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Minsc wrote:Ah, in that case Skyth's Tomb Prince comment makes sense: You'd never want a Liche Priest beyond the minimal Hierophant requirement as it's most likely to force a 6-8 casting value whereas a Prince will only force a 3-4. Don't have the book, but I think naked Princes are cheaper to boot. Still, Prince will be better for incantations now.

No, that's not how it works. As of right now, the TK don't work at all. Their book says "they are automatically cast like a bound spell" - but bound spells are no longer automatically cast.

RaW they don't work, at all.

skyth wrote:Sea Guard only get a single attack anyways. However, with 50 Sea Guard (in a 10 wide x 5 rank unit) get everyone to attack with ASF.

the comment about dual weapons is what I was confused about. You don't get the +1a for 2 weapons after the first rank. So spears add the same number of attacks as the front rank having 2 weapons, but mean your models can also have shields.

Durzod wrote:About bound spells. What about the tactic of giving a bound spell item to non-wizards? I can't remember, but I think it said something about only wizards being able to utilize PD. I suppose you COULD give a non-caster a bound spell (kinda a pretty bauble), but it'd be useless.
I do like the plethora of 5pt magic items in the book. I've lost track of the number of times I've been just a few points short on an army list.
I do think it's gonna take a while to adjust to 1 dispel scroll per army. There's a note in the magic item section that says if the item description allows, multiples of a magic item are allowed/ However none of the items in the book have that attribute.
Oh, and War Banner now 35 pts. No more skellies with it, or any other units that can have 25pt banners.

War banner is still 25 if your army book says 25.

Also, there's nothing stopping non-wizards from having bounds. You would just use dice from the pool.

Durzod wrote:About bound spells. What about the tactic of giving a bound spell item to non-wizards? I can't remember, but I think it said something about only wizards being able to utilize PD. I suppose you COULD give a non-caster a bound spell (kinda a pretty bauble), but it'd be useless.

Bound spell items I believe are considered the ones using the power dice. I know for a fact that you do not get your wizard's lvl added to your roll when using a bound spell. So I am pretty sure you can cast a bound spell carried by a non-wizard caster.

Pip wrote:

skyth wrote:Sea Guard only get a single attack anyways. However, with 50 Sea Guard (in a 10 wide x 5 rank unit) get everyone to attack with ASF.

the comment about dual weapons is what I was confused about. You don't get the +1a for 2 weapons after the first rank. So spears add the same number of attacks as the front rank having 2 weapons, but mean your models can also have shields.

I was referring to having bows as well for volley fire. This creates a core choice with a lot of tatical flexibility. Could be a very hard anchor for HE armies, depending on hero/mage support.

If it was just my two cents on Tomb Kings (which you know will be cleared up come the erratas), here's how I would see it working:

1. Assign casting values to Tomb King Spells. Assign a lvl to the caster, i.e. Princes Lvl 1, Kings Lvl 2, etc.
2. Roll your 2d6 for power dice, which would determine the number of dispel dice your opponent gets.
3. Go in your order of casting for the magic phase.
4. Successful spells get modified by the Lvl of the caster.
5. Irresistable spells go off, but are forgotten (no roll on the miscast table as per bound items).

This would bring them in-line with say Warrior Priests or folks who have bound spells. It would also allow for the caster to throw more dice at a spell they really want to go off, as well as answer the question about dispel dice.

That's probably roughly what the errata will say, but again, as of now they don't work at all. And they most likely have a new book coming!!

Knowing GW, I wouldn't count on them being cleared up in the erattas...

Durzod wrote:About bound spells. What about the tactic of giving a bound spell item to non-wizards? I can't remember, but I think it said something about only wizards being able to utilize PD. I suppose you COULD give a non-caster a bound spell (kinda a pretty bauble), but it'd be useless.

Non-wizard can use bound spells. It has a specific note about miscasts with bound spells on units that have them as an "innate ability" or something (like treemen). If I remember correctly, it just fails to go off that turn, and that character can't use any more bound spells that turn. They don't have to roll on the miscast table, and it can be used again next turn. If it's an added item to a character (not an innate ability) then it crumbles to dust and can't be used again, but I also don't think they have to roll on the miscast table.

About the dispel scrolls- I'm glad they're limited to one, I always thought it was rather silly to have so many- basically an item that says the other play just can't do anything if you took 5 of them or so. It's going to be a challenge without them, though! Since some of those big spells are downright scary, and not that difficult to cast imho.

So non-wizards can use PD now? Not what I remember reading, but then that's not so unusual. Maybe it was in the oh-so-cutsie rules fluff they insisted on including (to pad the page count and justify the high price? NOT GW! Hah!)

Thinking about it, having loads of wizards if not very effective now that you only get a fixed amount of pd. Especially if you can only choose from 1 or 2 lores. The only advantages I can see are that you can have more wizards to cast with if you end up failing a spell, and more variety, if you can choose from many lores. And staying power. But you can rule the magic phase with a massive pile of pd/dd from your wizard spam...

Mattbranb wrote:Did anyone else notice how the composition reads, as far as minimum units? You have to have 3 units in addition to a hero/lord choice, but 25% of your army must be core. So in reality you could have 1 core unit that costs 25% of your army and be totally legal. Imagine horde size block of Chaos Warriors - brrrrrr scary.

Naw, that'd cost far too much. Marauders with hand weapons, shield and MoT. 6+ armor save, 5+ ward vs. front attacks (apparenlty shields give a 6+ ward instead of +1 armor save for parry and MoT stacks with ward saves) and a 6+ ward. If I remember correctly they're 5pts each which would make a block of 40 260pts with these upgrades.

Pretty sure Marauders are 5pt vanilla, as I recall doing a point-by-point comparison of them v clanrats shortly after Skaven came out this edition.

One thing I predict is that a lot of the fast cav units without shooty-goodness (See: things other than Pistoliers & Dark Riders) or some nifty special rules (See: Spider Riders and their ignoring of Dangerous Terrain) are going to start getting phased out. Mostly because they can't run flanks as well any more, nor negate them either. Instead, the extra points will probably be spent buffing up pre-existing heavy cavalry, infantry units, or buying small 10 or 15-big units of infantry to run the flanks instead.

zioN wrote:

Lowest game point value:
Foot = ~2500
Coldone = 2520
Dragon = ~3700
Chariot- 2850

So wait, is the 25% thing, EITHER Lords AND/OR Heros? (ie. in 3000pts you could have 750pts of lords) Must have misread that! >.<

From what I gathered with the rumors without having seen the book (I can't afford to drive the 64 miles to go see the book) it goes something like this:
Lords - MAX 25%
Heroes - MAX 25%
Core - MIN 25%
Special - MAX 25%
Rare - MAX 25%

Obviously, you can't go over 100% but I believe that is the current set up. By all means if you've read the book correct me if I'm wrong.

I meant what I read from other posts. What you say seems right.

special is Max 50% I believe.

Ordered book and counters,not bothered about the ruler set- metal would have been better, ill stick with tape for now!

It is indeed...

Up to 25% Lords
Up to 25% Heros.
AT LEAST 25% Core
Up to 50% Special
Up to 25% Rare.

However, remember you must have at least 3 units (not including Characters) and up to 3 repeats of Specials, and up to 2 repeats of Rare.

As for orders? Copy of Collectors and Gamers editions, soon to be mine. Mwahahahahahahaha!

P.S. Selling like hotcakes those two. You want, you order asap.

Why both, MDG...?

I can understand the collectors, if I had the extra $50, I'd get it in a heartbeat, but the gamers edition is just the regular rulebook with all the extra gak they released.

Killjoy00 wrote:That's probably roughly what the errata will say, but again, as of now they don't work at all. And they most likely have a new book coming!!

Really, a new book for TK? That would be fantastic! Maybe some Ogres, Wood Elves and Brets after that. Man, that would complete me.

From what I understand, that's roughly the plan, with maybe High Elves or O&G thrown in. I think it was Harry on warseer that said those are basically the books being worked on right now.

Man, High Elves just got a book. I consider them one of the new armies. I won't clamour too much about this, but I will have some loud coughs that sound like "Chaos Dwarfs". They got robbed.

Chaos Dwarves are on the docket for the Forge World treatment. Full campaign book, model range, etc.

I wouldn't call that "robbed".

Kanluwen wrote:Chaos Dwarves are on the docket for the Forge World treatment. Full campaign book, model range, etc.

I wouldn't call that "robbed".

Except that it's not an actual army they're doing. It's various units spread through out the campaign books that may eventually be compiled into an army.

At least according to the latest from them/

Still--I'd take that over a crummy GW update most of the time.

oh one thing about lizardmen is that diadem of power is now useless.

Anyone taken a gander at the random movement section? It looks like if you have random movement, you move like a spawn (i.e. pick a direction, roll and go). Furthermore, the enemy doesn't get a charge reaction because it's too unpredictable.

My question? How does this impact the Doomwheel? Probably gotta wait for the new FAQ...

Hmm, I only skimmed that section, I'll have to look it over again.

Can anyone confirm if you can take th same spell (such as "Purple Sun" from the Lore of Death) twice in the same list? I'd heard you could only take a spell once, but forgot to look to see if that is the case in the book.

Addressing the above- you generate the "Winds of Magic" no matter what, and to use a bound spell you have to use PD. So yes, a non-wizard can use PD to cast a bound spell (it's not really them casting it- you're casting the bound spell. even if a wizard has it, you won't add their level to the cast like a usual spell- just the PD roll).

Also, the diadem of power for lizzies will probably be errata'ed.

I didn't notice the "no duplicate spell" ruling, but I just listened to the Baddice podcast, and Ben C's saying that's absolutely in. The only possible duplicates are the "signature spells" (i.e. the ones you can default to).

Big question I just realized: How does Scout work now? You - this edition - can't Scout in LoS. Next edition, only way to avoid LoS is pretty much nil. If Scout is unchanged... did it just become practically impossible to scout?

Yes, spells cannot be duplicated in a list. However, if you roll a spell that you already rolled or that someone else in the army rolled already...You can choose your spell.