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Every codex has a unit (or more than one) that just isn't useful. Either it is terrible in it's role, the role it plays just isn't useful in the game, or sometimes it is just so much worse than the competitors for the slot that you just can't see any reason to ever choose it.

For an example I take Codex Orks: Flash Gits; While every other squad in the Ork codex seems to have a purpose and a role Flash gits just don't seem to fit anywhere. Its not that they are costly points wise, they are only slightly higher points than a nob, but there is just nothing that they do that another cheaper squad doesn't do a hundred times better. They are just too random to be marine hunters (blasta is a silly upgrade), aren't that good against tanks (lootas are much better and much cheaper), and have no cc weapon options. About the only thing they are good for is charging straight into light infantry, and lets face it, pretty much every squad in the Ork codex is good at that.

So, thats my Soapbox rant. Anyone want to refute me? Or add their own unit, from another codex?

Swooping Hawks and Shining Spears. Everything they can do something cool can do better.

Chaos Bikes.....whats the point honestly?? the only thing i can see them being any good at is as a throwaway unit of 3 with a meltagun or 2 to destroy and enemy tank or race forward and engage the enemy in close combat early, but i think Rhino mounted CSM can do either job nicely and Raptors can do the assaulting for you!

Also Chaos spawn, dont see the point at all.

Tau: Vespids and Sniper Drones.

Sniper Drones can at least be taken three teams to a slot, but they're not worth the points, and they're competing with XV88's and Hammerheads.

Vespid... what do Vespid have going for them, anyway?

The Vespid build the Tau's drone factories which build their drone army?

Surprised no-one has mentioned Ogryns yet, or Rough Riders.

n0t_u wrote:The Vespid build the Tau's drone factories which build their drone army?

So the most useless unit builds the second most useless unit?
....
Makes sense.


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Cerebrium wrote:Surprised no-one has mentioned Ogryns yet, or Rough Riders.

Ogryns are overpriced for sure, but they do serve a role, and they aren't really competing against much as the IG Elites choices are so poor (except for psyker battle squad)

RR have a role, but would you take them instead of Valks or HH? I think not

However, these are not the worst units in the guard codex, Techpriest anyone?

Whirlwinds, why take a S4 blas maker when you can take a predator?

And chaos chosen, or +3pts per martine they can iniltrate?
really, not stat increases?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whirlwinds, why take a S4 blas maker when you can take a predator?

And chaos chosen, or +3pts per martine they can iniltrate?
really, not stat increases?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rogerio134 wrote:Chaos Bikes.....whats the point honestly?? the only thing i can see them being any good at is as a throwaway unit of 3 with a meltagun or 2 to destroy and enemy tank or race forward and engage the enemy in close combat early, but i think Rhino mounted CSM can do either job nicely and Raptors can do the assaulting for you!

Also Chaos spawn, dont see the point at all.

bike should really be taken in larger squads annd with the IoN they can nasty
Spawn are there cos they're random fun for 40pts, the only other thing in this points range is a rhino

DE: Mandrakes and the Mandrake-esque SC (cant remember the name). The Mandrake models are stunning, its such a shame they are useless.

Chaos: Spawn (obviously) - 40 points for something that has no use whatsoever and gives away a kill point basically for free.

Eldar: Shining Spears - cost a load of points, designed for combat, but will die instantly when attacked back.

Psyker battle squad nuff said

GK terminators.

The fluff says that more terminators are fielded than power armor marines but when the terminators have crappy invul saves, I would rather take power armor marines because I can get more firepower out of them and they are way cheaper so they are easier to fit in my lists.

The most terminators I find I can fit in my lists are around the 20 model mark, but I usually have 30ish power armor marines so it still doesn't quite follow the book.

Not that I'm saying the terminators are bad really, I just find more use out of the power armor grey knights than the TDA ones.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

And chaos chosen, or +3pts per martine they can iniltrate?
really, not stat increases?

They are actually a very useful unit.
You say 3 points for infiltrate. but you can also take multiple Metla guns, power weapons, power fists etc. Infiltrate with an Icon to summon daemons down. Outflank with Melta guns etc. They are very useful.



Spawn unfortunately aren't... They are cool, but they don't do anything.

Nerivant wrote:Tau: Vespids and Sniper Drones.

Sniper Drones can at least be taken three teams to a slot, but they're not worth the points, and they're competing with XV88's and Hammerheads.

Vespid... what do Vespid have going for them, anyway?

I'd say Sniper Teams are faaar better for Tau than Vespid.

One team gets you a BS4 Markerlight and 3 Rail Rifles that pin. Plus they are a stealth unit...

Vespid are fail, in every single way possible the Vespid fail at life. Which sucks because I love the concept of them. I dare say they rank top 5 as worst unit in the game. An assualt weapon unit with 12 inch range, terrible saves, horrible stock leadership, garbage statline, horrible fast attack option, can't CC for crap, god... so bad.

Repentia.

Celestians.

Dominions.

Retributors.

Penitent Engines.

Palatines.

Arco-Flagellants.

Immolators.

Basically, C:WH.

You forgot the 50 point Rhino and Orbital Strike. I'm glad they'll likely not return.

Orbital strike was a neat idea, but the problem was its limitations. 0-1, only if you have an inquisitor, the army that uses them is so short ranged that they have to get danger close to do anything other than huddle up under cover, etc.

ivangterrace wrote:GK terminators.

The fluff says that more terminators are fielded than power armor marines but when the terminators have crappy invul saves, I would rather take power armor marines because I can get more firepower out of them and they are way cheaper so they are easier to fit in my lists.

The most terminators I find I can fit in my lists are around the 20 model mark, but I usually have 30ish power armor marines so it still doesn't quite follow the book.

Not that I'm saying the terminators are bad really, I just find more use out of the power armor grey knights than the TDA ones.

lol wut

someone saying the GKTs are a poor choice.

you may not like them, but they are an efficient unit that can put out alot of firepower and still be decent in an assault(4+ invuln is really good)




for the different codices

GKs: Purgation squads. the ranges on their weapons are low enough that Astral Aim rarely comes into play as being needed. some sort of long ranged anti-tank would have been awsome.

SMs: Captains. they are a horrible choice as they don't do much for your army compared to Librarians and Chaplains. they are only good in Bike armies and only because its the only way to get a bike army, and even then, you could take Kosorro Kahn.

Tau: Drones and Vespids are bad, but Etherials are pointless. Taking a unit that does nothing for your army(ooo an overpriced upgrade for overpriced firewarriors ) and actually can hurt your army when he dies??? lets face it, Furious Charge does nothing to help Fire warriors.

Melissia wrote:Repentia.

Celestians.

Dominions.

Retributors.

Penitent Engines.

Palatines.

Arco-Flagellants.

Immolators.

Basically, C:WH.

Could say because they haven't been updated in ... forever, but even when they first came out in 3rd they kind of sucked.

Melissia wrote:Orbital strike was a neat idea, but the problem was its limitations. 0-1, only if you have an inquisitor, the army that uses them is so short ranged that they have to get danger close to do anything other than huddle up under cover, etc.

Yeah, sort of a round peg into the square whole that is the Heavy Support slot for WH. Still kind of cool that they're the cheapest (real money wise ) slot choice in all of 40k.

I agree if they didn't have the 0-1 limit, weren't keyed onto a terrain piece before the game and you were able to control when they show up I'd likely use 3 of them. Nothing like preparing to trick the enemy onto the terrain for it, then it shows up a turn early so it does nothing all game but a tiny bit of map denial.

ivangterrace wrote:GK terminators.

The fluff says that more terminators are fielded than power armor marines but when the terminators have crappy invul saves, I would rather take power armor marines because I can get more firepower out of them and they are way cheaper so they are easier to fit in my lists.

The most terminators I find I can fit in my lists are around the 20 model mark, but I usually have 30ish power armor marines so it still doesn't quite follow the book.

Not that I'm saying the terminators are bad really, I just find more use out of the power armor grey knights than the TDA ones.

I don't think you're playing GK well then. Terminators with a 4+ invul save that can be taken as troops? Yes please. More firepower? In what way? Terminators can take heavy weapons and keep their assault capability. Power Armoured ones cannot.

Unless the terrain piece is large, like a hill or mountain. In which case you can cover almost the entire map.

Mandrakes: mediocre all around, don't really do much of anything well
Shining Spears: too expensive for what is basically a single-use unit
Swooping Hawks: tank hunting only... and they do that poorly for their cost
Seraphim: incredibly expensive for... 2 bolt pistols? pity the models are so beautiful
Pyrovores: do I really have to explain this one?

Phoenix Lords - all of them
Wraithguard
Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions
Storm Guardians
Rangers and Pathfinders
Vypers
Shining Spears
Swooping Hawks
Dark Reapers
Support Platforms
Fire Prisms
Falcons
Wave Serpents

DarknessEternal wrote:Phoenix Lords - all of them
Wraithguard
Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions
Storm Guardians
Rangers and Pathfinders
Vypers
Shining Spears
Swooping Hawks
Dark Reapers
Support Platforms
Fire Prisms
Falcons
Wave Serpents

lolwut?
Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms? (not sure on FPs ill admit) Wave Serpents are the best transport you have and easily outclass some other transports (speed wise if nothing else)

Tyranids - dropping ymgarls, lictors, pyrovores, deathleaper, venomthrope, doom all in elites where they compete with nids only real ranged anti-tank in zoathropes and hive guard.

IG - making the enginseer worse than a techmarine. Making penal legion too random to use in a tournament. No point to conscripts - send in the next wave should never cost 75 points!

SM - no way to make scout bikes troops. Overcosted predator upgrades. Not enough weapon upgrades for assault marines to make squads worthwhile. LOTD too expensive and not enough upgrades.

Ork - why take a deff dred when you can take cheaper killa kans with BS3.

Eldar: phoenix lords need to have a point for anyone to use an HQ slot on.

The core problem is the meta that changes with each release.

Codex: Ork - 6pt orks invalidated a lot of choices eldar guardians, tau fire warriors, etc.

5th ed: The change in vehicle damage rules upped the value of rhinos and chimeras but nerfed every skimmer race.

Codex: SM, SW , BA the improvement in psykers basically nerfed every army that has no psyker defense. Also the improvement in their psychic defense made the value of psykers go down (lash, fortune, etc.)

But if I have to go with the top of the list it is the chaos spawn for cool looking but worthless. Backed up closely by guardians, firewarriors, kroot, swooping hawks, vanguard vets, sw termies, chaos dreads, wraithlords, wraithguard, all the codex/WH, all the non-DW Codex: DA.

ruminator wrote:
IG - making the enginseer worse than a techmarine. Making penal legion too random to use in a tournament. No point to conscripts - send in the next wave should never cost 75 points!

The horribleness of the Enginseer is only surpassed by the wastefulness of his retinue, 20pts+1 pf attack+bonus to repair vehicles = HB or MM, making a squad about the cost of an LRBT, I really don't see how this didn't raise some questions during playtesting.

ruminator wrote:
Ork - why take a deff dred when you can take cheaper killa kans with BS3.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Chaos Spawn by so much it hurts
I cannot think of a single unit that is simultaenously so useless and so expensive points wise
Its designed as fodder but its not worth fielding because of the goddamn price

Stormtroopers. Not even that bad, although I disagree with AP3 hotshots. I like that they're flexible, I like that they have loads of gear, and I dig the models. But at 17pts per, they're way too spendy for suicide units, and T3 and 4+ saves do not a front line squad make.

I'd make them about 12pts a model, keep their rules, make the hotshots S4 A-, and allow four specials at 10 men.

deff Dreads can get 6A on the charge. Just saying

I also don't think that the pred upgrades are over expensive