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So what do you think? I'm starting to lose my faith in ork rokkits, not that I really exspected much in the first place with a BS2 ork behind the barrel. I tend to play a Kult of Speed style ork army, for the most part I don't have time to stand still (or walk) and fire rokkits anyways but the few places that I do see their potential value, like on my Defkoptas where they are twin-linked and have double the chance of at least doing something to an enemy tank, building more confidence that my buzzsaw will finish the job but, too many times I have had that fail me. You need pretty hot dice to hit, pen then, wreck. I'm thinking that my points are spent better else where. Lootas, PKs, Deffrollas and, Buzzsaws. These are the most "Reliable" armour busting ork products. If I have 3 defkoptas I can lose the rokkets and get two more Lootas, 2 I can get a deffrolla, 1 I'm sure my warboss or big mek could take some extra gear.

Anyways, maybe a bad string of rolls has caused me to lose sight of something good. Let me know if I'm right or if I'm missing something!

Happy Hunting!

Pretty much a waste, rokkits arent good with BS2

Only time rokkits are appropriate/semi are either Kans for BS3 or suicide koptas

Like you said, Deffrollas and Powerklaws. Ork shooting is all about quantity, so unless you're firing Rokkits out of every orifice, you don't have enough. Keep your Deffkoptas so you can have some flexibility, but don't bother with them otherwise. Rokkits can work, I've gotten them to, but an ork army needs to focus; your army doesn't need, and can't easily include, a lot of rokkits.

Well you have to have something to take out that blood talon totting, melta wielding BA dread...

Keep the deffcoptas then switch to big shootas on things like boys, I say.

kenshin620 wrote:Pretty much a waste, rokkits arent good with BS2

Only time rokkits are appropriate/semi are either Kans for BS3 or suicide koptas

Not entirely true. I personally take rokkit buggies instead of koptas. They are alot cheaper and I can field 9 if I wanted to. 9 Twin linked rokkit shots do some damage. But other wise your totally right. Rokkits on a boy? No friggin way, Id rather have a big shoota. Kombi rokkit? Really? Combi skorcha? Auto hits and burnanates anything with a 4+ save? Yes please.


The only time Ive seen the rokkit thing work is going over load. Rokkits on everything, trukks, rokkit wagons (the BW one) rokkit buggies. But that turns into the Ork thing, where if you go overboard on 1 type of thing, it works well. The problem there is all those rokkits are pretty costly

Well I forgot about them. If its TL then its fine

Rokkits work:
on Kanz where you have BS 3. They are also pretty much mandatory unless you want AI in which case you get Grotzookas.

on Warbuggies where they are TL and the model only costs 35 points. What KingCracker said

on Deffkoptas where they are TL and the model is ther basically to get one go at shooting and assaulting something vital. It needs all the help it can get!!

and on finaly on Tankbustaz. 13 shots (tankhammers) will yield results even on AR 13. But lets not discuss the merits and flaws of Tanbustas here as well

Some things to remember
1) TLing BS2 actually makes it superior to BS3 for average # of hits.
2) BS2 means you only need 2x the number of shots to match a SM's BS4. All things being equal, 8 rokkits will yield the same average results as a 4 Missile Dev/Havoc/Long Fang squad (not counting the Frag rounds naturally).

If you are taking a large nob squad with wound allocation, it is probably worth it to bring some combi-rokkits with ammo runt(s).

DarkHound wrote:unless you're firing Rokkits out of every orifice, you don't have enough.

I'd like to see that

There's something strange mathhammer-wise as regards the deffkoptas and their gear options: on rolls to glance (or better) against AR 10, the rate is 5:9 (0.555) for Twin-Linked Big Shootas versus 25:54 (0.463) for Twin-Linked Rokkits. The numbers switch back to what you would expect for penetrations; that is, 5:18 (0.277) versus 10:27 (0.370), respectively.

I'm not arguing that one should give up the rokkits on the deffkoptas, but a diversified squad of five wouldn't be the worse thing when jumping behind tanks, and it would give the 'koptas more use against lower toughness infantry.

Besides the common Rokkits on my Kanz and Koptas. I take rokkits just about everywhere else I can.

If am going Mech I take rokkits on my trukks. There fast so I can move 12" and pop off a shot and if my dice are hot I can pop a transport right before my Boyz' assault
If am foot-slogging I take all the rokkits I can get my grubby hands on. Understand something I only fire them on turns I can get an assault off right afterwards.

I don't know about your neck of the woods but here everyone here is running Mech and if your relying on your PowerKlaws to do your anti-transport work your not gunna win many games.

Thats why Im a big fan of 3 rokkit buggies a squad. Its what, 105pts for 3 TL-rokkits? USually Ill run 9 and nix the koptas, they work great for me

Lootas for all the light work, Deffrollas, Pks and, Buzzsaws for the bigger stuff. Rokkits just havn't paid off for me. Not to say that I wouldn't try them again. Maybe you're right maybe spaming rokkits is the way to do it. I'm always up to try new tactics, thats why I post on the thread

RustyNails wrote:Maybe you're right maybe spaming rokkits is the way to do it

Lucid wrote:

DarkHound wrote:unless you're firing Rokkits out of every orifice, you don't have enough.

I'd like to see that

Wazdakka Gutsmek 180
Big Mek, KFF, BP, 90
14 Tank Bustas, 3 Bomb Squigs, 225
30 Slugga Boyz, Nob, PK, BP, 3 Rokkits, 250
30 Slugga Boyz, Nob, PK, BP, 3 Rokkits, 250
30 Slugga Boyz, Nob, PK, BP, 3 Rokkits, 250
5 Warbikers, Nob, PK, BP, 165
2 Deffkoptas, TL-Rokkits, 90
1500

And Long Fangs thought they were cool. Psshh, buncha whiny runts wot eat dog food. That is how you run missile launchers.

I'm all for rokkit buggies on a mechanized list. However, don't the deffkoptas have a much higher chance of bouncing behind exposed armor?

Yea they do. Its beacuse the scout and can turbo boost up before anyone moves. If you get first turn they are already RIGHT FECKING THERE!

But I personally dont like koptas. They cost alot more then a rokkit buggy (because why would you risk putting a kopta with JUST TL rokkits in that position? Your going to stick a buzzsaw on them, and thats where the super price comes from) also the buggies in a squad are treated as a squadron (which can be a positive AND a negative depends on what happens) as well as having an armor value. Sure its only 10, but Ive seen av10 be a pain for things to pop, but a KFF works on it with a 4+ save.

Again its a preference thing, I personally like rokkit buggies over a kopta and people will disagree

buggies are cheaper, so get the nod from me. If it is going to be a throw away anti transport unit, might as well be as cheap as possible.

I lean towards Koptas because they are more versatile. Buggies are great at popping transports but suck at stopping heavy armour like Leman Russes and such. Dethkoptas can shoot just as good as buggies but where they shine is getting that Buzzsaw on some juicy 10-11 rear Heavy tank something a buggie can't do. So to me the extra points are worth it.

I wont argue with someone that takes buzzsaw koptas over rokkit buggies because it really is an effective thing to take. My problem is though in taking the buzzsaw, it makes the suicide unit become rather pricey. Specially if you lose initiative and they are just kindda out there in the open. Sure they have a nice inv save but again it comes down to preference. They both do their respective rolls very nicely.

Sides buggies are more useful then just popping transports. Ive KOd a few MC with them.

I tend to keep my Deffkoptas in Reserve that way I can use Out Flank. If anything there is a mental factor against the other player that keeps him on his toes, and doesn't allow him to relax when he thinks that buzzsaws could come flying off one of the sides any turn. It might give him an extra turn or so with his Armour but. I don't run the risk of losing initiative and throwing away 100pts or so.

Wow I RARELY hear people use them in that way. Its always the first turn go go go move. If I used koptas I might keep that one in mind.

KingCracker wrote:Wow I RARELY hear people use them in that way. Its always the first turn go go go move. If I used koptas I might keep that one in mind.

That is pretty much the same tactic that people use for Snikrot- keep him in reserve and scare the opponent to crowd closer to your forces on the table.

Deffkoptas are essentially flying Nobs, sans the awesome upgrade options. I've seriously considered taking full 5 man squads of Deffkoptas along with 3 full squads of Kommandos and having them all outflank. The rest of my army? 6 full squads of Grots to babysit my objectives.

Sincerely,

WarOne

That would be costly, and if soomething went wrong/you rolled badly it could screw ya. BUT I have to say that would be a scary build to face. Very fast and Orks just popping out from everywhere. Hmm.... If I win the lotto or come into some spare cash I might attempt that build. That would really do a number on shooty armies like Tau or IG I bet.

Nice one Warone

Outflanking with koptas is prudent, if you're second-to-go. Why allow them, even having scouted, to get blasted on? I bring a Vietnam of koptas (fifteen) for both my green tide and my speed freaks.

I like outflanking koptas as well. I like taking them in 5's. They are also easier to maneuver. I have never used buzz saws cause they seem expensive for what you get.

I have never used them but in theroy the thing I like about buggies is that they don't suffer from the same LD issues deffkoptas do.

I think maybe rokkits in boys mobs are being underestimated. There are really three big things you would take them for: Rhinos, Chimeras, and Eldar skimmers. It's generally the first two that really bring trouble, in my experience, and I haven't found powerklaws to be sufficient to deal with them. Chimeras and Rhinos are simply too prevalent, there are too many instances where to engage them in close combat you need to move in a direction that you don't want to go; which usually means you just let them be. Eldar skimmers are more costly, but they're fast enough to cause much of the same problems; they don't need to be near you, because they can get where they need to be without risking it.

The other big problem with assaulting vehicles is that you become a hell of a lot more vulnerable to blasts and templates after combat is over, whether you destroy the vehicle or not. I don't want to know how many times I've successfully destroyed a chimera, only to lose half my squad to the heavy flamer on the chimera right next to it. Another big problem is stopping vehicles from contesting objectives, and this is an especially hard one for orks to deal with. Throwing out a few rokkits every turn won't turn the army into some sort of mech-buster, but I think it does help to alleviate the problems associated with it. Then again, I might be finding myself playing against mech armies more than most people (IG are very common where I play).

A good alternative to rokkits, however, may be kannons. If you have the HS slots to spare, you get a pretty good squad of guns in your back field, especially if if you buy ammo runts for them. They're real drawback is range though, and their morale isn't too great.

I will agrea with you Orkeosaurus, I have had the same issues assaulting into vehicals as you. I tend to use my two, five to ten boy loota squads to soften up the armour before I get there hopefully at least taking out some wepons or movement and then moping up with my PKs. With that 48" range I cover most of the table and with my lootas broken into two squads anddon't have to waste a volley of fire on a unit if five lootas can do it awsome, my other five get to pick out something else. If that first volley fails then the second can finish the job for me. (when the dice are working how they are supposed to )

Seems to me this is partly down to your local meta: is there a lot of fast mech needing 6+ to hit in assault or that will kite you the whole game?

2 rokkits is a deff rolla... but against skimmers its the same odds to hit since they can dodge. Again depends on your list and your local meta.

Good Rokkits:

Large Slugga n Choppa Squads
Buggies (no Ld issues, very mobile cover / dangerous terrain once wrecked*)
Deffkoptas (scout / outflank, either 1 with buzz or several just with rokkits)
Killa Kans (durable-ish BS3 PKs and walking cover)

Good Non Rokkits

Lootas (5 or 15, 48" range)

* I post this summary as a means to point out that buggies as mobile terrain is a major feature that I feel was over looked in the discussion - forcing opponents to move around buggies or clamber through dangerous wreckage is a massive advantage. The 4+ cover they can give to infantry is another strong feature.

RustyNails wrote: I'm starting to lose my faith in ork rokkits

I think what you mean is "i'm not using enough rokkits"

but yeah i like them on buggies the best, but throw them on boyz sometimes if i can do 2, if you can trust 1 marine with a rocket you should trust 2 orks with 2 rokkits


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingCracker wrote: I personally like rokkit buggies over a kopta and people will disagree

not me i'm with the buggies (actually trakks)