the endless new options Marines got.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
After being wildly disappointed with my current 40k army and seeing how much I would need to work to fix it for 9th, I figured I would just build a new army. That being said, I was wanting to go for a Mechanized Primaris army and am looking for some input/ideas recommendations. I have no idea what the meta will be because... COVID + new edition. But I am wanting to be able to compete reasonably competitively.

My first (spammy) draft:

Spoiler:

HQ:
Primaris Captain
MC Power Sword, Shield
[110]

Primaris Lieutenant
MC Power Axe
[80]

Elites:
(6) Veteran Intercessor Squad
Power Fist, HBP/Chainsword
[142]

(6) Veteran Intercessor Squad
Power Fist, HBP/Chainsword
[142]

Troops:
(5) Assault Intercessor Squad
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
[110]

(5) Assault Intercessor Squad
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
[110]

(6) Incursor Squad
Haywire
[136]

(5) Incursor Squad
Haywire
[115]

(5) Incursor Squad
Haywire
[115]

Heavy:
Gladiator Lancer
Icarus, Auto Launchers
[210]

Gladiator Lancer
Icarus, Auto Launchers
[210]

Dedicated Transports:
Impulsor
Shield Dome, Ironhail
[130]

Impulsor
Shield Dome, Ironhail
[130]

Impulsor
Shield Dome, Ironhail
[130]

Impulsor
Shield Dome, Ironhail
[130]

[2000]

Probably could use some more variety, but I am still trying to wrap my head around all the endless new options Marines got.

What chapter are you playing? I think White Scar is best choice for your list with all those "chainsword Intercessors".

About the units. I think the Gladiator tank are just bad in current meta. If you do use White Scar for your army. I think it will be better to take multiple units of Attack Bikers Squads instead, maybe 2-3 units of three. They will do better than those tanks.