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I just dont know why.

Because he's fat, and sassy.

He just doesn't have the right fluff to support him being 40K's big bad evil guy. While extremely unfamiliar with Fantasy, I know that Abaddon's counterpart, Acheron, has brought the Warhammer World to the brink of devastation before. Abaddon has thus far struggled to get the bulk of his forces past Cadia.

Also, in before "He has no arms".

And if you roll a one for has attacks in cc he punches himself in the face Failbaddon

Ironsight wrote:He just doesn't have the right fluff to support him being 40K's big bad evil guy. While extremely unfamiliar with Fantasy, I know that Abaddon's counterpart, Acheron, has brought the Warhammer World to the brink of devastation before. Abaddon has thus far struggled to get the bulk of his forces past Cadia.

Basically this. He's done nothing to justify being considered the 'big bad' of the 40k universe, aside from getting blessed by all four Chaos Gods. His actual actions have not only been met by failure, but failure right at the start. Angron has managed more and he's pretty tactically inept.

Compared to some of the big bads from Warhammer Fantasy though, no 40k big bads have had any success. This is mostly due to Space Marines though - they stop everything. Look at what some of the big bads from Fantasy. Archaon managed to kill the Grand Theogonist of Sigmar and ravage the Empire. While he did get hit on the head by an Orc and retreated, he did serious damage. Vlad managed to march on the Empire and even seige Altdorf, again, leaving the Empire ravaged. Nagash wiped out Nehekara and even whille severely weakened marched on the Empire.

As a setting, 40k is relatively safe from big evil leaders rising up and attacking the Imperium.

-Loki- wrote:
As a setting, 40k is relatively safe from big evil leaders rising up and attacking the Imperium.

I'm wondering if the enemies of the Imperium are just waiting for all of the important parts to rot off and then take the whole shebang in a galactic foreclosure sale.

For Sale:

Galaxy Spanning Empire
3 bedrooms, 2 and half baths
Great Location!
Slight Tyranid Infestation

Because you could use cement to attach his arms, and they won't even stick then :/.

They're not doing a good job of waiting. They're all trying to get a peice, it's just none of them manage to do much. Orks carve out little empires, Tyranids eat a few systems, Eldar fly around being all aloof but wiping out entire systems based on flimsy visions of the future, etc. But none of them really make a dent in the Imperium.

The Warhammer Fantasy world is far smaller and yet they manage to have bigger cataclysmic events more often than the 40k universe loses a minor system in the Imperium.

-Loki- wrote:They're not doing a good job of waiting. They're all trying to get a peice, it's just none of them manage to do much. Orks carve out little empires, Tyranids eat a few systems, Eldar fly around being all aloof but wiping out entire systems based on flimsy visions of the future, etc. But none of them really make a dent in the Imperium.

The Warhammer Fantasy world is far smaller and yet they manage to have bigger cataclysmic events more often than the 40k universe loses a minor system in the Imperium.

Its weird to think about, really. The Imperium could lose an entire sector, billions of lives, and that would still barely register as a blip on their threat meter. If the Empire loses a province or whatever, then it gets real (correct me if I'm wrong, though). I guess the two universes don't parallel exactly.

For one, the Empire is a relatively small country on a single world...

Melissia wrote:For one, the Empire is a relatively small country on a single world...

That was my point. In the Warhammer fluff, a country being ravaged happens. It's a big event, but it happens. In 40k, a setting where humans have settles a vast portion of the galaxy, millions of worlds, GW plays far more conservative, and has the embattled, crumbling Imperium pull off some pretty magnificent defences that... really don't make it look like it's in much trouble at all.

Abaddon, who is meant to be the bad guy, who leads black crusades that ravage the Imperium, can't even get past Cadia. Ghazkull, leading one of the biggest and best equipped Waaaghs in the fluff managed to not quite take a single planet. While they're there still, and it's a huge warzone, Ghazkull is being chased now by Yarrick and Helbrecht. While some planets do die, they're never given much fluff, and the big events that should be having a big note in the fluff tend to only focus on one planet, and the bad guys just don't do much. In the case of Abaddon, his biggest, most wel equipped black crusade managed to make planetfall on Cadia. Woo, go Abaddon.

-Loki- wrote:In the case of Abaddon, his biggest, most wel equipped black crusade managed to make planetfall on Cadia. Woo, go Abaddon.

For Abaddon, that's a pretty gosh-darn big deal.

Jordan wrote:

-Loki- wrote:In the case of Abaddon, his biggest, most wel equipped black crusade managed to make planetfall on Cadia. Woo, go Abaddon.

For Abaddon, that's a pretty gosh-darn big deal.

It is - but you'd expect more from how powerful the 13th black crusade was meant to be. The best Abaddon could throw at the Imperium didn't even really get out of the Eye of Terror. Man, he's so worthy of being feared.

There really are no meaningful villains, as has been said. Abaddon commands a tiny fragment of the only military force more pathetically small and worthless than the loyalist Space Marines (actually, we don't have any numbers for the total number of SoB, and the major orders only account for a number equal to a few chapters, so they might be even less relevant than CSM, though probably still larger than what Abaddon's commanding, although reason would dictate that they number quite a bit more than Space Marines, and there's no figure for the number of minor orders meaning that's technically possible), and can accomplish nothing more than battering himself bloody against the smallest fragment of the Guard and Navy.

The Tyranids have claimed hundreds of billions of lives, and have barely scratched the Imperium, eating a grand total of .02% of its most remote and ill-defended worlds. Craftworlders largely mind their own business, and Orks are too busy fighting themselves to present a unified front, while the Tau are even less of a threat than the Tyranids.

Necrons are ominous, but small, rare, and frequently defective/groggy. Dark Eldar are happy taking a populace here and there, wanting for nothing in terms of territory or resources beyond lives.

Why do we hate abaddon? Let me count the ways...

1) He is leader of the chaos version of ultramarines(both named after colors...how imaginative...at least abaddon has a cooler color?)

2) He's failed to deal any critical blows to the imperium in 13 black crusades. People have died, marines have died, but nothing permanent or something the imperium doesn't have the capability to recover from due to the long period between crusades.

3)Destroyed Horus' body in a childish rage. Ganked his talon.

4)He is supposed to be a great tactician and is able to bring lots of conflicting chaos groups together to fight the imperium, but his model in 4e has no benefit that helps anything but himself.

5)Has the backing of all chaos gods and still lets imperial guard and loyalist marines with no such backing send him running to the Eye with his tail between his legs....13 times.

6)Terrible fashion sense(what the hell is on your head dude?).

7)Portrayed as kind of an ass and a leader of a band of inbred thugs in the novels (soul hunter comes to mind).

I'll think of more here in a bit...

Halsfield wrote:

2) He's failed to deal any critical blows to the imperium in 13 black crusades.

You could have stopped here! 13, count them, 13 black crusades and no significant progress... His annual perfomance reviews must be interesting.
First Captain of the Lunar Wolves to complete failure is probably not the career progress he had in mind...

I know for a fact that all the n00bz with no decent HQs hate Abaddon because he's a b1tch to kill... It's happened to me every time I've gone up against a chaos army, and that includes informal bashes and not even full out games!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, he also singlehandedly created my DIY SM chapter indirectly through stranding them on a random planet.

Abbadon hasn't led all 13 Black Crusades if I remember correctly; some have been led by other warlords, daemon princes etc. In all I think he's led 10?

but yeah, he fails at making a dent in the Imperium really. Perhaps in 6e Games Workshop may advance the fluff so that he actually does something?

MA.

If mankind really wanted to, they could totally dominate his puny crusade any day

In the HH Books Abbadon seems like he should be quite bad ass, maybe too much time in the warp broke him... Or perhaps he's feeding the dwellers within the immaterium with his boundless frustration and rage.

Also, Abaddon may have united a lot of CSM under his banner but there are still hundreds of thousands of members from renegades and even the origional legions who operate seperately.

If, somehow, he could unite these forces, the Imperium would be extremely tested. (I can dream. )

MA.

Halsfield wrote:
6)Terrible fashion sense(what the hell is on your head dude?).

This!

Everyone hates Abbadon for the gigantic skull scrunchie he wears!

In fairness not all of his crusades were trying to get past Cadia...
Several managed their objectives.
Admittedly this doesn't help the rest...

Nuff said.
He's a total butthole on his high chair of "HURR IM SO GODLEH" who has no comprehension of logistics apparently.

guys guys guys how can we forget that what makes him worthless, i mean really worthless is his tiny pecker? how can anyone forget such a fact? besides that yes id agree his hair, his inability to dominate 10 or so times, his stealing of horus's talons, his hair, the fact if he rolls a one his deamon weapon poops on him, his obsession with black, his hair, that fact that hes blessed 4 the gods for no good reason, the fact he hasnt been elevated to deamon prince when many others have done less to become them, his mini is stupid, his hair, his lack of forsight, his lack of a good stylist, his inability to stop fabius bile from stealing horus's body and his hair.......i think i got everything

Noah da guardsmen wrote:I just dont know why.

Because he's a L_O_S_E_R

"Americans will not tolerate losing. The very thought is hateful to them." Geoprge C. Scott pretending he's some army general guy...

The thing that is always overlooked is that when these Black Crusades crop up?

They are no joke. The Imperium devotes a huge amount of resources to counter them. There were entire Chapters of Astartes that left their current warzones to move to Cadia.

That is pretty much unheard of.

With few exeptions, the Player using is usaly more anoying that him.

Chaos put all their eggs in one basket, only to find out the basket was full of holes, and now there is egg all over the floor.

Or something.

Kanluwen wrote:The thing that is always overlooked is that when these Black Crusades crop up?

They are no joke. The Imperium devotes a huge amount of resources to counter them. There were entire Chapters of Astartes that left their current warzones to move to Cadia.

That is pretty much unheard of.

Kan is spot on right here.

Don't downplay his failures as him being a terrible villian. The reason he lost was due to the fact the Imperium threw massive resources at him. With the Cadian Gate all but a wreckage of its formoer might, their is a very real possibility Abaddon will break through in his next crusade and become the evil baddie so many want him to be.