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I know several Tau players in the making. The other day I got a glimpse at a thread (that I can't find again) about certain Tau stuff being under powered, or over priced or something of that nature. I faced Tau in 3rd as Guard and always had a problem dealing with them; their long ranged guns murdered my Guardsmen and their seeker missiles did good damage against my tanks. It was a nightmare. But now it doesn't seem to be the case. What's wrong with Tau?

M.

Infantryman wrote:I know several Tau players in the making. The other day I got a glimpse at a thread (that I can't find again) about certain Tau stuff being under powered, or over priced or something of that nature. I faced Tau in 3rd as Guard and always had a problem dealing with them; their long ranged guns murdered my Guardsmen and their seeker missiles did good damage against my tanks. It was a nightmare. But now it doesn't seem to be the case. What's wrong with Tau?

M.

3rd ed Tau ≠ 5th ed Tau.

5th ed Tau are underpowered compared to newer codexes, half their Wargear doesn't work and 80% of the units are worthless.

5th ed Tau are underpowered compared to newer codexes, half their Wargear doesn't work and 80% of the units are worthless.

Completely correct. All 5th edition codices are better then everything else (particularly Humans), and Tau do have some problems dealing with it. That being said, They do have some potential, and with a proper list and a real threat still. Fire Warriors can take down most infantry fairly easily, particularly with markerlights, crisis suits have 3+ armor and multiple wounds, Broadsides and Hammerheads can make short work of most vehicles, but you do have to watch for morale - Tau are one of the few races left that are not fearless or ignore morale.

Well they can to an extend with a ethernal but once he dies then you remember why you NEVER take him.

My mech list does okay against my friends Blood Ravens, CSM and Tau but I do not use them at their full potential (I forget my upgrades at certain times to my disadvantage - Played a whole game forgetting most of my things had BS +1 ¬,¬)

I think right now the Tau fit their fluff very well. That being that the only reason they still exsist is that the Imperium on Man has better things to do right now.

On a serious not, they are a bit underpowered right now, but if you play the right list and are a good player you can still win.

Some Tau units are still very good - Crisis Suits, Broadsides, Hammerheads, Pathfinders and Kroot. Problem is, they're the only good units, so every army you see consists of come mix of those five, plus a minimum squad of fire warriors to satisfy the restriction. As said, half their equipment doesn't work / doesn't work like it was intended, the fact that area terrain no longer blocks LOS makes JSJ much less effective, and cover saves all round makes railguns less scary than they used to be, even with AP1.

The Tau have a lot of issues currently. You can still play a good game and do very well with the right build, but the issue I had is that there is really only one good build currently, and you have to play it very well. Mech up and run suits. It gets boring playing the exact same way every game against every single opponent. The Tau really need a new codex with some new options.

I love the models and I love the fluff, I even enjoy the playstyle. I just hate having one good build to go off of. It can also be a hard army for newer players to win with.

Tau have some good units, and can play a good game. The main problem isn't with their units (they do have some pointles units but most have their uses) but with their FOC. All the good units are in the same slots and some slots have very little use (FA is useless).

4M2A wrote:Tau have some good units, and can play a good game. The main problem isn't with their units (they do have some pointles units but most have their uses) but with their FOC. All the good units are in the same slots and some slots have very little use (FA is useless).

This is an excellent point as well. Tau forces depend on heavy and elite choices. Fast attack, troops and HQ are more or less useless.

What makes the fire warriors bad? Mind I don't have a Tau codex handy so I have to pester you with stupid questions. I remember they were BS3, which gives them a roughly 50% hit chance, and they're S5 AP5, which hits hard for a basic trooper. They can even glance on a die roll of 5 against AV10 and penetrate on 6's; given they can be in squads of 12, they can do this. Just can't take enough, maybe?

M.

Infantryman wrote:What makes the fire warriors bad? Mind I don't have a Tau codex handy so I have to pester you with stupid questions. I remember they were BS3, which gives them a roughly 50% hit chance, and they're S5 AP5, which hits hard for a basic trooper. They can even glance on a die roll of 5 against AV10 and penetrate on 6's; given they can be in squads of 12, they can do this. Just can't take enough, maybe?

M.

While fire warriors can shoot 30"... moving pretty much reduces it back to 12". Thanks to the run rule and armies with lots and lots of deep strikes... you'll get at most 1-2 rounds of shooting (3 if someone botches their run rolls). After that... pray to the dice gods in hand to hand

Now, if Tau could just have a 15" Rapid Fire Range with Pulse Rifles, well, that would add you an extra round of shooting and make FoF a viable tactic again!

FoF? Fleet of Foot?

I thought they did go back to 15"; weird that they don't. I do suppose they get quite a lot of deep strike thrown at them if they're a bother - it's very common in 5th for some reason it seems.

Also, squads of 8-12 fire warriors with stats around a guardsman (last I saw) vs getting a whole platoon of guardsmen...

M.

FoF= Fish of Fury. xD

With a 15" Range it would be a lot more viable.

Alas, GW hates making things cool and unique now.

Melchiour wrote: It can also be a hard army for newer players to win with.

I am such a person. and the only person i have beaten was tau also...
not to cool.

I do love the models look and the fluff though

Ugh my tau regularly have to fight infantry guard hordes, something they can't do anything about since any markerlights I have tend to be gone by the guards first shooting phase. Also flamer suits are just suicide...

While against any meq army I have used my vespid to great effect, overall the tau army forces too much for so little gain.

I kinda like using them in kill team missions, otherwise I feel I know the outcome of the next battle.

juraigamer wrote:Ugh my tau regularly have to fight infantry guard hordes, something they can't do anything about since any markerlights I have tend to be gone by the guards first shooting phase. Also flamer suits are just suicide...

While against any meq army I have used my vespid to great effect, overall the tau army forces too much for so little gain.

I kinda like using them in kill team missions, otherwise I feel I know the outcome of the next battle.

I have the opposite problem. I do well against hordes but not MEQs.
Although I don't have vespids (ordered them but they never came through.)
My crisis suits with flamers do amazingly well against them.

as a new player to Tau, I feel like they can be gold vs mech armies (even with the new cover rules) you still can pack in the railguns. Suits with plasma for meq, and there seems to be enough firepower to go around for hordes.

what I can see being the problem with Tau is their poor Force organization options, allowing them to field relatively few of the models you'd want.

Lucid wrote:as a new player to Tau, I feel like they can be gold vs mech armies (even with the new cover rules) you still can pack in the railguns. Suits with plasma for meq, and there seems to be enough firepower to go around for hordes.

what I can see being the problem with Tau is their poor Force organization options, allowing them to field relatively few of the models you'd want.

I run a list of;
3 devilfish with 6 FW in each,
2 HHs (1 ion, 1 rail),
1 Broadside team of 2 (2 shield drones),
2 crisis team of 2 (Fusion blaster, multitracker,Plasma rifle in team 1, missile pods and twin linked flamers in team 2),
Sha'el who goes in team 1 or Dependant depending on the situation (Plasma Rifle, cyclic ion blaster, stimulant injector ,hardwired Multitracker,
Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield drones)

It runs really well against Nids, IG and some SM (Depending on build). But I have a large problem mainly with CSM and Orks.
If I thought anything I would say I need more FW, but I choose the tank upgrades over it.

Tau can still win, but its not as simple as veterans, chimeras and vendettas, or anything like that. Its difficult to build a good list with them, and even then a less experienced player will give you a run for his money. They just dont have the equipment to get the job done as well.

This is rather unfortunate, as I considered a Firewarrior/Pathfinder heavy force based around close order firefights, utilizing a lot of carbines and mecha suits.

M.

R we shore that we should have close range firefights?
another problem is that they do the most damage up close but never enough to finish them off before they slay them in CC

Yeah this is something I noticed while browsing the current codex at a FLGS. A lot of the weapons are no longer ranged than any other standard weapon, yet the Tau lack the CC backup to have a contingency plan. Their big mechs have a nice anti infantry gatling weapon that has what, 18"?

Maybe they should just drop the whole "can't do crap in CC" fluff and 2 WS. You can make them a non-CC faction simply by not providing them with much in the way of advanced CCW's - no power fists, no power weapons, etc.

M.

This issue has been extensively discussed.

Most Tau players would rather solve the problem of being bad at melee by changing the army to let it more easily avoid melee by mobility and better firepower.

For example, two easy rules changes:

1. Let the standard Pulse Rifle rapid fire at range 15.
2. Let Tau units retreat from melee rather than have to charge their whole unit in.

Yeah, if Tau were to become good in CC a lot of Tau players (including myself) would look for a new army. Making them good in CC is just watering down the armies theme, they would be just a second IG guard army.

Tau should be given ways to avoid CC not tools to win in melee.

If Tau ever become good in CC, I'd probably quit 40k all together. I play Tau to shoot people with advanced weapons, Not to be a 2 wound Space Marine(crisis suits).

Tau don't need a contingency plan that is as Thought out as "ok. I can hit the with my super advanced weapon like a baseball bat, so I'm going to"

Two things that would fix Tau IMO would be

1 Pulse Rifle RF range of 15
2 Cheaper Fire warriors and bigger squads of said Fire Warriors.

IF Tau get anything good at CC it needs to be a 0-1 choice at best. I completely agree with the people who say Tau need a way to AVOID CC better. This is what I have wanted to see.

flechette drone - When your unit is charged by an enemy the drone intercepts the charge sacrificing itself to save the unit. In game terms it would detach from the unit and take the assault, keeping the unit out of CC.

Making them WS3 on average and not giving them CC weapon configurations of some kind isn't going to make them good at CC at all.

M.

No but a lot of Tau players don't want Tau to be mediocre at CC we want them to be bad. I play Tau and think they could use an update to make them competitive but I still want them to die just as easy once they get caught in CC. Ok at CC is too good for Tau. They need to be on level with the cheapest horde troops when it comes to CC.

What Tau could really use is a cheap unit of all drones that have decent to good survivability and no attacking ability. And, give them some special rule about small size and being disposable, and let Tau shoot into a CC they're involved in.

That'd keep Tau really bad at CC (as they should be), but allow for some blocking ability to keep them out of CC as long as possible.