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Apparently (When did that happen?).

Some guy jumped in with a response that's off-topic and largely has nothing to back it up, it seems.

Anvildude wrote:

Marines, I think, aren't quite as Endurant as SPARTANS. Yes, the Marine might have two hearts and three lungs, but that fused ribcage everyone's so hyped about is actually a major impediment to breathing deeply enough for good oxygenation, meaning they basically need those two hearts just to survive a 5K jog. I exaggerate a little, but you get the point. The human form is already pretty much optimized for endurance, and the SPARTAN stays closer to that optimum than the Marine, though even the SPARTAN would have difficulty keeping up with a baseline Marathon runner, or keep fighting an equal for as long as a baseline boxer or UFC fighter.

the Fused Ribcage doesn't impede lung capacity because the space inside the ribcage is probably enough for lungs at full capacity. or the lungs could expand downwards into the abdominal area. In addition, the marine has 3 lungs so any potential drop in individual output is completely negated.

the 2 hearts allow for greater oxygen flow to the muscles, meaning fatigue takes much longer to set in.

With the addition of a third lung and a host of other organs, the space in the rib cage is actually quite packed. They are able to maintain their capacity because the rib cage isn't a single fused mass, but a series of overlapping plates which can still contract and expand. I maintain however, that it isn't an efficient design compared to that of a normal human.
Their advanced metabolism negates this largely. A SPARTAN is described as being equivalent to an Olympic athlete, I imagine that a Space Marine is the same.

It hurts, because I'm a Halo fanboy to the core, but I'd have to say Marine. The Spartan might possibly have an advantage with agility (not speed, as they seem equal in that, but a Spartan can for example in Reach, Evade) and that they have onboard AI. However the Marine would likely break the Spartan's neck. They're pretty similar. A Spartan is basically an earlier version of a Marine.

A SPARTAN is so far faster, nothing has been provided to counter that with the speed of a marine.

Toastedandy wrote:

Maniac_nmt wrote:Lord of the Rings which is a riff on Norse Mythology and the Bible.

I didnt know it was a rip on Norse Myth.....I thought most of it was inspired by real events while he was fighting ze germans in the trenches.

Those jerkface Germans and their One Ring!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:the Fused Ribcage doesn't impede lung capacity because the space inside the ribcage is probably enough for lungs at full capacity. or the lungs could expand downwards into the abdominal area. In addition, the marine has 3 lungs so any potential drop in individual output is completely negated.

the 2 hearts allow for greater oxygen flow to the muscles, meaning fatigue takes much longer to set in.

Their blood is also far more efficient. Several times in the HH novels it mentions the "chemical reek" that accompanies spilled Astartes blood.

They are certainly much faster than regular humans. Maybe not 5x as a SPARTAN, but 2-3 times certainly. Combine the far greater resilience and endurance (tons of extra organs, what amounts to a healing factor... several times they break a bone, only to set it and have it be serviceable in like 10-15 minutes), as well as pure physical strength (SPARTANS are damn strong, but not that damn strong), and it's not really a contest. SPARTAN make take a few of the matches, but if we were doing an Ultimate Warrior episode, the Marine would take it overall.

A SPARTAN is not just 5 times faster. It's suit amplifies it's unsuited speed by a factor of five, so that's amplifying bullet dodging speed to stupid fast speeds. I am now of the opinion that it's an even match-up, depends on arena and weaponry.

Bullet dodging? Bullcrap. They aren't Neo.

I thought we'd been over this. A SPARTAN was stationary a few feet away from a stationary mech. The mech's shoulder mounted minigun fired at near point blank, the SPARTAN sidestepped the shot, and then swiped the legs from this solid steel or possibly titanium mech weighing in at at least 2 tonnes.

Yeah, they don't dodge bullets, but their certainly faster.

I think SM win's purely based on Weaponry in the end.

Spartan's only weapons that could penetrate an SM would be the sniper rifle (sabot rounds ftw) Rocket launcher (ORLY?) and the Spartan laser (pretty much a fat Las Cannon).

The pistol is however a downscaled bolt pistol (explosive rounds).

If covenant weaponry is allowed though:

Particle beam rifle
Plasma rifle
Fuel Rod gun
Brute Shot

I'm not sure about the spiker...

iproxtaco wrote:I thought we'd been over this. A SPARTAN was stationary a few feet away from a stationary mech. The mech's shoulder mounted minigun fired at near point blank, the SPARTAN sidestepped the shot, and then swiped the legs from this solid steel or possibly titanium mech weighing in at at least 2 tonnes.

That's sidestepping an anticipated motion though, that's not dodging bullets like he's friggin' Keanu Reeves.

And? How much time do you think you have to sidestep a bullet that's at point-blank? Even the instructors and the creator of the project were surprised at the speed, it seemed like the combined enhancements increased their reaction times and speed by a substantial amount more than was predicted.

anyone can dodge an anticipated motion.


He knew when the mech would open fire and got out of the way at the last millisecond.

Yeah? You can dodge bullets as well as side-step missiles and hit them in mid air? Amazing. The SPARTAN dodged a bullet, downplaying it won't take away from that fact.

sorry, but this is clearly an exaggeration.


I don't belive its physically possable for a human shaped object weighing in excess of 1 ton to move that fast under ANY circumstances.

if he had a personal teliporter then we could talk, but as it is this claimed speed is bordering on absurdity.

You do realize that it's fiction, right? SPARTANS are the generic super-soldier, it's just that they have a more explored background. Saying it's absurd sounds like a cop-out to me.


Done your calculations for side-stepping and hitting a missile in mid-air yet?

the side stepping, as was said by someone else earlier, is simply a person screwing around with the aim of the gun.


its fairly difficult to hit a moving target.



if you can prove that MC was in the place, where the bullets ended up, at the exact moment the gun was fired then it might be belivable.

literature often says someone dodged a bullet when in actuality the bullet just missed them because they were moving.

The Fall of Reach page 73 -
"As the guard's gun fired, John sidestepped."

Anything else? I still want to know how your missile test went Grey Templar.

There's also the first MJOLNIR testing, where he dodged a few more, in that one ton of armor.

iproxtaco wrote:The Fall of Reach page 73 -
"As the guard's gun fired, John sidestepped."

Anything else? I still want to know how your missile test went Grey Templar.

how do we know he didn't actually react to the guard's action of pulling the trigger.

that small action would give plenty of time to get out of the way.


once a bullet is fired, it is impossable to get out of its path.

Well, I would guess because it says so in the book. The gun fired, John sidestepped, thus John sidestepped after it fired.
Stop trying to take meanings from something that aren't there to try and argue a point that has been clarified.

Grey Templar wrote:
once a bullet is fired, it is impossable to get out of its path.

It's almost impossible for a human to get out of its path.

When a science fiction book specifically states that he dodged a literal bullet, I'm going to believe it.

While there is the slimmest chance that it could be possable, its more likely lame mary sue writing.

this is one reason I dislike the Halo series, and many other sci-fi in general. they go over the top in making things seems absolutely fantastic.


I prefer more grounded and realistic Sci-fi. yeah, Sci-fi and realistic don't go together very well so this is a realitive comparason.

I like the Halo games for the game. the story sucks.

Its the opposite for me, love the background, games are only fun for the story.

Grey Templar wrote:While there is the slimmest chance that it could be possable, its more likely lame mary sue writing.

this is one reason I dislike the Halo series, and many other sci-fi in general. they go over the top in making things seems absolutely fantastic.


I prefer more grounded and realistic Sci-fi. yeah, Sci-fi and realistic don't go together very well so this is a realitive comparason.

I like the Halo games for the game. the story sucks.

And yet this is a 40k subforum.

Fact is, SPARTANS can, and do, dodge bullets.

Well, it's more that they dodge a gun shot, cause it's not like they can see the bullet.

Soladrin wrote:Well, it's more that they dodge a gun shot, cause it's not like they can see the bullet.

I don't follow.

They're reacting to the shot, but they're actually dodging the bullet.

Gun shot, bullet, is there a difference? It was dodged regardless. There's not a chance because that's not how it's written.

Another possibility is SMs choose not to dodge bullets, much like a heavyweight in boxing they are willing and in 9/10s of your circumstances can take the hit just fine, wherein the SPARTANs are very much like lightweights, they neither hit as hard nor can they take the hits an Astartes can, however speed is on their side, in all honesty I think itd be one of those fights thats so close it'd be won by luck not superior skill.